Curious snowbird?

[braumeister]

Anyone else do snowbirding in reverse?

One of my neighbors has a house on an island in northern Michigan (the UP) that has been in her family for decades. When it begins to get hot here in Kentucky, she heads up there and stays until usually at least October. She loves it and would never consider not doing that. Last year she needed some work done on her home here and that delayed her departure for the north country until July. Nearly drove her nuts, missing the cool weather.

 

[Freedom56]

We live in an area that has mild winters -- I can drive to snow in about 1.5 hrs when I have a hankering to go snowshoeing.

But our summers are freaking hot!

We're leaning towards the solution others are suggesting above, renting a place for a few months, but in our case it would be for the cooler summers in the PNW. Our favorite areas include the Olympic peninsula and the San Juan Islands in WA state, and Vancouver Island in CA.

As it is now, we make an annual pilgrimage up that way every summer for a couple of weeks, but DH is finally considering escaping the blast furnace for longer periods, hooray.

Anyone else do snowbirding in reverse?

The pool helps us in the summer months when we stay. The water temperature reaches 90 degrees on its own. The A/C runs all the time. We usually travel during July and August to Europe or elsewhere. It's warm there too with much more humidity than Southern California. So you would be trading dry heat for humidity.

 

[brucethebroker]

Others have mentioned renting a place. It is a good option.

BTW, Jan-March will take out much of the miserable "up north" weather, the snowbirds we know do not spend 5 or 6 months down south.

If you are at the point of life where you are no longer really spending down your "nest egg", think of buying a second home as an investment: in your health (and it may even grow a little in value). A local radio legend in our "up north" hometown fell and broke his hip on, you guessed it, ice in Feb. He is 85 years old. That would not have happened in FL or Texas this last Feb. Being outside an additional 3 months each year does wonders for your body and psyche. IMO, worth every penny spent.

 

[pb4uski]

We're thinking about becoming snowbirds, but we can't get past:

• it has to be considerably more expensive...
• ...unless we literally had two homes that were in total the same cost as one retirement house (having once nice house vs two substantially smaller homes?)
• the logistics sound tough, what to move, what to have duplicates of, someone to watch over the vacant home and forgetting to shut off or start up some service
• but most of all, how do you have real friends in two places, only 6 months out of the year with each set?

The weather advantage is clear, and we'd actually like a change or scenery every 6 months or so.

It is more expensive than just staying at home, but what is the fun in that? For us, it is less expensive than renting... our annual carrying costs (HOA fees, property taxes, insurance, electricity, etc.) is about 2 1/2 months rent... if we rented it would likely be for 3-4 months... there is a little opportunity cost because we paid cash, but that is partially offset by appreciation... since we own we find that we actually stay 5 to 5 1/2 months. While we are away, we save on propane (heating to 55F vs 68F) and electricity ($25/mo vs $75+/mo).

Both properties are modest... 2,000 sf at home and 1,450 sf down south.

We do have a lot of duplicates, but that is no big deal. We have Blink cameras to monitor each place and someone to look in on the place occasionally.

We are lucky that there are 4 other couples that we are friendly with and we are all in the same neighborhood in the winter and within 15 miles of each other in the summer.... and other mutual friends visit in both places.

We like the lifestyle so far.... pretty much perpetual summer but with a twinge of spring and fall.

You can't take it with you.... enjoy it while you can.

 

[Zig56]

Depending on income situation, 6 months and a day in Florida can pay for the place in Florida.

+1

 

[Carpediem]

Depending on income situation, 6 months and a day in Florida can pay for the place in Florida.

What does that mean? Is it in reference to FL's no income tax?

 

[Ronstar]

What does that mean? Is it in reference to FL's no income tax?

Yes. 6 months and a day in Florida would give one Florida residence status and Florida has no state tax.

 

[W2R]

Another possible advantage of renting or going on long vacations in the potential snowbirding location, instead of buying and maintaining two homes, is the flexibility. In other words, if there is a gigantic market crash or other event that drastically impacts one's financial situation, it's pretty easy to delay that year's vacation to lower expenses.

So many plusses and minuses to snowbirding! I guess I am really lucky that I enjoy the climate here for the most part. Granted, August and September are usually very hot in New Orleans, but it takes me until the end of September before it "gets to me". By the time I get annoyed at the heat, summer ends and cooler weather arrives. October weather is usually wonderful here, our reward for enduring the heat of summer.

 

[harley]

Yes. 6 months and a day in Florida would give one Florida residence status and Florida has no state tax.

Actually one day and a residence will give one Florida resident status. There's no need for the 6 months. Unless the other state where one resides has that limitation.

 

[Moemg]

I know tons of snowbirds .Most of them own condos or mobile homes .They return to to the same place every year so they have established a social life.Most of the condo's,mobile homes and some single family developments have social activities so it is easy to meet people .As for what to bring most rentals are furnished and for items you forgot there is Walmart or the Dollar Store. It is more expensive because Jan,Feb. and March are the height of the season and prices are up . Visit Florida in off season and you will see many restaurants offering discounts .IMO the best months in Florida are March , April and October ,November .

 

[Ronstar]

Actually one day and a residence will give one Florida resident status. There's no need for the 6 months. Unless the other state where one resides has that limitation.

Ah I did not know that. Illinois must have that limitation - I knew of such a situation where the State of Illinois audited a couple’s credit card purchases to verify that they spent more than 6 months in Florida.

 

[brett]

We thought long and hard about it.

In the end we decided to travel during the winter months. So far have done four winters in SE Asia and one in South and Central America. Cost is about the same as maintaining a second home when all costs and opportunity costs are included.

Not certain how long we will do this. May look at renting in Mexico next year. No interest in Florida, AZ, etc. at the moment.

 

[ivinsfan]

Actually one day and a residence will give one Florida resident status. There's no need for the 6 months. Unless the other state where one resides has that limitation.

Tell that to the Delta pilots that got sued by the state o f MN for tax evasion...
....what states have no limitations on this?

 

[harley]

Ah I did not know that. Illinois must have that limitation - I knew of such a situation where the State of Illinois audited a couple’s credit card purchases to verify that they spent more than 6 months in Florida.

I'm pretty sure they were verifying that the couple spent more than 6 months not in IL. I don't think they can require you to spend that 6 months plus a day in a single place. In my case I usually spend close to 6 months in FL, just as a personal choice. But we also spend a month or so in VA visiting DD and family, so our actual time in MD (which has the same requirement as IL) is below 6 months. I think that satisfies the non-residency requirement for MD.

Interesting that it was IL that did that audit. People have been saying for a few years that the states with the worst financial situations and the highest taxes would start cracking down on the residency issue. MD has the high taxes, but they aren't too financially troubled at this point. It may come later.

 

[Ronstar]

I'm pretty sure they were verifying that the couple spent more than 6 months not in IL. I don't think they can require you to spend that 6 months plus a day in a single place. In my case I usually spend close to 6 months in FL, just as a personal choice. But we also spend a month or so in VA visiting DD and family, so our actual time in MD (which has the same requirement as IL) is below 6 months. I think that satisfies the non-residency requirement for MD.

Interesting that it was IL that did that audit. People have been saying for a few years that the states with the worst financial situations and the highest taxes would start cracking down on the residency issue. MD has the high taxes, but they aren't too financially troubled at this point. It may come later.

Correct - I don’t think that Illinois cared where they spent the 6 months - they were verifying the couple’s claim that they spent more than 6 months outside of Illinois - which was all 6 months + in Florida in their case.

 

[RAE]

I know tons of snowbirds .Most of them own condos or mobile homes .They return to to the same place every year so they have established a social life.Most of the condo's,mobile homes and some single family developments have social activities so it is easy to meet people .As for what to bring most rentals are furnished and for items you forgot there is Walmart or the Dollar Store. It is more expensive because Jan,Feb. and March are the height of the season and prices are up . Visit Florida in off season and you will see many restaurants offering discounts .IMO the best months in Florida are March , April and October ,November .

Where we have typically rented, on the Texas Gulf Coast, the rental prices were lowest during Jan and Feb, and started going up in March. March is spring break time for schools, so there was quite a bit more demand for rentals then. Since we rented for all 3 months, though, they did not raise the price in March for us, which was great. The other thing to consider for us is the weather back home. Jan and Feb are easily the worst winter months in Michigan, so there is no way I want to stay home then. And April is (usually) starting to get nicer, so I do want to be home by then. By the way, we just booked a rental in Florida for next Jan/Feb/March, and the price was the same for all 3 months again (and quite reasonable).

 

[Freedom56]

Establishing a residence in Florida to escape state taxes is not as easy as people say it is. Since losing the ability to deduct state taxes starting 2018, we are looked into changing our residency status from California to Florida. According to the Franchise Tax Board:

A California resident is any individual who meets any of the following:

- Present in California for other than a temporary or transitory purpose.
- Domiciled in California, but located outside California for a temporary or transitory
purpose.

A part-year resident is any individual who is a California resident for part of the year and a nonresident for part of the year.

The taxation is as follows:

California residents - Taxed on ALL income, including income from sources outside California.

Part-year residents of California - Taxed on all income received while a resident and only on income from California sources while a nonresident.

A nonresident is any individual who is not a California resident.

We are out of state 4-6 months of the year.

My sources of taxable income are all from out of state. Our bank and investment accounts were opened online decades ago and were given out of state addresses. Since we have an established domicile in Florida since 2011, we are looking into to tax benefits of being a part-year resident.

I have contacted the Franchise Tax Board to confirm if we can claim part-time residency and be taxed accordingly. We are waiting a response. This provision was used to tax snowbirds escaping to California. We determining if we can use this provision to escape some taxes.

 

[harley]

Those are not limitations in establishing FL residency, those are barriers to escaping CA taxation.

 

[W2R]

we are looked into changing our residency status from California to Florida.

Good luck with that. I have lived in 7 states, and California was absolutely the worst of the bunch for hounding us after we moved, trying to get state taxes from us. They just won't quit! None of the other 6 states gave us any trouble at all when we moved. Finally got California off our backs but it wasn't easy.

 

[45th Birthday]

For those of you in Illinois looking to escape the weather and taxes, see paragraph f) here. It says that you are presumed to continue to be an Illinois resident if you are present one more day in Illinois than you are present in any other state. So, if you have three places, like we used to, it makes satisfying this requirement easier. You can spend 123 days in state A, 122 in state B and 120 in Illinois and you should be fine.

Note that this refers to a presumption you are still a resident based on days. Other factors like driver's license, voting, income, property ownership, etc. still matter.

Also, it is not clear what "present" means. For example, New York says if you arrive at noon on one day and depart at 11:00am the next, you have just spent two days in New York. And, it is not clear how they count travel time. Say you go to Europe for a week. Does that count as Illinois time since you were previously a resident? Or does it count as time spent in the state you were in when you left for the trip?

If you have a lot at stake and wish to change domicile, best to search for an attorney with experience in the matter in your state.

 

[pb4uski]

Yes. 6 months and a day in Florida would give one Florida residence status and Florida has no state tax.

.
There is a lot more to it than just 6 months and a day.. if you are still homesteading elsewhere, drivers licenses and car registrations elsewhere, addresses on financial accounts elsewhere, etc and just rent in FL for 6 months and a day your home state is unlikely to accept that you are a Florida resident... particularly if it is NY.

 

[pb4uski]

....A part-year resident is any individual who is a California resident for part of the year and a nonresident for part of the year. ...

In most states, the part year resident classification is for taxpayers who move in or out of the state during the year. For example, DD moved to Texas in October so she files a part-year resident return for the part of 2017 that she lived in Vermont and no state return for the few months that she lived in Texas since they do not have an income tax.

The part-year resident classification is NOT for people who split their time between two or more states IME.

 

[pb4uski]

For those of you in Illinois looking to escape the weather and taxes, see paragraph f) here. ....

all individuals who are physically present in Illinois enjoying the benefit of its government

WADR, you guys are getting ripped off big time.

 

[MichaelB]

The challenge is not to declare oneself a resident of a particular state, it's to convince the tax authorities ofone's current state that one is no longer a resident and does not have a tax liability. California and NY are particularly effective at winning those encounters.

The paragraph about being an Illinois resident if you are present one more day in Illinois than you are present in any other state only applies if you were an Illinois resident the previous year and are attempting to change residency. If you do not earn any money and were not a resident the previous year, you can spend up to 9 months in Ill without any tax liability.

 

[omni550]

Yes. 6 months and a day in Florida would give one Florida residence status and Florida has no state tax.

Actually, from Florida's perspective, for Florida residency status you need to fill out a declaration of domicile and get it notarized....and show some proof of having ties here (examples: owning property, registering your car, registering to vote, being employed, bank account, library card, etc.)

Florida has NO time requirement to "have to" stay here.

It's the individual's northern state that often is the one with issues...

"In many instances the issue is not the steps an individual has taken to become a Florida resident, but rather the steps that an individual has take to divorce him or himself from their northern abode. Many northern states have lost substantial sums of both income tax as well as estate and revenue as a direct result of part time Florida residents declaring Florida their domicile. Accordingly. many states have established criteria placing the burden of proof on the party declaring Florida as their domicile." (more here https://ronwebster.com/content/making-florida-your-domicile)


omni