Chase Sapphire card vs 2% cash back?

[Sunset]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckanut Chase just (8/16) changed some of the details on the Preferred and Reserved cards. Here's the news on the Preferred card. Yearly fees remain the same As a new Preferred card holder I am not sure how the changes will affect me. The $50 hotel room rebate looks like it will take the edge off that $95 yearly fee. And I suppose the 10% points bonus may help a bit. But, I am still basically a cash-back kind of guy. Show me the money! I am always suspicious that they will devalue the points and I will be a net looser. Time will tell. For now I hope to have 100,000 points to blow on travel to somewhere. ...

Until September sometime, you can pay yourself back for all your grocery shopping at the Preferred redemption rate of 1.25% (equal to travel).

Redeem as much grocery shopping purchases as you can and it is cash back !
It's valid on any grocery purchase in the past 90 days. (there are some other categories too, but for me groceries is something I always buy).

I transferred in 10K of points from my Freedom card, and then redeemed around 15K of total points to pay myself back for groceries (~$180), while I wait for my 100K spending to be achieved.

[BlueberryPie]

Yeah I have a Capital One Venture and they still use ponts. You get 200 points for dollars, and you can use the points for statement credit at 1$/points, so "true" 2%. There still is a catch that only travel expenses are eligible for statement credit. So if you don't have any travel expenses then you can't get statement credit back, but I have enough expenses that qualify that i never had to worry about it.
The nice thing is that you don't have to be proactive about it, no buying through their site, etc... And since you can apply partial credit, it doesn't matter if you don't have enough points to cover the full purchase.

They still love to play games with points, for example you can spend points at Amazon, but the rate is not $1/100 points, so buying on Amazon is less that 2% back, although it has no travel-related limitations.

[JP.mpls]

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Originally Posted by The Cosmic Avenger I opened the Fidelity Visa earlier this year, and I have yet to have any charge not get the 2% cash back. They use "points" because they do offer other ways to redeem it, but I have it set to deposit the cash in the Fidelity checking account that I use to pay that card anyway. (I would prefer a statement credit, but this doesn't really require any extra work anyway.) Where did you see the categories?

Cosmic,
Thanks for your comments.
The catagories were in their example in the literature that came with the card.
I'm assuming there are limits per the different catagories, or they would just say 2% on all purchases.
The fact that you are seeing 2% on all your charges is a good sign that the limits are set fairly high.
You have me thinking about using the card, and observe how I do with the rewards.
JP

[BlueberryPie]

I'm thinking about getting a Wells Fargo Active Cash card: 2% cash back, no categories it upfront planning, 0% annual fee and $200 sign up bonus after spending $1K over 3 months

The only perk of interest is that it has cell phone protection up to $600 for cell phone loss damage if you use it to pay your bill.

I've almost never used any of the perks on travel credit cards, etc... I just don't think about them, or they don't apply, so maybe this is the straightforward card for me.

[Markola]

^^^^ That new 2% WF, no-fee Visa seems a good card. We have the Citi Double Cash Back (2%) MasterCard already but I might switch to the WF one since we bank at WF and it’s nice to have everything in one place. ….Or maybe someone will come out with a 3% no fee card next, minus all the only-in-certain-categories BS.”

[The Cosmic Avenger]

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Originally Posted by JP.mpls Cosmic, Thanks for your comments. The catagories were in their example in the literature that came with the card. I'm assuming there are limits per the different catagories, or they would just say 2% on all purchases. The fact that you are seeing 2% on all your charges is a good sign that the limits are set fairly high. You have me thinking about using the card, and observe how I do with the rewards. JP

Thanks for pointing me towards the mailing, I usually try to find it online or send a message to their customer service, although with Elan (who is the issuing bank for the Fidelity Rewards Visa), the service has definitely been lacking.
Anyway, mine said this: "The number of points that may accumulate in any monthly billing cycle is unlimited."

[Scuba]

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Originally Posted by The Cosmic Avenger Thanks for pointing me towards the mailing, I usually try to find it online or send a message to their customer service, although with Elan (who is the issuing bank for the Fidelity Rewards Visa), the service has definitely been lacking. Anyway, mine said this: "The number of points that may accumulate in any monthly billing cycle is unlimited."

I’ve been using the Fidelity 2% cash back card for years and have never seen any expenditure not qualify for the 2% back. It’s automatically deposited to our checking account every month. Very convenient and has saved us thousands of dollars.

[BlueberryPie]

I've decided that I don't like the Sapphire limitations on earning 2x or more. Most of my statement seems to show 1x points per dollar. I sure don't want to go through their portal for regular purchases, so it seems the only category I get 2x is restaurants, and I don't eat out much. A local cidery that also serves food was classified as "groceries" rather than restaurant, so I didn't even get 2x points for going out there.
It claims "select streaming services" get you 3x points but neither Sling nor NetFlix seem to qualify.
So I will NOT get 2+ points per dollar on Venture on average based on my usage

As discussed above, the value of points is variable depending how you use it. I priced a 2 weeks trip to Paris in January to help compare. the trip price is around $550 depending on exact flights and dates. Different ways to pay for it with points:

- 100pts = $1 for statement credit, so need 55K points, so charge $55K on the card to get the points. (they currently have a special on statement credit where it's $1.25 per 0100 pts, but I'm ignoring special offers, they likely will never be at the time I need them)
- 100pts = $1.25 credit for travel purchased through Chase, so the $550 ticket would only cost $44K points or $44K dollars charged on the card.
- 1pts = 1 United Mile. Using award travel with United would be $60K points, or charging $66K on the card, the least attractive deal for this particular trip.


My Capital One Venture seems to consistently get me 2% back, no categories, no questions asked. Statement credit is 100 points = $1, like Chase, but you can only get credit on travel which is a limitation if you don't travel much. For that same trip to France:

- Buy directly from United for $550, use $55K points on the next statement, or $55K/2 = $27.5K spent on the card, still only $63% of what I would have to charge on the Chase card to pay for the same trip.

My Venture is also cheaper ($59/year vs $95/year for the Sapphire), I think I'm grandfathered in from a time it was cheaper?

So for me at least, the sapphire doesn't make sense, without putting in work to figure out how to maximize the rewards, I will get 1.25% back, vs a true 2% back.

Credit Cards.com seems to agree with a similar analysis:
https://www.creditcards.com/credit-c...l-one-venture/

The next thing I need to look at is whether I get my $59/year worth with the Venture vs going to a true no-fee 2% card like the Citi or Weels Fargo (which has a $200 signup bonus atm, but that's for another post

[Chuckanut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueberryPie I've decided that I don't like the Sapphire limitations on earning 2x or more. Most of my statement seems to show 1x points per dollar. I sure don't want to go through their portal for regular purchases, so it seems the only category I get 2x is restaurants, and I don't eat out much. A local cidery that also serves food was classified as "groceries" rather than restaurant, so I didn't even get 2x points for going out there. It claims "select streaming services" get you 3x points but neither Sling nor NetFlix seem to qualify. So I will NOT get 2+ points per dollar on Venture on average based on my usage As discussed above, the value of points is variable depending how you use it. I priced a 2 weeks trip to Paris in January to help compare. the trip price is around $550 depending on exact flights and dates. Different ways to pay for it with points:

Let me play the Devil's Advocate for a moment.

Have you considered things like the trip insurance that comes with the Preferred card in your evaluation? And the Primary auto rental insurance? What value do they have to you?

Even though I have the card, like you I am skeptical that it will beat out my combination of cards that gives me 5% on certain categories, 3% on travel, 4% on gasoline and 2% on everything else. Plus, that $95 dollar fee. Next year I won't have 100,000 points to offset it. That fee just keeps buggin me. But, I plan to give it a year Alas, thanks to Delta, a year may not be enough.

[BlueberryPie]

I have lesser(?) benefits on the Venture card, like secondary (no primary) auto insurance and extended warranty that i have never used once (lat time i rented a car in Ireland and it was excluded from the Audi coverage). Venture has a $100 towards Clear at the airport and i have never taken advantage of it. I guess I am lazy and benefits need to be "passive" for me to truly take advantage, which is why I like 2% without categories.
I have most of the coming year to decide if the Sapphire benefits pay back for themselves if i think of taking advantage of them, but the loss of the extra 1% is unlikely to offset the benefits with the Venture.

I'm already getting 5% on Amazon through my Prime visa card, again passive/lazy since any amazon purchase defaults to it.

[Scuba]

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Originally Posted by BlueberryPie I have lesser(?) benefits on the Venture card, like secondary (no primary) auto insurance and extended warranty that i have never used once (lat time i rented a car in Ireland and it was excluded from the Audi coverage). Venture has a $100 towards Clear at the airport and i have never taken advantage of it. I guess I am lazy and benefits need to be "passive" for me to truly take advantage, which is why I like 2% without categories. I have most of the coming year to decide if the Sapphire benefits pay back for themselves if i think of taking advantage of them, but the loss of the extra 1% is unlikely to offset the benefits with the Venture. I'm already getting 5% on Amazon through my Prime visa card, again passive/lazy since any amazon purchase defaults to it.

I think I’m like you in this regard. With the Elan Fidelity VISA, I get 2% back on everything and the money automatically appears in my checking account each month. I got this Chase Sapphire card because of the great bonus to sign up, but now I’m not even sure how to take advantage of it. I wish I could just tell them I want the $1,250 cash and be done with it. It may have other great benefits but I’m not sure what I’d really use. We do travel and dine out a lot so before I cancel, I need to make it a priority to read up on the details and figure out if we should keep this card and if so, for what purpose.

[Luvtoride]

I may not have looked thru ALL of the responses here but I didn’t notice mention of the Amex Blue card. We have been using it for a little over a year, primarily for groceries (6% cash back up to $6,000 in annual purchases) and 3% cash back for gasoline purchases (no limit). I have added the full list of categories and offers below. I just redeemed the statement credit of over $500 after about a year of accumulating them. I couldn’t find the annual fee but I think it’s $95 but there is also a generous sign up offer of $150 after spending a certain amount on the card within 3-6 months.
IMG_4870.jpg
There is a nice high end supermarket near our beach home that at Xmas time has a “sale” on gift card purchases. Depending on how much you buy the discount is as much as 20% off. Using the Amex Blue card gives us an additional 6% cash back on that purchase.

It drives my wife nuts to use certain cards for certain types of purchases to the point where she has labeled her CC so she can remember. We laugh about it but it does earn us some good rewards.

[CRLLS]

I was interested so I just checked the Amex Blue card. It looked like a good deal for us on the surface, except to get the 6% on groceries requires a "Amex Blue Preferred" card which carries a $95 Annual fee after the first year. We do a good amount of our grocery shopping at Walmart which is not in the Grocery category. Not a good deal for us. We'll stick with our Fido card.

[calmloki]

So here's the deal - it's all about the bonus bucks. Pick a decent points back card to carry and use as a default card (we use the no annual fee 2% cash back into a Fidelity savings account card). Hit the banks a couple times per year for nice $500-$1000 bonus amounts. Maybe get separate husband and wife cards if the bonus is big enough - and cancel the cards before the annual fee hits.

I can focus efforts on meeting a required spend and putting everything possible on one card but don't have the desire or mental acuity or energy to chase a couple extra percent by using a fistful of cards for a few extra months (rotating bonus categories!) on different picayune individual bills .

Or maybe that's just me being lazy.

[Tracer]

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Originally Posted by Luvtoride I may not have looked thru ALL of the responses here but I didn’t notice mention of the Amex Blue card. We have been using it for a little over a year, primarily for groceries (6% cash back up to $6,000 in annual purchases) and 3% cash back for gasoline purchases (no limit). I have added the full list of categories and offers below. I just redeemed the statement credit of over $500 after about a year of accumulating them. I couldn’t find the annual fee but I think it’s $95 but there is also a generous sign up offer of $150 after spending a certain amount on the card within 3-6 months. Attachment 40031 There is a nice high end supermarket near our beach home that at Xmas time has a “sale” on gift card purchases. Depending on how much you buy the discount is as much as 20% off. Using the Amex Blue card gives us an additional 6% cash back on that purchase. It drives my wife nuts to use certain cards for certain types of purchases to the point where she has labeled her CC so she can remember. We laugh about it but it does earn us some good rewards.

This card sound like a good deal for someone with a large family with high grocery expenses. I got an offer for that card but decided that being by myself, the $95 annual fee would nearly wipe out any cashback I received. I'm sticking with my Fidelity 2.25% cashback on everything VISA.

[Chuckanut]

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Originally Posted by calmloki S don't have the desire or mental acuity or energy to chase a couple extra percent by using a fistful of cards for a few extra months (rotating bonus categories!) on different picayune individual bills . Or maybe that's just me being lazy.

No you're not lazy.

With gasoline near $4 a gallon in my area a 5% cash back gets my notice.

I like to eat good, healthy food, so 5% back on groceries is worht the effort.

OTOH, 6% on streaming services? I only have Netflix, so that is not a hill worth climbing. It is certainly not worth the annual fee some cards demand.

I have not tracked my CC rewards, but I think I may do that if for no other reason to than to satisfy my curiosity, and perhaps, hit a new high on the gloat-o-meter.

[BlueberryPie]

Netflix didn't register as streaming service (no 6x) on my Sapphire

[isisdave]

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Originally Posted by Scuba I think I’m like you in this regard. With the Elan Fidelity VISA, I get 2% back on everything and the money automatically appears in my checking account each month. I got this Chase Sapphire card because of the great bonus to sign up, but now I’m not even sure how to take advantage of it. I wish I could just tell them I want the $1,250 cash and be done with it. It may have other great benefits but I’m not sure what I’d really use. We do travel and dine out a lot so before I cancel, I need to make it a priority to read up on the details and figure out if we should keep this card and if so, for what purpose.

Scuba, I also have had the Fidelity Visa for years, and it's my principal card. This is my daily-use card and also I have about ten monthly charges on it. I NEVER take it overseas, to minimize risk of having to change monthly charge info on all those accounts if it were lost or stolen. Plus it does have a 1% foreign transaction fee.

I also have Sapphire Preferred (this is the $95 per year model) but I only use it for travel. No foreign fees on this one. It has some great (primary) rental car protection (bought me a $1600 windshield in New Zealand) and some significant trip cancellation and interruption insurance. Its travel benefits are supposed to be good if you buy through their portal, but I can usually find deals as good elsewhere.

Almost a year ago I got the Chase Freedom Flex (no fee). It always has 3% on dining (including takeout) and drugstores, and the first year it also got 3% on groceries. There are quarterly other categories usually not worth remembering. You can transfer points between it and the Sapphire. Also, it covers phone breakage if you charge your cell service to it.

Other than that, we have a PenFed Visa for gas (5%) and groceries (3%), and a Chase Amazon card used only for Amazon (5%). No fee on either of those.

Special purpose: a Chase Marriott/Bonvoy ($95) we got for the points bonus, and to charge the annual timeshare fee ($2100) for 5x points. It comes with a free night per year, which always is worth more than the annual fee -- usually twice that and sometimes more. And Citi AA ($95) for the free checked bag (2 people, 2 ways, 1 bag each @ $30, 1 trip would cost $120). This was worthwhile pre-Covid and I'm hoping it will be again soon.

This is all just a little less simple than I usually like, but it's manageable.

[Scuba]

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Originally Posted by isisdave Scuba, I also have had the Fidelity Visa for years, and it's my principal card. This is my daily-use card and also I have about ten monthly charges on it. I NEVER take it overseas, to minimize risk of having to change monthly charge info on all those accounts if it were lost or stolen. Plus it does have a 1% foreign transaction fee. I also have Sapphire Preferred (this is the $95 per year model) but I only use it for travel. No foreign fees on this one. It has some great (primary) rental car protection (bought me a $1600 windshield in New Zealand) and some significant trip cancellation and interruption insurance. Its travel benefits are supposed to be good if you buy through their portal, but I can usually find deals as good elsewhere. Almost a year ago I got the Chase Freedom Flex (no fee). It always has 3% on dining (including takeout) and drugstores, and the first year it also got 3% on groceries. There are quarterly other categories usually not worth remembering. You can transfer points between it and the Sapphire. Also, it covers phone breakage if you charge your cell service to it. Other than that, we have a PenFed Visa for gas (5%) and groceries (3%), and a Chase Amazon card used only for Amazon (5%). No fee on either of those. Special purpose: a Chase Marriott/Bonvoy ($95) we got for the points bonus, and to charge the annual timeshare fee ($2100) for 5x points. It comes with a free night per year, which always is worth more than the annual fee -- usually twice that and sometimes more. And Citi AA ($95) for the free checked bag (2 people, 2 ways, 1 bag each @ $30, 1 trip would cost $120). This was worthwhile pre-Covid and I'm hoping it will be again soon. This is all just a little less simple than I usually like, but it's manageable.

Thank you for this information. I was intuitively leaning towards using the Sapphire for travel only, and the Fidelity 2% card for most other purchases, but your explanation confirms this approach works well. We also have the Amazon and Target cards, but only use them there so we get 5% back. The other cards that require category juggling are just too much effort for me, although I understand their appeal.

[Montecfo]

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Originally Posted by BlueberryPie I'm thinking about getting a Wells Fargo Active Cash card: 2% cash back, no categories it upfront planning, 0% annual fee and $200 sign up bonus after spending $1K over 3 months The only perk of interest is that it has cell phone protection up to $600 for cell phone loss damage if you use it to pay your bill. I've almost never used any of the perks on travel credit cards, etc... I just don't think about them, or they don't apply, so maybe this is the straightforward card for me.

If i am inclined to change it would be to the WF Active Cash. 2 pct, pretty much no nonsense. No fee and $200 premium.

That's pretty darn attractive.