Falsely accused of extra guests

What does travel have to do with early retirement?

Well, a lot of us early retirees spend a lot of our time and money traveling,
 
Honestly, WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH EARLY RETIREMENT? Sorry for your travel woes, but why not take it up on a travel/booking site:confused:



On this forum there is a thread about whether guys stand or sit when they pee. I’m not sure what that has to do with early retirement either. I find both threads, this one and that one, to be, well, educational.

This is my favorite forum, bar none. Well moderated. When the mods shut a thread down, we are entertained by Porky Pig. It’s a class act. Occasionally folks get upset with one another, but they usually don’t shout.
 
This forum has some of the smartest people out there so I want to bounce this off you guys and girls.

A host is accusing me of having 2 extra guests. I explained to customer service what happened and they side with the host. Here is the short version. I booked a small unit for me and the wife. We had to drive 6-7 hours to get there but my sister in-law asked us to pick her and her husband up at the airport since the 4 of us were going out to dinner in a town about 15 miles form the rental. We arrived from airport 15 min after check-in time and we all enter the unit to freshen up. We all had overnight bags, used the bathroom and prepared to go for a walk. Dinner reservations were not for another 2 hours and we all needed to stretch our legs.

Just as we are about to leave I get a txt from host asking if the unit is ok and asking for confirmation as to how many are needing accommodations that night. I responded that there will be 2 of us. We all look at each other and say 'this is creepy. Somebody is watching us." I knew there were security cameras and I am OK with some for security purposes but I'm getting a creepy vibe. We go for a walk. We come back after 90 minutes to freshen up and change into dinner clothes.

All four of us leave, my brother and sister in-law carrying their overnight bags since they will be staying with my nephew who is meeting us for dinner. On the way out I notice a camera about waist high on the landing outside the door. We laugh and cringe and joke about the creepiness and I stand in front of it and tell everyone to go down the stairs. The creepy camera can checkout my rear end while they descend the stairs.

We go to dinner and my wife and I return alone to the unit at 10:30pm. In the parking lot I notice a sign saying security cameras in use and I park right in front of one in the only visitor parking spot as requested by the owner. On the way up the stairs, DW and I make faces into the creepy camera (a few glasses of wine will do that to you). DW goes to bed and I start googling rental unit spying. I bone up on the subject and look inside the unit for hidden cameras. I find two things that look like they could be hidden cameras. I cover them with paper towels.

The next morning, after DW and I go for a walk I get a txt asking that I not cover up the security cameras. I told him there are no external security cameras that are covered. He later states that he has six external cameras and he sees us coming and going even if I'm standing infront of the one on the stairs. I'm ok with cameras on my car and in the parking lot. DW and I are not too keen on the creepy crotch-shot camera on the stairs. We return from the walk and get dressed for a party at my nephew's.

When leaving, I stand infront of the crotch shot cam while DW walks by and we go to party. Later that day I get a txt saying my reserv is cancelled, the authorities have been notified and are en route to remove my belongings from the unit. He said I had broken a local law against blocking the view of a security camera and he notified the large online rental company stating I had breached the contract by having 2 extra guests and breaking local laws. He also stated he was pressing charges for not being out of his unit within 2 hours.

There's more, but to conclude, we were charged for four people for one night and kicked out of our rental. Cust service was of no help. Before leaving town the next day we stopped by the PD to turn ourselves in since the host said he was pressing charges. I asked if a squad car had been dispatched to the rental the day before and the answer was no. There was no law against blocking the view of a security camera either.

If you're still with me, I got nowhere with cust service. I searched for how to resolve host accusing renter of extra guests but all I could find was hosts having to deal with renters who sneak in extra guests. The host is aggressive and hostile so I go through customer service. What would you guys do at this point?


We are hosts on AirBNB and also use it when we travel. We have 2 external cameras and 1 internal in the living room. We make it very clear that there are cameras and that the interior camera is disabled when guests are there although I can turn it back on in an emergency, like when the fire alarm goes off!

I use them to be sure guests arrive safely, the plow came and the steep driveway is passable and have found several guests who brought dogs without telling me or paying the pet fees.

As to number of guests unless the listing was for a maximum of 2 there should be no charge even if your family stayed over. If I rent a 2 bedroom unit I should be able to use both bedrooms unless it says there is a surcharge for more then 2. These just sound like awful hosts and you should review them as such
 
That sounds like a scary story. The whole thing is crazy really.
 
We are hosts on AirBNB and also use it when we travel. We have 2 external cameras and 1 internal in the living room. We make it very clear that there are cameras and that the interior camera is disabled when guests are there although I can turn it back on in an emergency, like when the fire alarm goes off!

Maybe others would be comfortable with a living room camera, but I personally would not feel comfortable staying in a home with a camera inside the home. The owner can tell me they only use it for emergencies but I have no way of monitoring that. I don’t meet the owners before selecting their property so I have no way of knowing what they might choose to do with a camera they have access to.

This thread really makes me glad that I don’t have any properties for rent. I would not want to deal with the host of issues that can come up with renters.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
We are hosts on AirBNB and also use it when we travel. We have 2 external cameras and 1 internal in the living room. We make it very clear that there are cameras and that the interior camera is disabled when guests are there although I can turn it back on in an emergency, like when the fire alarm goes off!

I use them to be sure guests arrive safely, the plow came and the steep driveway is passable and have found several guests who brought dogs without telling me or paying the pet fees.

As to number of guests unless the listing was for a maximum of 2 there should be no charge even if your family stayed over. If I rent a 2 bedroom unit I should be able to use both bedrooms unless it says there is a surcharge for more then 2. These just sound like awful hosts and you should review them as such

Is there a way your guests can be 100% positive the living room camera is turned off? Or would it be wise for them to assume a stranger is watching while they cuddle on the couch reading brochures for the next day’s vacation adventures?

What measures do you take to be absolutely positive your guests are aware of the living room camera and can protect themselves? A signature line or initial box on the contract?
 
Last edited:
Also common to use fake plug covers for air sampling and sound recording to confirm quiet and nonsmoking. hotels have staffing to keep folks in line. unmanaged property has technology instead of people to do the same thing.

partly a consequence of folks trashing properties.
 
Maybe others would be comfortable with a living room camera, but I personally would not feel comfortable staying in a home with a camera inside the home. The owner can tell me they only use it for emergencies but I have no way of monitoring that. I don’t meet the owners before selecting their property so I have no way of knowing what they might choose to do with a camera they have access to.

This thread really makes me glad that I don’t have any properties for rent. I would not want to deal with the host of issues that can come up with renters.

+1. I have recently stayed in an VRBO and found a camera outside in the back yard patio. I turned the lens up to the sky. I have 2 bookings upcoming and have e mailed the owners to ask about cameras. One owner said they had no cameras (so I kept the booking), the other admitted to cameras on the front door and back yard (I will proceed with caution). Personally I draw the line on any type of recording devise monitoring me while renting. As word gets out (stories get told) about rental cameras the rental industry will take a black eye. Like others have said, If a host can film me indoors I'll return to the hotels. Lesson learned, ask about cameras before you book. The other issue spreading is "Host controlled HVAC". I had a Host limit the AC to 78 degrees. Again, I have an upcoming booking in Arizona where the fine print mentions not allowing the AC to drop below 76 degrees. I sent the host a note asking for permission to go below 76 and offered to pay the extra electricity. I've not heard back. Thankfully nothing as offensive as the OP's experience but there is a disturbing trend to overly control the person who has paid up front for a private residence.
 
As the reluctant neighbor of a 3600 square foot airbnb I have found it necessary to install lots of cameras near the fence line bordering the property. Constant parties and trespassers have forced the issue. I’m sure I’m not the only one.

We see the tenants constantly lying about the numbers of people staying there. This became obvious once airbnb limited occupancy to 16 and we would count 20,30, or 40.

Making faces at the cameras probably sealed your fate. Wine did it? One of the reasons I had to quit drinking 21 years ago is because it did that to me too. When alcohol changes our personalities, that would be a warning light on the dashboard. It might have been a warning light on the hosts dashboard as well.
 
I skipped over responses at a certain point - but the thing that bugs me the most is the fact of CAMERAS INSIDE THE UNIT. Everything else seems on the margins. So a couple of people stopped by and happened to have luggage.

But the fact that the owner had internal cameras - and your description makes is pretty clear that he did and that he was monitoring your moves in real time. That is just awful. What if you chose to walk about naked in the house? What if you and your partner got intimate? That just really creeps me out. It seems wrong and the owner is the one who should be penalized. I might have deliberately disrobed or been intimate in front of a camera then gotten the host arrested for being a peeping Tom! If it were me, that's what I'd pursue. Consider any money spent lost but PLEASE for the benefit of future renters, please get his cameras shut down.
 
I've stayed in hotels with problems too...Airbnb and VRBO are like everything else do a little research ahead of time. Well go out West for at least a month every winter and I'm not staying in a hotel room for a month.

Home Exchange is an option to keep in mind. My brother and his wife spent (pre-pandemic) 203 months every year traveling to Europe, Australia, New Zealand, etc. They ended up staying in a far better home than theirs. And they were in Lancaster, PA - something that I would not consider a tourist mecca but he always had someone who wanted to swap.
 
As the reluctant neighbor of a 3600 square foot airbnb I have found it necessary to install lots of cameras near the fence line bordering the property. Constant parties and trespassers have forced the issue. I’m sure I’m not the only one.

We see the tenants constantly lying about the numbers of people staying there. This became obvious once airbnb limited occupancy to 16 and we would count 20,30, or 40.

Making faces at the cameras probably sealed your fate. Wine did it? One of the reasons I had to quit drinking 21 years ago is because it did that to me too. When alcohol changes our personalities, that would be a warning light on the dashboard. It might have been a warning light on the hosts dashboard as well.

This is honestly the best response to the original post I have yet seen. Thanks!

+1
 
I skipped over responses at a certain point - but the thing that bugs me the most is the fact of CAMERAS INSIDE THE UNIT. Everything else seems on the margins. So a couple of people stopped by and happened to have luggage.


I agree that cameras inside a rental unit are unit are totally inappropriate, but after reading the OP's posts again, it is not clear that there were any internal cameras. He said he covered up what he THOUGHT may have been a camera, but he could not be sure, as he didn't really look at it that closely. Then he said he had stood in front of an external camera by the door while some people walked in, so it is entirely possible that the owner of the unit became upset because he could not see who was entering the house. So I don't think we can conclude that there were internal cameras.
 
One of the benefits of a pandemic (and ongoing no-fly ban by husband), is plenty of time. Like enough to read straight through a 9 page thread.

TL; DR: I agree w/ ikabuk, that the rental owner most probably had illicit internal cameras, possibly for nefarious reasons.

Reasons: The rental company shut-down communication w/ ikabuk pretty quickly and harshly, which leads me to believe they received d@mning evidence of serious renter violation. In 2021, esp for the kind of business that depends on OL reviews, for customer service to act so is unusual.

The owner had, at a minimum, 6 external cameras. Which means he could VERY clearly see that the extra bodies, and accompanying luggage, left his house after a few hours stay and did not spend the night. I suspect he edited the footage submitted to the rental Co. to show extra guests arriving, and did not submit the date/time footage showing them leaving.

Owner probably also submitted the footage of kooky faces, and captioned those w/ his concerns that such “reckless” behavior would portend serious damage to his property.

I think ikabuk found at least 1 of the internal cameras; confirmed to the owner when ikabuk covered it. The risk of ikabuk uncovering more would increase the longer he remained. If owner had cameras in compromising places (eg. above bed, in bathroom), he would know that ikabuk had not yet discovered them b/c they were uncovered, and better to get him out before discovery.

Why I believe ikabuk: Biggest clue is that he hiked the AT. And that he vlogged about it. I know anecdotes does not = data. Nonetheless I personally know approx 9 (and not me... 45min walk enough for me) persons who have hiked The or most/much of the AT, and every one of them is solid and very clear about integrity. It might have something to do w/ all that time... in their head...on a trail...immersed in nature, giving clarity. As a group, they also have excellent intuition, which prob helps them survive unscathed. They tend to be down to earth, and prob not above making faces at snooping cameras. And the vlogging-for-many-years aspect, shows he is a very social animal who likes to share. So if a red flag goes up in ikabuk’ s mind, I would pay attn.

Philosophical: TL; DR: caveat dawning of new world order, i.e. give a foot, they’ll take a mile

Humans are first and foremost social creatures. Our relationships are what is most valuable. When we deny this, to ourselves, to each other... then what is living... as a human being worth?

To spend a few hours conversing with other humans, esp relatives (re-enforcing healthy animal relationships) is normal, and should be encouraged. In past times, to have another person cross your threshold and enjoy hospitality was a highest goal.

Now we have evolved as a society where the individual is becoming increasingly isolated. Furthermore, it sometimes feels, the individual is regarded as only a wallet and how much money, or value, can be extracted. Do we want to societally accept that the value of a couch or toilet is higher than human conversations?
I think it is ridiculous that a landlord or property owner would prohibit a few friends/family from visiting a few hours. I’m not talking party, trash the property, disturb the neighbors. To prohibit normal, healthy human behavior is anti-social and odd. Taking those conversations to a restaurant or other venue changes the dynamics of the comfy, homey atmosphere.

Furthermore, do we want to normalize surveillance? Especially internal surveillance. If property owners can do it to renters, then why shouldn’t the government be able to do it to citizens? Do we want to allow CCTV like they have in U.K.? I would be very very reluctant to give up more rights to privacy.

I would be very careful wording your review, esp. if the owner knows your name and address. Also be succinct, not one of those humongous single paragraph sea-story reviews, or the internal cameras warning may get lost.
 
VR Host Replies

Your experience was over the top abnormal. As a VR host myself, I am sorry you were treated that way. I am also very surprised at the hosting platform's response, they usually are responsive to vacationers' complaints.
My suggestions are 1. leave a review especially noting the cameras in the property. Reviews are very powerful not only to potential future renters but also affect the host's rating with the hosting platform. 2. Request a refund from your credit card company. They can do a chargeback.
I hope you will continue to use VR's in the future - this isn't the typical experience!:cool:
 
This thread gave me food for thought from both renters and hosts. Thanks for all your perspectives.

The only time I've ever stayed at an AirBnB was in Sapporo, Japan, in a condo. We had some misunderstanding with the host about where the key was stashed, so spent way too much time creeping around the lobby, trying to get into the mailboxes and the package drop, before we found it. If we hadn't been two obviously confused gaijin ladies, I'm sure someone would have called the cops on us!
 
Back
Top Bottom