My recent 6-week road trip through Europe.

[NW-Bound]

My wife and I used pocket cameras, and they stored in JPG format. I was never interested in a DSLR, because of its bulk and I am not a serious photographer.

My traveling companion used a DSLR, but he converted to JPG before giving me the files. He left some in RAW format, and I took one example and zoomed in to compare the RAW against the JPG. Did not see that the RAW was any better. They were slightly different though.

[1-31-18]

This is all extremely helpful and also encouraging for those of us who want to do travel the way you just did, NW-Bound. I especially like the two easy tips: Use Airbnb and eat breakfast in.

What do you reckon your per-couple per-day cost would have been, all-inclusive except to exclude airfare and pro forma for one couple not two? In other words, how much per day on the ground in Europe had you and your spouse done this alone?

[target2019]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound My wife and I used pocket cameras, and they stored in JPG format. I was never interested in a DSLR, because of its bulk and I am not a serious photographer. My traveling companion used a DSLR, but he converted to JPG before giving me the files. He left some in RAW format, and I took one example and zoomed in to compare the RAW against the JPG. Did not see that the RAW was any better. They were slightly different though.

I will also enjoy your uploads, as they come in. Will be interesting to see what common places we have visited.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1-31-18 This is all extremely helpful and also encouraging for those of us who want to do travel the way you just did, NW-Bound. I especially like the two easy tips: Use Airbnb and eat breakfast in. What do you reckon your per-couple per-day cost would have been, all-inclusive except to exclude airfare and pro forma for one couple not two? In other words, how much per day on the ground in Europe had you and your spouse done this alone?

You can do more than just breakfast. We did eat dinner in by making something simple, or buying ready-to-eat meals and bringing it back.

All 4 of us like Airbnb a lot for several reasons.

European apartments are small by US standards, but people do live full-time in them. We get a dining table to sit down to eat dinner, whether we cook or buy ready-to-eat. We can make breakfast, or at least coffee in the morning. We have a fridge to keep cold drinks. Ah, all that Aperol Spritz and beer that I knocked down after a day of walking. In the US, we also have been spoiled by staying in rented timeshares. In order to have the same amenities in a hotel, it will cost a lot more money than what we typically spend at a Marriott or Westin.

Their locations are inside residential areas, and I like to see how the locals live. Walking around the neighborhood in a suburb or a rural village is great. It's something you do not see if you stay in hotels in larger towns or cities.

And next time, we will pack even lighter. Nearly all Airbnb's have a washer. Dryers are not common due to the high electric cost. Only one upscale one in Brussels had a dryer. So, we had to hang clothes to dry, and many had drying racks for guests.

I will answer your question in the next post.

[Nemo2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Their locations are inside residential areas, and I like to see how the locals live. Walking around the neighborhood in a suburb or a rural village is great. It's something you do not see if you stay in hotels in larger towns or cities.

+1 You stay at airbnb and the like and you see locals......you stay at hotels and you see (other) tourists.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1-31-18 ...What do you reckon your per-couple per-day cost would have been, all-inclusive except to exclude airfare and pro forma for one couple not two? In other words, how much per day on the ground in Europe had you and your spouse done this alone?

Previously, I did not track closely how much a trip cost, and only knew to the nearest $1K. I looked at the CC statement afterwards, and if we spent about $5-6K for a 2-week trip, then that was about what I expected.

This time, as mentioned, I was surprised to see how cheap it was. Surely, the exchange rate is now US$1.12 to a euro, and we had traveled when it was almost $1.50! Also this time, I did a more accurate accounting in order for my traveling companions to share the cost. Before the trip, I had told them that to keep it simple I would pay for all common expenses incurred during the trip, including all meals that we had together. So, my wife had to collect all receipts, and we sat down to figure out afterwards, then divided it by 2.

Knowing what I know now, I think that we can repeat a similar trip by ourselves, and it will cost no more than $200/day. The estimate is based on renting a smaller car and staying in 1BR apartments.

Car expenses/day: $30 rental + $30 for gas/toll/parking
Airbnb lodging expense: $80/day

The car rental cost is for a smaller car for 2, with all insurances and no deductibles. You can save a bit of money with a car with stickshift. My first car when I was 19 was a stickshift, but in unknown cities with crowded streets I prefer to have all my attention devoted to other cars, pedestrians, and street signs. In addition, my wife cannot drive a stickshift and I want her to be able to help if I get sick.

The Airbnb expense of $80/day assumes that you stay mostly in the countryside (the reason to have a car!), and not in the cities. Look at Airbnb's in Paris and London to see what they cost, vs. Airbnb's in small towns in Provence, Tuscany, or Umbria. In this trip, we alternated between small towns and large ones, although in the latter case we stayed mostly in the suburb in order to have a parking space. The gas/toll/parking is from my recent trip, and it will be lower for someone who drives less.

That adds up to $140, and leaves you with $60/day for admissions, groceries, bars, and restaurants.

Regarding admissions, I was surprised to see that we spent only $175/pp on this trip, and that already included the 72-euro ($81) Firenze card. More on this later.

Restaurant expenses are the wild card, but we are not the type to eat a heavy dinner every night. Most of our dining places are also the common trattorias or bistros frequented by the locals. We had some memorable dinners that way.

One can have a run-of-the-mill 3-course dinner with a glass of wine for $30-40 per person, or just pizza and beer for $15/pp. However, we can be picky about the food, and if we cannot find one that serves something special that we like to sample, we go back to the Airbnb and make simple meals ourselves. I saw quite a few restaurants that charge 50 euros/pp for a 3-course dinner, whose main plate was steak tartare. I am not going to pay that much for them to not cook!

[Fedup]

Steak tartare reminds me of one of Mr. Bean episodes.

[1-31-18]

This is extremely helpful detail. You could write a book about it and get it published. Think of yourself as a version of Rick Steves: traveling Europe among the people of Europe, with cost details and frugal travel recommendations. I've even got a brand name for you: The Frugal Traveler. Don't know whether it's already copyrighted.

[FUEGO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound And next time, we will pack even lighter. Nearly all Airbnb's have a washer. Dryers are not common due to the high electric cost. Only one upscale one in Brussels had a dryer. So, we had to hang clothes to dry, and many had drying racks for guests.

YMMV of course but we've been surprised how many of our Airbnb's here in Europe have had dryers. Usually they are "hidden" as part of the washer - there's a separate setting for drying, and wowzers are these controls confusing with their weird symbols. We aren't staying in particularly upscale places (average cost is around $80/night). Mostly 2-3 BR places near the tourist center but not always right in it.

But if no dryer, there has always been some form of fold out drying rack. Or in one case, in our apartment in Milan, Italy, I think Leonardo da Vinci invented the drying rack that drops a series of rods down from the ceiling and lets you hang clothes over the bathtub, then reel the rod back up to the ceiling using a system of pulleys.

We're traveling out of our bookbags only, so only have 3 changes of clothes (plus an extra pair of undies just in case ). No problem keeping clothes clean. However, we do have to think a day or two ahead since it takes an afternoon or overnight to dry (at least) and we can't throw a load in the washer and air dry on the evening before a next day early morning departure because they probably won't dry. After watching the poor saps hauling multiple pieces of heavy luggage up and down the bridges over the canals in Venice, I can confidently say we made the right choice to pack very light

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1-31-18 This is extremely helpful detail. You could write a book about it and get it published. Think of yourself as a version of Rick Steves: traveling Europe among the people of Europe, with cost details and frugal travel recommendations. I've even got a brand name for you: The Frugal Traveler. Don't know whether it's already copyrighted.

Thank you, but I don't think we are among the frugalest. We have never backpacked, and those youngsters spend a lot less than we do.

[FUEGO]

Re: rental car costs - we're half way through renting for 10 days here in Slovenia. Total cost was USD$170 (maybe a bit more with the new forex I'll get hit with when we settle up). So far we've driven across the country twice and had to put 20 liters in the tank ($1.14/L so about USD$25). The on board computer says we're averaging 4.5-4.8 liters of diesel per 100 km. That's about 50 mpg in American figuring, and about USD$0.10/mile for fuel costs. We're driving an Audi A3 automatic transmission, and it's a pretty small car. My 3 kids in the back seat say it's a little smaller than my old 2000 Honda Civic. Drives like a champ on these mountain roads though!

I'm curious how the gas mileage will drop when we do this mountain road with 50 hairpin switchbacks in a couple days. Probably be a little worse than 50 mpg. Especially if I have to stop more than once to let the kids vomit.

[FUEGO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Thank you, but I don't think we are among the frugalest. We have never backpacked, and those youngsters spend a lot less than we do.

I overheard a couple of young Canadian girls here in Ljubljana griping about the state of the various hostels and shared lodging they've done. Bathrooms are gross, floors always wet after others shower, grungy, stinky, trashy, etc. Makes me glad we're a couple steps up from the cheapest hostels in town Though we're still firmly in the budget travel category I'd say.

I'm like you for meals - if it's not something special I'm not going to drop $20-30 for a boring meal when I can have something incredible at my airbnb for a few bucks. We NEVER eat breakfast out because it's way more convenient to eat in, not to mention a lot cheaper and healthier.

[Nemo2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Thank you, but I don't think we are among the frugalest. We have never backpacked, and those youngsters spend a lot less than we do.

Stayed in a hostel in Colombo, Ceylon, just prior to my 21st birthday......they'd switch off the power at 10:00 p.m. and the rats would come out.....I was on the top bunk and don't know how many times I awoke because one was pulling my hair.......saw green eyes...followed by scampering sounds.

Guess we were all lucky not to have been bitten.

(We moved locales shortly thereafter.)

[FUEGO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo2 Stayed in a hostel in Colombo, Ceylon, just prior to my 21st birthday......they'd switch off the power at 10:00 p.m. and the rats would come out.....I was on the top bunk and don't know how many times I awoke because one was pulling my hair.......saw green eyes...followed by scampering sounds. Guess we were all lucky not to have been bitten. (We moved locales shortly thereafter.)

I've stayed in some $5 and $10/nt hotel rooms in Mexico. Turns out some also rented by the hour in addition to by the night. My girlfriend at the time traveled with me and said "next time we go back to Mexico we're not staying in those $5-10/nt hotel rooms!". She ended up marrying me in spite of that, so the rooms must not have been Ceylon-bad. No rats, just some cucarachas and folks yelling "puta" at her as we walked back to the hotel together with her holding some roses that a little starving street urchin girl guilted me into buying for "su mujer, tan bella!; Pero mas bella con flores, no?".

[Nemo2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUEGO I've stayed in some $5 and $10/nt hotel rooms in Mexico. Turns out some also rented by the hour in addition to by the night.

I recall mentioning this some time back, (where I can't recall).........my oldest friend, of some 50 years, of Japanese origin, born in a British Columbia internment camp, was traveling in South America, circa 1970, with his English then girlfriend, now wife of many decades............they inadvertently went into a hot pillow joint.....when he asked for a room for the night the incredulous desk clerk said "Por la noche, Senor?"

Apparently a small crowd gathered to observe this, obviously superhuman, guest.

[FUEGO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo2 I recall mentioning this some time back, (where I can't recall).........my oldest friend, of some 50 years, of Japanese origin, born in a British Columbia internment camp, was traveling in South America, circa 1970, with his English then girlfriend, now wife of many decades............they inadvertently went into a hot pillow joint.....when he asked for a room for the night the incredulous desk clerk said "Por la noche, Senor?" Apparently a small crowd gathered to observe this, obviously superhuman, guest.

Man, what they must have thought of me when I requested a room for two or three nights.

[Nemo2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUEGO Man, what they must have thought of me when I requested a room for two or three nights.

"It's a Bird... It's a Plane....it's..."

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo2 I recall mentioning this some time back, (where I can't recall).........my oldest friend, of some 50 years, of Japanese origin, born in a British Columbia internment camp, was traveling in South America, circa 1970, with his English then girlfriend, now wife of many decades............they inadvertently went into a hot pillow joint.....when he asked for a room for the night the incredulous desk clerk said "Por la noche, Senor?" Apparently a small crowd gathered to observe this, obviously superhuman, guest.

Like dis?

[Nemo2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Like dis?

They'd be older now.

[NW-Bound]

I was thinking of the gathering observers.