What moves Bitcoin?

[Fermion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolau As the saying goes "It works until it doesn't." The official line is: "Backed by the full faith and credit of the USA." As long as you believe it, it works. YMMV

The US dollar is backed by a very large military, trillions of dollars in government land, and the general way of life in the USA. Life changes in a major way for everyone if the dollar collapses, but if bitcoin collapses only a few speculators lose out.

[yakers]

And the note “valid Legal tender”, must be accepted for business transactions and the ONLY way to pay taxes

[captain3d]

Too big to fail comes to mind for cash. And I think you can see some of that as Bitcoin gets bigger with more serious people being invested it its success.

[Onward]

There's something happenin' here. What it is ain't exactly clear.

[captain3d]

It is somewhere between a Gold like hedge against inflation (finite number of Bitcoin) and a disruptive technology (global currency and easy transfers)

[dixonge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain3d Never mind explaining bitcoin. Can someone explain what makes cash valuable? I have done lots of research trying to find out why the paper has value. But as far as I can tell it is backed by nothing and has no limit on how much can be created. What kind of greater fool would accept my paper? Oh well.

Like the song says...


"greenback, greenback dollar bill
Just a little piece of paper, coated with chlorophyll."

[captain3d]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dixonge Like the song says... "greenback, greenback dollar bill Just a little piece of paper, coated with chlorophyll."

A quick search suggests that single would have cost about $1 when release in 1957.

1957 $1 = 2021 $9.31

A good example in many ways. On the other hand I just listened to it on YouTube for free. Are we winning?

[cj1717]

I have been investing in Cryptocurrency this year and am now playing with "House Money" due to success.

I do NOT buy actual bitcoin, but invest in the fund BITW.

I am very happy with this fund and expect to continue.

Another reason for its success is the acceptance and endorsement of cryptocurrency by: Elon Musk, Paypal, Mastercard and now banking instittutions.

Many Gold Bugs are converting to Crypto as a better repository for wealth.

[captain3d]

Crypto 20 is another index fund as a token to be bought on crypto exchanges etc.

https://crypto20.com/en/
Autonomous 'token-as-a-fund'.
In 2017, our team successfully pioneered the first tokenized crypto-only index fund, which used the seed funding to buy the underlying crypto assets. There are no broker fees, no exit fees, no minimum investment and full control over your assets. Full blockchain transparency.

[yakers]

Crypto in tax protected or taxable account? How do you report sales gains? Does TurboTax download directly?

[CardsFan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yakers Crypto in tax protected or taxable account? How do you report sales gains? Does TurboTax download directly?

I do not own any Crypto, but just walked through TT for a first look.

With all the changes recently I did the full Q/A session.

There is a place where they ask if you own any Crypto's. I don't, so I did not go further.

Just FYI.

[mrfeh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yakers Crypto in tax protected or taxable account? How do you report sales gains? Does TurboTax download directly?

You report capital gains/losses just as you would for a stock transaction.

TT does not import this data. You need to keep track of this yourself, although there are web sites that can assist in the task.

[frayne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggy29 I will be honest. I understand technology. I have a degree in computer science and worked in high tech for 26 years. But I do not understand how bitcoin derives any intrinsic value. Now I know that the ability to "print money" like the US government has is not intrinsic value, but I at least understand credit and the ability of a solvent government to guarantee that debt. I can not understand cryptocurrency. What guarantees the value of bitcoin? I don't get it.

Well said !

[RVplusDog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVplusDog I wouldn’t be surprised to see BTC hit 50k within the next 4 weeks or so. It seems to be more stable as the big companies buy and hold. Square, PayPal, Microstrategy, etc. I expect more corporations to add it to their balance sheets following in MSTR’s now-published open source documentation. Also, Visa’s planned cryptocurrency project/s should increase stability & acceptance.

Hmmm. Guess I was too conservative... so maybe 60k by EOM, 100k by EOY.

I have small positions in miners (MARA, RIOT), trusts (GBTC, may choose others), and associated companies (MSTR, TSLA, SQ, PYPL, etc). I’ll try to sell some more far OTM calls to continue lowering my net costs for these, and I expect some assignments as prices fluctuate beyond my expectations. Not sure how long I’ll play these: I expect the miners to continue diversification into other cryptos and I’d like to see MSTR move into blockchain tech as an adjunct to its AI offerings.

[PoorOldCountryBoy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by imoldernu Just one month ago, the price was $10,000.... Today Less than $7,000. There must be reasons. Seriously... in Vegas there is the "house".that eventually accounts for odds and limits. Thoughts? Sorry... missed the current thread on the subject. OK to delete.

Supply and demand.



Next!

[indiajust]

Options exchanges are starting to proliferate. CME still has the biggest book, but that could change. Canadian laws are more future forward, both for crypto and drugs. So BTCC is now a valid ETF in Canada, perhaps a lower cost approach and more secure than MSTR. GBTC is best for prof investors 1M+ so that you can buy directly and sell 6 months later to reap the bid/ask spread (almost 25% markup!)

[indiajust]

There is no guarantee of any value. Not for gold, not for fiat currency, and certainly not for crypto. Up until Roosevelt there was a connected path between silver/gold the dollar and by extension to most of the rest of the worlds paper. Progressive dreams of empire broke constitutional money and created the third US central bank. US nationalized the banking system and shifted banking risk from bank shareholders to taxpayers. Bretton Woods nationalized gold holdings. Which Nixon defaulted on. Since then, the US dollar has been roughly speaking a petrodollar, backed by the empires constraint that all OPEC energy trading to take place in USD. Low cost oil and gas via fracking broke that market, in combination with China refusing to use dollars to buy US government debt. Which has spread planet-wide now, since no one has bought a Tbill since 2014 other than the Fed.

The fundamental problem is Triffin's dilemma. It impoverishes the working class while rewarding the political class, undermining all empires from the bottom. Because the world is using our money. Worth reading about.

A separation of currency and state (a return to constitutional money) would reverse Triffins Dilemma (combined with liberal trade laws, low tariffs) allow ordinary folks to return to wealth building activity that can't be co-opted by DC.

Ironically, crypto is good for the common man, and undermines the centralized command/control of the DC war machine. All empires have gone down the currency destruction path. Crypto might provide a more graceful, less fatal, glide path for this empire. Might. We shall see.

[jurgs01]

Quote:

Originally Posted by indiajust There is no guarantee of any value. Not for gold, not for fiat currency, and certainly not for crypto. Up until Roosevelt there was a connected path between silver/gold the dollar and by extension to most of the rest of the worlds paper. Progressive dreams of empire broke constitutional money and created the third US central bank. US nationalized the banking system and shifted banking risk from bank shareholders to taxpayers. Bretton Woods nationalized gold holdings. Which Nixon defaulted on. Since then, the US dollar has been roughly speaking a petrodollar, backed by the empires constraint that all OPEC energy trading to take place in USD. Low cost oil and gas via fracking broke that market, in combination with China refusing to use dollars to buy US government debt. Which has spread planet-wide now, since no one has bought a Tbill since 2014 other than the Fed. The fundamental problem is Triffin's dilemma. It impoverishes the working class while rewarding the political class, undermining all empires from the bottom. Because the world is using our money. Worth reading about. A separation of currency and state (a return to constitutional money) would reverse Triffins Dilemma (combined with liberal trade laws, low tariffs) allow ordinary folks to return to wealth building activity that can't be co-opted by DC. Ironically, crypto is good for the common man, and undermines the centralized command/control of the DC war machine. All empires have gone down the currency destruction path. Crypto might provide a more graceful, less fatal, glide path for this empire. Might. We shall see.

Nice post!

[AtlasShrugged]

Charlie Munger said this about Bitcoin yesterday:

"Bitcoin reminds me of what Oscar Wilde said about fox hunting. He said it was the pursuit of the uneatable by the unspeakable.”

[captain3d]

I think they said the same thing at $9000. But it is not their thing I would not expect them to be interested in the same way they were not interested in tech stocks.