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Flying from MD to Africa, and back (2 one-ways)
Old 01-06-2018, 09:34 AM   #1
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Flying from MD to Africa, and back (2 one-ways)

Looking for experienced travellers' advice:

We are considering a Tauck tour of Botswana, South Africa and Zambia. Almost sold out already for 2018. What's stopping us from pulling the trigger is complete ignorance of such a long flight. Could we stand it, we wonder? We're not experienced flyers and have never flown longer than Washington, D.C. to Heathrow. Well, I flew to Seoul for business back in the 80's, but I was a lot younger then...

Looks like business class from Washington D.C. to Livingstone, Zambia and from Cape Town, SA to Dulles would run about as much as the tour. We would spring for the $$ since it is once-in-a-lifetime, but what about the logistics?
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:03 AM   #2
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I spent three wonderful weeks in SA on business. We flew business from KC->Philly->London and spent a half day there. The following night London->Cape town.

The stop was for the guy I was traveling with to see a little of London. Honesty it wasn't a bad flight. We did the same in the way home as we had to touch base with our UK partners.

I would have felt great had I not try to drink with a guy 20 years my junior. There was a direct for 18 hours, I don't think it would be too bad. This was on South African Air, great service.
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:07 AM   #3
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Tiring, but it can be done.......we flew steerage in 2011.....last day in Botswana had an early a.m. game drive......small plane to Maun....sat at the Maun airport.....2 hour flight to Jozi....3-4 hours there...South African Airways from Jozi........peculiar routing, Jozi-NYC-Washington DC-Toronto.

Drove home from Toronto airport.....figured it was 36 hours straight since we slept in a bed....I was 69 years old at the time.

Git 'er done!
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:24 AM   #4
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It won't be any easier next year, or the year after that. Has that polar vortex reached Maryland and kept you indoors? If you have survived that for days you can survive a flight that's less than a day long. The jet lag may be another story.
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:29 AM   #5
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Lived in RSA for two years. Visited all the countries you plan. It will be a great trip.

The most uncomfortable flight was when we only made a fuel stop, probably 1/2 way there (can't remember island name). Not deplaning made that flight feel very long.

With a stop, even a long one, I think the flight is a bit easier. Having said that, it is a long flight. Having said that, pain rarely seems to be remembered in the same way this trip will be.

BTW, if you can fit in Tanzania, you might want to consider it.
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:47 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by davef View Post
The most uncomfortable flight was when we only made a fuel stop, probably 1/2 way there (can't remember island name). Not deplaning made that flight feel very long.
On the way out, (can't remember if we did it on the way back too), we stopped for refueling in Dakar for (at least) an hour...no deplaning....but they did come aboard and spray us with something......to compensate.

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Originally Posted by davef View Post
if you can fit in Tanzania, you might want to consider it.
Loved The Selous......but that was 30 years ago...imagine it's changed substantially.
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:10 AM   #7
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Long flights keep me from going to far away places. My reason is young kids. 8 hours from Amsterdam (cough cough) to Dulles was pretty easy though (and we had great free lounge access on both ends so it was kinda first class once we got off the plane).

The sweet spot on costs might be to find a flight with a long layover half way to your destination. Maybe something that connects in Europe, elsewhere in Africa or in the middle east. Even if you spend a little extra for a slightly more expensive economy ticket to get a preferred routing. And use the savings vs. business class to book a hotel in your layover city to get some proper R+R and a sit down meal.

That's what we almost did last summer to get the family to Asia (usually 18-24 hours from our East Coast home airport) with a layover in Europe in at least 1 direction. But chickened out.
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:13 AM   #8
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Our tour of Africa came right after our Peace Corps service (we were over 50 year old volunteers). But, we continued to follow our frugal Peace Corps approach for our African tour. So as you read this about Tanzania, written by DW, understand your choice of lodging and transport could easily be upgraded. Although, if I did this again, I would do it in a similar way.

The ride through southern and eastern Tanzania is beautiful; the large, open country is dotted with small villages, fields, baobabs, and hills. Half of the 22 hour ride to Dar Es Salaam was during the night; we arrived in Dar early on the morning of August 22 and, at the suggestion of our cab driver, found a comfortable room at the Safari Inn, a backpackers in the city centre. Here we parted ways with Liz; she was off to meet up with other PCVs. We found Dar to be a friendly, safe city, where we were able to walk to dinner after dark. The following morning we boarded the early, fast ferry to Zanzibar.

I could ramble on and on about Zanzibar, the exotic island off the coast of Dar. We spent a glorious 5 days there, three nights in Stone Town and two nights at Kendwa Beach. Stone Town is an African-Arab town whose narrow alleyways and buildings reminded us of Jerusalem. We spent one day on a spice tour, learning and seeing dozens of different spice plants that used to be a large part of the industry; now only cloves are exported from there. Our two wonderful days at the beach near the northern tip of the island were picture and book perfect. The accommodations at Kendwa Rocks were very comfortable ; the food was great, and the beach....ah, the beach. Soft white sands, and the most crystal clear, turquoise water. With no waves (not sure why) it was possible to see several feet to the bottom. Tofo Beach in Mozambique had been like paradise; Kendwa probably only beat that because of the lack of the waves-allowing the visibility. The one other thing I must mention about Zanzibar, because it was the first place we saw this, was the prevalence of Obama stickers and signs! They were everywhere, from bumper stickers on cars to handwritten scrawls on homemade pushcarts. The upcoming election was big and important news to Africans everywhere; we never had trouble finding a local to talk about it; and Tanzania seemed to have more evidence of Obama supporters than in any other country we visited.

After a very bumpy ferry ride back to Dar, we arranged a two day safari from Arusha, in northeast Tanzania, where we were headed the next day. We fortunately nabbed two of the last seats on a 'luxury' bus for the next morning. The all-day bus ride passed near Mt Kilimanjaro, though it was covered by clouds. Arusha was our least favorite city, being filled with touts, who constantly bombard tourists selling either souvenirs or safaris. The city's location near Kili and the Serengeti make it a busy place. We spent a fantastic two days/one night on a safari that took us to Lake Manyara National Park and the Ngorongoro Crater. Prior to taking this trip we had decided we wouldn't be doing any safaris or game drives; we had done our share already and seen most of the big game. But this safari was so different; we are so glad we listened to other travelers' advice. Lake Manyara was beautiful; the crater was exceptional. The drive starts out on the rim, then you descend into the huge crater; it's filled with large herds of animals. We had seen all of these animals before, but the sheer numbers were amazing. Wildebeests, or gnus, by the hundreds, as well as the dwarf antelope, the dik dik, roamed the crater floor. Hyenas, warthogs, gazelles, hippos, elephants, buffalo, rhino, and so many birds were sighted. The only animal that doesn't live in the crater, understandably, is the giraffe. But we had seen them the day before in the Park. Giraffe had become my favorite park animal during our stay in South Africa; and here I was treated to seeing a new species, the Masai giraffe (as opposed to the Cape giraffe). The crater was definitely another highlight of our trip so far; we began recommending it to other backpackers as well.
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:18 AM   #9
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OP - Would it be possible to break the flight trip up, by flying to some other country, spend couple of days there, then fly the rest of the way.

Or how about taking a cruise ship back instead of flying both ways, or cruise in both directions ?
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:39 AM   #10
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My sister went on a very luxurious photo safari in Africa where every 2-4 people flew their own plane from place to place. I have never seen more luxurious tents. It was quite an experience.

FYI: The giant in African trips shares ownership with VacationsToGo.com--largest seller of cruises worldwide. Their website has a link to their African travel affiliate. Tauck's trips are just too expensive for my pocketbook.
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:44 AM   #11
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The last time I traveled to Kenya, I deliberately broke up the trip into two legs, with a few days in London. One of the perks of being retired.

Another vote to see Ngorngoro Crater.
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Old 01-06-2018, 01:04 PM   #12
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It can be done for sure. Especially business class. Would be a walk in the park if you can get horizontal. Was in Malawi in December doing some programme development. I flew Ethiopian through Addis Ababa with a 3 day pause to visit family in London on the way over. Some of the others flew non-stop from Washington to Johannesburg and felt the flight was fine. And this was in economy. Southern Africa is gorgeous and well worth the trip IMHO.
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Old 01-06-2018, 01:41 PM   #13
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DS was in Peace C in 2002-4 and has worked around Africa for last 10-12 years. DW and I have made 7-8 trips there. As to the flights, preferred to us is through Amsterdam, where a 2 night stay is a great way to adjust to most of the time change, followed by a flight down south. Although we've done it several times, do NOT RECOMMEND the Atlanta-Johannesburg route. Efficient yes, but IIRC it's one of the longest commercial flights, 16 hours? We avoid that like the plague but when DS was medivacced from TZ to Joberg three years ago it was the best way to get there. It also crosses the equator in the Atlantic; really bumpy flights during hurricane season as those storms develop and move west.

He's been in TZ for 5 years now, as previously described Stonetown and Zanzibar is great. I think the Indian Ocean has the prettiest clearest water anywhere; we spent a week on island of Mafia there and it was gorgeous. We've never done Serengeti because of the crowds. Want tons of animals and hardly any people? Selous park in TZ is your choice. We've spent up to three days on safaris (three days in a bouncy 4WD in potentially hot conditions) and be aware that more than 2 can get old. I know a lot have raved about Kruger in SA but our experience was not very good. Lot of people, animals skittish, and there was a helicopter buzzing all day that we were told was after poachers. Chobe in Botswana was very nice. Vic Falls was stunning and can be connected with a trip to Chobe.

If you're in SA Capetown is really neat. The "little Carou" wine country was very memorable.

We've used up most of our tolerance for really long flights, but if you can handle getting to Europe, rest, then another 8-12 hours down to Africa, I'd highly recommend it. But, honestly, one of the things that has made our trips so great was having DS there, knowing where to go (or not go) and how to get there. We all have our preferences, but this is one you may want to make arrangements with a professional service. DS even used that when we left the countries he was in and were traveling to unknown areas. Good luck!

Another thought: Except in SA don't even think about driving yourself. DS in TZ has a car but would not think of driving at night. Recently his vehicle got creamed by a huge mirror that just fell off a bus coming from other way. His finance guy was killed when a semi broke an axle in oncoming lane. Don't believe there are any "new" buses or trucks brought into most of Africa; all worn out from Europe. People think of crime danger but transport danger is far more likely for ground travel in many of these countries.
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Old 01-06-2018, 04:17 PM   #14
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I'll add my voice to breaking the trip in London (or Amsterdam, Frankfurt, etc.) Not only do you avoid back-to-back flights, but you're also adjusted to the timezone change by the time you get to your African destination.

In 2016 we flew San Francisco to London, then London to Cape Town. Return was Johannesburg - London -San Francisco. A couple of days in London going out and coming back.

FWIW, we had nice seats on British Airways premium economy, top deck on A380s. It's not business class, for sure, but it's a lot less money. And it's much better than Economy Plus on United; wider seats and much more legroom.

The trip was booked as 'multi-city' rather than two one-ways.
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:29 PM   #15
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Long flights are custom made for Business Class. Look for the lay flat seats. And the 1-2-1 configuration. That way someone is not stepping over you as you sleep. We did LAX-ARN (Stockholm) on SAS and it was wonderful. Enough room to get up and stretch. Snacks in the galley. Big restrooms. Go on the Frequent Flyer sites to see which carriers are better. Flyer Talk, etc. They will have the pros and cons.

Good idea on breaking up the trip in Europe. Oh.. and use the lounges.

just imagine yourself as @robbie.....spend that money!
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:51 PM   #16
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Good rec on the lounges Scrapr. I've not been able to cough up the bucks for Business and opt for drug induced stupor. When we went through Ams without days off had no luck w the $50 one time, Lufthansa always "too booked up." However, did find a generic lounge w unlimited food and drink for $50 or less IIRC. It was hard to find though.
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Old 01-07-2018, 07:22 PM   #17
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We turned 70 this year and are in Hanoi today after a 14hour flight and a 4.5 hour flight. No fun; 30 hours total traveling. But you get used to it. The prize is worth the price. So just do it.

For Africa avoid SAA at all costs! Lazy staff, pilfered luggage, ...
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Old 01-07-2018, 07:26 PM   #18
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For Africa avoid SAA at all costs! Lazy staff, pilfered luggage, ...
OTOH...we flew them both ways. Toronto - Jozi.....no problems, great service...even in steerage.
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:33 AM   #19
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We loved South Africa. Did a safari in Kruger then flew to Victoria Falls etc. Back to Port Elizabeth where we rented a car and did our own thing for two weeks and dropped it off in Capetown.

We were on an extended trip. We opted to fly from Milan after spending time in Europe. We flew back to Rome and spent more time in Europe. Both were one way tickets on different air lines.

The other thing we did was book our safari directly with an operator in South Africa. We found it less expensive and got much better data by doing this over a local TA who specialized in this. We communicated by email, skype, etc. Worked very so. So well that we want to go back.
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Old 01-09-2018, 02:48 AM   #20
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Agree on avoiding large travel companies not based in the countries.Pierre Duval has become a friend South Africa safaris | South African tours | South African safaris. All itineraries are custom and he and wife Karen are very cost conscious. Strongly recommend. Google him for more info.
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