From an owner's perspective: VRBO vs. AirBnB

[ScoopKona]

Hey the renters POV is important too

For the purposes of this thread, I truly do not care.

I can Google VRBO and AirBnB problems all day. But I cannot find homeowners who aren't shills who are willing to share their experiences.

Since I'm not going to oversell or under deliver, I'm not worried about 90% of the guests. But 10% will cause problems regardless of how professional I am. And in those cases, the booking company may just matter.

It's certainly that way with the online sales sites my wife uses for her side-hustle.

 

[ivinsfan]

For the purposes of this thread, I truly do not care.

I can Google VRBO and AirBnB problems all day. But I cannot find homeowners who aren't shills who are willing to share their experiences.

Since I'm not going to oversell or under deliver, I'm not worried about 90% of the guests. But 10% will cause problems regardless of how professional I am. And in those cases, the booking company may just matter.

It's certainly that way with the online sales sites my wife uses for her side-hustle.

IMO that's the wrong attitude..but I hope it all works out for you. If you want good and possibly repeat renters, the booking engine can be important as well. The hospitality industry is a whole different ball game.


You do know Air B and VRBO are basically the same company?

 

[ScoopKona]

I don’t deal with problem guest.

(I read the entire post carefully. I'm just quoting a sentence so people know who I'm replying to.)



I wish I could be so confident. The fact that I'm building high-end houses with a million-dollar view means that I can price myself out of the riff-raff zone.

But with high-end accommodations come high-end guests with high-end needs. That's my big concern. I'm not Leona Helmsley, after all.

I don't need to worry about management because all these rentals will be on my farm. I'll be able to keep a weather eye on them all -- and hopefully defuse big problems before they start.

But if a guest is truly incorrigible, it would be nice to know if one, the other, or both companies "has my back."

 

[ScoopKona]

IMO that's the wrong attitude..

I'm basically asking, "I want to open a tire dealership franchise. Franchise owners: What do you like or dislike about your tire company? How is it working out for you? Does the company give you any support?"

And then getting a bunch of replies: "I buy Michelins! Goodyear for me! I don't drive, I take uber everywhere! I only buy tires at Costco!"

 

[JDARNELL]

I think you will be fine. Especially if you are gonna be that hands on and close. As for confidence that comes with time. My attitude certainly has changed since I have been in this market the last few years. You can always put a parallel website system in place to hedge your dependence
on either platform.

 

[ivinsfan]

I'm basically asking, "I want to open a tire dealership franchise. Franchise owners: What do you like or dislike about your tire company? How is it working out for you? Does the company give you any support?"

And then getting a bunch of replies: "I buy Michelins! Goodyear for me! I don't drive, I take uber everywhere! I only buy tires at Costco!"

These 2 companies are basically just booking engines so one would imagine they would show as much concern toward both parties in the transaction. Once you get paid for your rental period there's not much more they can or will do for you. They are a go between and you'll be disappointed if you are expecting more VRBO listed a fake listing which I paid for and when they acknowledged it was fake did not refund my money. As an owner I'd expect the same treatment..You are on your own.

 

[ScoopKona]

I think you will be fine. Especially if you are gonna be that hands on and close. As for confidence that comes with time. My attitude certainly has changed since I have been in this market the last few years. You can always put a parallel website system in place to hedge your dependence
on either platform.

This is part of the plan -- invite the good/easy/reasonable/thoughtful guests to simply call us next time. Once most of our business is repeat/referral, we won't need the training wheels.

 

[ScoopKona]

As an owner I'd expect the same treatment..You are on your own.

The difference being, these companies can charge-back the seller -- even if the buyer is clearly running a scam. "I left my Rolex on the nightstand and now it's gone! I demand $20,000!"

I already know how these companies work from the buyer's perspective. I am only interested in the seller's experiences.

 

[ivinsfan]

The difference being, these companies can charge-back the seller -- even if the buyer is clearly running a scam. "I left my Rolex on the nightstand and now it's gone! I demand $20,000!"

I already know how these companies work from the buyer's perspective. I am only interested in the seller's experiences.

How did the 20k Rolex get in the conversation? I hope you find what you are looking for

 

[ScoopKona]

How did the 20k Rolex get in the conversation? I hope you find what you are looking for

Have you ever had a charge-back as a merchant? Either online or brick and mortar?

All the buyer has to do is spin a tall enough tale and get someone from the shopping platform or credit card company to fall for it. We have a special bank account we only use for merchant transactions. We siphon it regularly so that charge backs can't hurt us too badly -- if we're being ill-treated by the platform, we can close the account and walk away from that platform.

 

[Sunset]

You will have commercial insurance to cover the missing Rolex issue, and other issues like the place burning down.

So this farm in HI is basically going to be farming tourist vacations !

 

[ScoopKona]

You will have commercial insurance to cover the missing Rolex issue, and other issues like the place burning down.

So this farm in HI is basically going to be farming tourist vacations !

Not precisely. I'm going to diversify in retirement even more than I did when I was working.

We absolutely crushed it in last year's Kona Cupping Competition. First harvest in 50 years and we got a world-class rating. The coffee will absolutely pay all the bills. But this farm is far-and-away my most valuable asset. And I'm not going to rely on just coffee. I don't want a bad year or several to wreck us -- think "complete replanting and waiting fifteen years due to disease, pestilence, etc."

Vacation rentals, in the model of the Italian agritourismo provides stability -- and a way to hedge our investment.

 

[Rianne]

Thanks, JDARNELL for that explanation from the point of view of a VRBO owner. My post:

https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f46/why-vrbo-113482.html

was from a first-time VRBO experience. We've not rented from VRBO or Airbnb. Mostly took advantage of my brother's timeshares. He has three and builds points like crazy. We basically pay his yearly maintenance fee and get a nice place for a week. I did not consider the VRBO's owner's perspective. There are so many expenses involved. We were the ones who got a killer deal on a beautiful place in Destin because we rented at the last minute. I ended up PM a request for that management company's website. Don't mean to hurt your business.

 

[CindyBlue]

This is unrealistic IMO if you want to stay in someone's home it's not unreasonable for them to want proof of identity and your current address. Your drivers license isn't as special as you think it is. I don't think that's a last straw. I'm with you on the fee part many have started adding a "service" fee to the cleaning fee. They never say what the service fee is for. I think it might go to VRBO but who know. VRBO is already charging the owners a fee.

Nope. Not for us. They would already have our current address and contact information. Sending our driver's license picture out on the web to a "random" person who owns a home and is renting it through AirBnB is just one more way for identity theft to happen. It's a risk we are not willing to take.

There are ways to figure out someone's reputation without having to do that. Our AirBnB reviews from places we've already stayed are outstanding - they can and should be reading those.

 

[ScoopKona]

I did not consider the VRBO's owner's perspective. There are so many expenses involved.

Property insurance only handles so much. And it's only for certain things. The kind of buyer fraud I describe would not make a good insurance claim. Even if the claim is approved, the hit we'd take to our annual premiums would cost more in the medium run. (Saving thousands to pay tens of thousands later.)

eBay from a seller's perspective is WILDLY different than eBay from a buyer's perspective. You can say the same about etsy, Amazon, and all the rest of the merchant platforms. Some have reasonable return policies. Others side with the buyer, no matter how ridiculous the claim.

I can only assume it is the same with VRBO and AirBnb.

That's not to say that there aren't awful vacation rental landlords -- I've read the horror stories about them, too.

Even with the risks, I think it's a good strategy. I can offer things nobody else can -- even in Hawaii. An agritourismo on a coffee farm in the Kona belt, within easy walking distance of the Captain Cook Memorial Trail.

There are only a few nearby guesthouses. And they're getting big bucks per night, even though they aren't offering what I eventually will.

 

[ivinsfan]

Nope. Not for us. They would already have our current address and contact information. Sending our driver's license picture out on the web to a "random" person who owns a home and is renting it through AirBnB is just one more way for identity theft to happen. It's a risk we are not willing to take.

There are ways to figure out someone's reputation without having to do that. Our AirBnB reviews from places we've already stayed are outstanding - they can and should be reading those.

And that's totally your choice but the random person is letting you stay in their home...many car rental agencies and hotel chains and probably airlines have that info.

 

[kgtest]

We have a Jersey Shore house and use a local realtor that specializes in weekly beach rentals. They also put our property on AirBnB. In five years we’ve gotten one tenant from AirBnB and the rest go direct to the local realtor. This year that tenant learned they can get our place cheaper by going directly to the realtor by avoiding AirBnB fees. Local realtors also provide linen services and better local info for the tenants. Of course, it depends on the location of your property.

I'll never forget when I was travelling around New Zealand and the motel owner of one of the places we stayed said to us "you know, had you booked directly with us on our own website vs the booking agents website, you would have saved 18%". She said, I pay a fee, and therefore pass that booking agent cost along on that avenue, and I don't have to charge that fee if you would have just called to book.

Lesson learned. Now, I try to look for the property we are going to stay at outside of VRBO and AirBNB before staying.

There is a flip side...

I've stayed at a few Vacaso accomodations and realize that they have a pretty high standard they maintain so maybe the fee is worth it when the agent has stringent standards you come to expect, vs a mom and pop or "slum" lord that only provides a single role of toilet paper for 5 guests staying 7 days.

 

[kgtest]

I had a chat with a friend who lists on AirBnb. I believe he is a super host. I asked him how he received and maintained that status. I subjected him to ideas and incidents I had faced as a renter of AirBNB and challenged him on how he would maintain that SuperHost rating with these issues arising. He also mentioned that it was important to be a SuperHost on the platform because the built in search algorithms worked in his favor vs not getting as many "views" and being presented less often on the platform if he were a lower rated host.

He said he sometimes gave partial and even full refunds to unsatisfied guests just to ensure he was not poorly rated, to avoid bringing his rating down.

So kind of from both perspectives, service provider and consumer.

 

[ScoopKona]

He said he sometimes gave partial and even full refunds to unsatisfied guests just to ensure he was not poorly rated, to avoid bringing his rating down.

Nothing would make me happier than your friend reaching out to answer questions.

Because this is exactly the sort of thing I fear will happen. There are people who will check in, be completely happy with the accommodations and STILL complain in order to get a refund. These are the same sort of people who buy a brand new TV at Costco a few days before the superbowl, and then return it a few days after.

And I'm also very concerned about the booking company doing charge-backs for the worst offenders. I am used to dealing with crappy people. But knowing how they're going to try to abuse me is half the battle.

 

[brokrken]

I suppose I should ask at this point: Is there ANYONE here who does vacation rentals as a side hustle?

I do. I have a rental property in North Carolina. We use both services. For some reason, we get way more rentals through AirBnB than from VRBO, but both work fine and have decent interfacs for the owner. I will say becoming a premier host on VRBO is much easier than becoming a superhost on airbnb and therefore seems to have less value than the airbnb version. Anyway, they both work fine and you can link up your calenders so they don't get double booked

 

[braumeister]

He said he sometimes gave partial and even full refunds to unsatisfied guests just to ensure he was not poorly rated, to avoid bringing his rating down.

That must not be too uncommon. I was surprised a few years ago when my AirBnB Superhost in Ireland gave me about a $50 refund when I told her there was no can opener in the kitchen. I was giving an excellent rating in any case, but she didn't know that (and I didn't ask for anything).

 

[kcowan]

My son used a local agent for years and the agent would never take any of his suggestions so he started a dual listing strategy with AirBnB. After three years, all his bookings came from AirBnB. The fees are just the overhead of reaching new clients.

His is a high-end place at a destination and the repeat business is low. So reach is important to his business. All bookings are for the whole place. But during Covid, he was getting more clients booking fewer days so his booking were double with just more cost of turnover.

 

[ScoopKona]

My son used a local agent for years and the agent would never take any of his suggestions so he started a dual listing strategy with AirBnB. After three years, all his bookings came from AirBnB. The fees are just the overhead of reaching new clients.

Next time you talk to your son, please ask him about feedback extortion by guests. And charge-backs by AirBnB.

And if that yields an earful, ask if there are any other rental annoyances that happen often enough to warrant a management strategy.

Thanks!

 

[ArmchairMillionaire23]

I like Hotels. Especially with spas. And a bar & grill. Maybe a swimming pool and a hot tub.

+1.

 

[oiseux]

Both or Neither

I am a vacation home owner, having worked with two different properties in two different locations. We've worked with property management services in both cases, and interviewed many more.

It used to be that VRBO was the place for longer term rentals and AirBnB was the short term place. We initially listed on both at once, but eventually only went with AirBnB because of the added cost and the lack of bookings. The host would manage the bookings and use software to help optimize pricing based on rates of nearby units and hotels. This was in one of the top city destinations, between the convention center and ball park. To minimize problems, we chose 4 day minimum and blocked out the days when a nearby area had a famous (somewhat notorious) street festival. This filters out the weekend partiers and produces higher owner yield (and reduced wear and tear). In the initial phase, our manager kept the price low and the min stay low to build good reviews, and then expanded the min stay and raised the price to position it as a premium product (there is now a special designation). Our traffic ended up being business travelers (sometimes with their family), foreign tourists and relatives of people living nearby. There is a lot of incentive to maintain your reviews and SuperHost status, and yes, there may be those that complain in order to get a discount. And there was one incident with a guest who lied and tried to sneak with a bunch of others to crash, but this was dealt with by the manager and AirBnB (but with a lot of disruption).

On the second location overseas we went with a firm with over 120 units that has its own website, references in major tour guides and that used to simultaneously cross-post across the three major hosting platform groups. However, eventually they dropped AirBnB due to the high prevalence of problem guests. They position the properties as premium and only accept properties in a certain location, key features and a recent state of renovation. A set of recommended designers are offered to owners of properties under renovations or needing furnishings. They also provide a list of supplies required, have branded linens, welcome baskets and a in-city concierge desk. They also point out when things need replacement and keep a handyman on staff, to dispatch to guests. Client problems are at a minimum here.