What to do with gold coins

[Poopycat]

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Originally Posted by SecondCor521 Whether gold and/or gold coins are collectibles or not is defined by the IRS here: https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans...%20Collectible OP's coins may be excluded based on 26 USC 408(m)(3)(A). The capital gains rate on collectibles may be up to 28%. It gets sorted in the capital gains worksheets. All capital assets - gold, houses, coins, stocks - get a step up in value to FMV as of the date of death. Selling a house for a capital gain, even after paying taxes, would still leave you with more money. Usually a sale shortly after inheritance doesn't result in a capital gain because selling costs can be used to produce a capital loss (which may or may not be deductible). If the cost basis in the coins is higher than FMV, it's probably better to sell and realize the loss, or gift and let the seller have a dual cost basis. If the cost basis is below FMV, usually it's better to inherit them in order to get the step up in basis and escape the taxation on any unrealized gains through death.

My gosh, you are all so knowledgeable it’s scary! I knew I’d get some good answers here.

My dad passed away in 2010. He had a trust so his assets were passed onto me. I’ll have to look at the details of the trust because I don’t know whether the coins were included in the trust. On a separate note, he also left me (well, my parents left me…it was passed on from my maternal grandfather) mineral rights on some land in Montana and I’m going to have to hire an attorney because I’m worried these rights may not have been included properly in the trust either. I think they were but I’ve gotten quite a few unsolicited offers to buy these rights and I need to make sure I have the proper paperwork together in case I ever decide to sell.

My safe deposit box is in TX so maybe I’ll look for a coin show down there and plan to head down one weekend. Goldline used to be willing to buy the coins back for a premium but I’m sure that premium would be big. I’m just excited that maybe these coins are actually worth something! Goldline had so many Consumer Reports issues that I thought maybe the coins were bogus.

[Poopycat]

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Originally Posted by Car-Guy If they are more than a year old and look like this then they are probably American Gold Eagles minted since 1986... (22 k gold) The reverse design changed in 21 or 22 (IIRC). Regardless, the value is about ~$1875 per 1oz coin on today's market. Any reputable coin dealer should give you that... Easy to sell at coin shows for that too. You can shop them around at a coin show or at coin dealers but they are all going to pay the same (bullion prices + a little for it being a coin) which change slightly day to day. Proof Gold Eagles will be worth a little more but 99% of Gold coin are regular issue. (not proofs) BTW, American Gold Eagles are not "pure gold" since they have other elements in them to make them harder so they won't scratch/bend or otherwise damage so easily. Regardless, if it says 1 oz on the coin, it has 1 full oz of Gold plus a small amount of the other elements to make them harder..

They look like the ones in the picture, with a date stamp of 2008 if I remember correctly.

[Samsung4321]

I have sold bullion coins in USA one at a time for cash. No identification requested and no records kept.

I could find no requirement to declare gold of any value at USA Customs web site, unlike cash where amount $10,000+ must be declared.

Passing through USA Customs, I asked if I should declare gold and they did not know so I did not and carried various one once coins valued ~$9,000.

Seems gold has a special, silent, place in USA Law.

There seems to be a legitimate gold buyer in every noteworthy USA town willing to buy. Some check just the appearance. Some check tone when hit, weight, size, density, electrical resistivity, XRay fluorescence, ...

Tungsten has exactly the same density a gold but difference electrical resistivity etc.

Beware dodgy dealers (rare) switching for a fake and refusing to buy.

I carry a few gold coins in case my Australian based credit cards cease working.

[Jerry1]

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Originally Posted by Samsung4321 I carry a few gold coins in case my Australian based credit cards cease working.

Interesting. Never thought of carrying some gold. Actually, a pretty easy way to carry a good amount of money in a very small package. Not completely liquid, but as you said, in most cities, there will be a pretty easy way to sell gold.

[sengsational]

With the $10K or more worth of gold when leaving the country...I think that needs to be investigated a bit more.

[CRLLS]

While the import of gold to the USA in any form has no duty, it must be declared on form FinCEN Form 105 if all "currency" exceeds 10,000 value. At least according to CBP.

see:

https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Artic...%20%2410%2C000.

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FinCEN definition of currency: The coin and paper money of the United States or any other country that is (1) designated as legal tender and that (2) circulates and (3) is customarily accepted as a medium of exchange in the country of issuance.

It is a bit conflicting when it says:

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Gold Bullion is not a monetary instrument for purposes of this requirement, but still must be declared upon entry.

The form itself says nothing about bullion. I think there is no question about having to declare monetary coins of any country. (>$10,000) Whether the face value of the coins or the gold content value is reported on that form might be a arguable point that might require some legal defense.

[Fermion]

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Originally Posted by folivier About 12 or 13 years ago I bought 8 Maple Leafs through my broker so there was no premium paid. I still have them and give one to each of my grandchildren at their first birthday. Mostly as a novelty but when they are adults hopefully they'll think fondly of their old pawpaw. If they haven't sold them....

I have some Maples also. Very pretty (very soft too, since they are pure gold!).

I like gold. I'd love to have more. I did keep the paperwork for cost basis since they have increased quite a bit in value.

[Car-Guy]

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Originally Posted by SecondCor521 Questions related to this thread but I am not the OP:

My opinions below.

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Originally Posted by SecondCor521 1. Assuming a PCGS graded $50 Buffalo 1oz gold proof coin, where/how is easiest to sell at or near PCGS price list price?

"Extremely" easy to sell most any coins at a coin show but good luck getting PCGS quoted prices... PCGS price lists are usually overvalued what you'll get dealer to pay... "Maybe" an individual would, but not a dealer. Get a copy of the latest Greysheet if you want more realistic pricing.

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Originally Posted by SecondCor521 2. I suspect the coin may still be in OGP. Does PCGS remove it from OGP when grading? (Does it matter?)

Typically yes it's removed and no it doesn't matter to most collectors... What does matter if it's graded by PCGS or NGC and by CAC. (In other words, it should be graded by PCGS or NGC and with a CAC sticker.) Note, don't get regular issue bullion coins graded, it's a waste of time and money. Proofs, maybe...

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Originally Posted by SecondCor521 3. For tax purposes, are they collectibles or not?

Proofs are collectables, IMO.

[Spock]

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Originally Posted by Poopycat My gosh, you are all so knowledgeable it’s scary! I knew I’d get some good answers here. My dad passed away in 2010. He had a trust so his assets were passed onto me. I’ll have to look at the details of the trust because I don’t know whether the coins were included in the trust. On a separate note, he also left me (well, my parents left me…it was passed on from my maternal grandfather) mineral rights on some land in Montana and I’m going to have to hire an attorney because I’m worried these rights may not have been included properly in the trust either. I think they were but I’ve gotten quite a few unsolicited offers to buy these rights and I need to make sure I have the proper paperwork together in case I ever decide to sell. My safe deposit box is in TX so maybe I’ll look for a coin show down there and plan to head down one weekend. Goldline used to be willing to buy the coins back for a premium but I’m sure that premium would be big. I’m just excited that maybe these coins are actually worth something! Goldline had so many Consumer Reports issues that I thought maybe the coins were bogus.

If you want to move the whole pile vs. onesie-twosie at a coin show another option is Apmex in Oklahoma City. You can either ship (registered USPS, but they have an insured shipment program) to them or schedule a face-to-face appointment. I've only bought from them so I can't comment on the prices they offer... but the drive might be worth it to get everything done at once vs. vetting multiple buyers.

[Car-Guy]

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Originally Posted by Poopycat They look like the ones in the picture, with a date stamp of 2008 if I remember correctly.

Dates on regular issue American Gold bullion coins from 1986 until now, don't matter. All the same value. There are a few ASE dates (America Silver Eagles) that do carry a premium over their bullion value.

[Dash man]

This link has information on IRS reporting requirements for a gold dealer I’ve purchased some gold from in the past:

https://www.texmetals.com/sell-gold-coins

[Spock]

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Originally Posted by Dash man This link has information on IRS reporting requirements for a gold dealer I’ve purchased some gold from in the past: https://www.texmetals.com/sell-gold-coins

And note that their "sell to us" price on American Gold Eagles is currently spot+15%.
Edit to add: It is now "call for bid" on 1oz coins.

[Trailwalker]

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Originally Posted by Dash man This link has information on IRS reporting requirements for a gold dealer I’ve purchased some gold from in the past: https://www.texmetals.com/sell-gold-coins

That's interesting. It says that the reporting requirements don't apply to Austrian coins.

[ncbill]

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Originally Posted by Jerry1 Interesting. Never thought of carrying some gold. Actually, a pretty easy way to carry a good amount of money in a very small package. Not completely liquid, but as you said, in most cities, there will be a pretty easy way to sell gold.

I always wanted that 'survival kit' from one of the James Bond films.

IIRC, it included FIFTY gold sovereigns!

[SecondCor521]

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Originally Posted by Car-Guy My opinions below. "Extremely" easy to sell most any coins at a coin show but good luck getting PCGS quoted prices... PCGS price lists are usually overvalued what you'll get dealer to pay... "Maybe" an individual would, but not a dealer. Get a copy of the latest Greysheet if you want more realistic pricing. Typically yes it's removed and no it doesn't matter to most collectors... What does matter if it's graded by PCGS or NGC and by CAC. (In other words, it should be graded by PCGS or NGC and with a CAC sticker.) Note, don't get regular issue bullion coins graded, it's a waste of time and money. Proofs, maybe... Proofs are collectables, IMO.

Thanks for the answers, they were very helpful.

I assume we could expect approximately Graysheet wholesale at a coin show?

It appears CAC doesn't put their stickers on, for example, a 2020 $50 1oz gold buffalo proof.

[prudent_one]

Graysheet wholesale is a reasonable expectation but many dealers just go by a % above/below spot price so the price can change daily.

Also no one will care about CAC on a modern bullion coin.

[SecondCor521]

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Originally Posted by prudent_one Graysheet wholesale is a reasonable expectation but many dealers just go by a % above/below spot price so the price can change daily.

Even for proofs?

[Car-Guy]

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Originally Posted by SecondCor521 Thanks for the answers, they were very helpful. I assume we could expect approximately Graysheet wholesale at a coin show? It appears CAC doesn't put their stickers on, for example, a 2020 $50 1oz gold buffalo proof.

The Greysheets will show the bid and ask prices. For collectables you can/should get bid (or very close to it). Even at a coin show it "pays" to shop around. For really rare coins, you can usually get well over bid... It's a game. For common bullion, "these days" you get a little over spot which changes daily. Proof Gold will bring a premium which the Greysheet should indicate. (I haven't looked in a while)

I don't think CAC stickers common certified bullion coins, but they may do proofs (I don't recall, but probably not worth ($) it anyway) They are getting picky on what they sticker these days.

[SecondCor521]

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Originally Posted by Car-Guy The Greysheets will show the bid and ask prices. For collectables you can/should get bid (or very close to it). Even at a coin show it "pays" to shop around. For really rare coins, you can usually get well over bid... It's a game. For common bullion, "these days" you get a little over spot which changes daily. Proof Gold will bring a premium which the Greysheet should indicate. (I haven't looked in a while) I don't think CAC stickers common bullion, but they may do proofs (I don't recall, but probably not worth it anyway for Gold proofs) They are picky.

Thanks.

The Greysheet printout I got for the particular coins I'm talking about (2020 1oz gold buffalo proofs) lists $3650 wholesale and $4650 retail, with a number of "Heritage Auction" sales prices at that retail number.

Since there's a $1K difference (which I'm assuming is just the bid/ask spread), I want to make sure expecting a price of $3650 from a dealer would be about right.

At this point, I'm figuring it'd probably be good to go to a nearby coin show and just shop them around. I can probably get a cheap flight to Las Vegas, and I bet they have coin shows there from time to time.

[Car-Guy]

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Originally Posted by SecondCor521 Thanks. The Greysheet printout I got for the particular coins I'm talking about (2020 1oz gold buffalo proofs) lists $3650 wholesale and $4650 retail, with a number of "Heritage Auction" sales prices at that retail number. Since there's a $1K difference (which I'm assuming is just the bid/ask spread), I want to make sure expecting a price of $3650 from a dealer would be about right. At this point, I'm figuring it'd probably be good to go to a nearby coin show and just shop them around. I can probably get a cheap flight to Las Vegas, and I bet they have coin shows there from time to time.

I haven't kept up with modern Gold Proof prices.. (Those are crazy numbers but possible I guess.) As far as coins shows, they are everywhere (at least in Texas.) Usually one or two a week...


This may help you find a local coin show. https://www.coinshows.com