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Old 10-15-2019, 09:42 AM   #61
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Speaking of Yellowstone NP, I recall my visit there a few years ago. At the Grand Teton NP which is contiguous with the above, in the visitor center auditorium we attended a lecture about John Colter, the first white man who entered the region later known as Yellowstone NP.

John Colter was a member of the Lewis and Clark expedition, and after reaching the Pacific Ocean, on the return trip he split with the main group and explored new territories alone. He traveled through the Yellowstone area in the middle of the 1807 winter alone. He contacted several Indian tribes in his journey. His harrowing encounter with the Blackfeet Indians was the inspiration for the movie "The Naked Prey".

When we visited the NPs, we spent quite a bit of time at the visitor center and learned many things we would not discover on our own. And learning historical facts while right in the environment makes it much more enjoyable.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:19 AM   #62
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I am sure there are a few purists that would want the natural state of the parks brought back. Remove the visitor centers, block off the roads and paved trails. Keep it natural, without any humans entering the environment to corrupt it.
I'm not that much of a purist. But it would be great if visitors had to park outside the park, and ride electric tour buses to the sights and trailheads.

BTW isn't it funny how we park in the driveway, and drive on the parkway?
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:26 AM   #63
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I'm not that much of a purist. But it would be great if visitors had to park outside the park, and ride electric tour buses to the sights and trailheads.
They aren't electric but that's exactly what the process is to visit Bandelier National Monument from Mid May to Mid October.
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Bandelier access by shuttle only 9 am to 3 pm May 16 - October 16, 2019
Access to Bandelier National Monument and the Frijoles Canyon Visitor Center is by shuttle bus only, May 16-October 16, from 9am to 3pm 7 days a week. Shuttle pickup currently is only at the White Rock Visitor Center.
https://www.nps.gov/band/index.htm
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:50 AM   #64
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I think Zion has shuttle service and you cannot drive around. Glad I went before that happened.
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:23 PM   #65
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I'm not that much of a purist. But it would be great if visitors had to park outside the park, and ride electric tour buses to the sights and trailheads.

BTW isn't it funny how we park in the driveway, and drive on the parkway?

Visit Zion National Park starting in April or May. Your wish has been granted.
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Old 10-15-2019, 02:23 PM   #66
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Yes, that's the price for the lifetime Senior Pass. The annual Senior Pass is $20.

https://www.nps.gov/planyourvisit/se...ss-changes.htm
Yes, we just bought one for DW (I'll get in "free" if she takes me).
Note that for a retired couple, only 1 need buy the pass.

I made the statistical calculation that DW would outlive me, so she got it !
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Old 10-15-2019, 02:30 PM   #67
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Yes, we just bought one for DW (I'll get in "free" if she takes me).
Note that for a retired couple, only 1 need buy the pass.

I made the statistical calculation that DW would outlive me, so she got it !
Good move.

Back before the price changed in 2017 and they were only $10, both DW and I got one. Like you point out, you really only need one but if you lose it you have to pay full price for a new one. I figured $10 was cheap replacement insurance.
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National Parks Proposal
Old 10-15-2019, 02:42 PM   #68
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National Parks Proposal

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Note that for a retired couple, only 1 need buy the pass.
The park people said that DW and I each needed our own pass in case one of us comes to a park without the other. They said that I can’t use her pass and vice versus. So we each bought one @ $10 each.
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Old 10-18-2019, 03:53 PM   #69
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south carolina

I prefer South Carolina's decentralized approach to amenities and management.

While the staff remain government employees, and the land is government owned: the facility development, roads, and salaries are paid by park users.

Rather than use the parks as a political football, it is up to local park rangers, employees and managers to figure out what paying users want and are willing to pay for. As well as how to collect and manage the funds. They become stewards and custodians of the facility. Much like managing a non profit.

That means the park does not close during fiscal emergency of the moment, and decisions are made locally, not remotely.

This has worked very well in SC. I'd like to think it could be applied nationally as well, or at least on an individual facility basis.
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Old 10-18-2019, 06:25 PM   #70
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Private companies will destroy the national parks. Their first concern is profit. First concern for national parks should be protection and enjoyment/appreciation by the people.



Private companies don't care about anything but their bottom line. The two just don't mix.
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Old 10-18-2019, 07:18 PM   #71
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Private companies will destroy the national parks. Their first concern is profit. First concern for national parks should be protection and enjoyment/appreciation by the people.

Private companies don't care about anything but their bottom line. The two just don't mix.
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Old 10-18-2019, 07:52 PM   #72
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Private companies will destroy the national parks. Their first concern is profit. First concern for national parks should be protection and enjoyment/appreciation by the people.

Private companies don't care about anything but their bottom line. The two just don't mix.
Presumably the contracts would, in some manner, include performance standards for 'protection and enjoyment/appreciation by the people'
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Old 10-18-2019, 08:32 PM   #73
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Uh huh.
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Old 10-19-2019, 12:37 AM   #74
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If I am camping, I don’t expect places to shop. And a separate matter, lots of us old folks have lifetime passes that won’t generate much profit for a concessionaire.
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Old 10-19-2019, 04:55 AM   #75
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I prefer South Carolina's decentralized approach to amenities and management.

While the staff remain government employees, and the land is government owned: the facility development, roads, and salaries are paid by park users.

Rather than use the parks as a political football, it is up to local park rangers, employees and managers to figure out what paying users want and are willing to pay for. As well as how to collect and manage the funds. They become stewards and custodians of the facility. Much like managing a non profit.

That means the park does not close during fiscal emergency of the moment, and decisions are made locally, not remotely.

This has worked very well in SC. I'd like to think it could be applied nationally as well, or at least on an individual facility basis.
Hi neighbor.

In NC, we take a hybrid approach. All (~35) of our state parks are free (funded through state taxes) for admission, and are open every day but Christmas. There are a few "recreation areas" that charge a per car entrance fee for the upgraded amenities. It works well for us. We visit several parks each year with some perennial favorites. We do some limited volunteer support each year as well. A little skin in the game is important for us, but that's just us.
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:58 AM   #76
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Hi neighbor.

In NC, we take a hybrid approach. All (~35) of our state parks are free (funded through state taxes) for admission, and are open every day but Christmas. There are a few "recreation areas" that charge a per car entrance fee for the upgraded amenities. It works well for us. We visit several parks each year with some perennial favorites. We do some limited volunteer support each year as well. A little skin in the game is important for us, but that's just us.
Our 35 state parks and forests here in CT are a mixed bag. Some are completely free, some charge for parking, some charge for camping, some for both and 3 of them charge a tour fee. Vehicles with CT license plates don't pay the parking fees, because we all pay a mandatory $10 "passport to the parks" fee when we renew our car registration.
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Old 10-19-2019, 10:27 AM   #77
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Keep in mind that government (local, state and federal) collaborated with business to dam Yosemite National Park and flood the Hetch Hetchy Valley for San Francisco's water supply. With today's crowding in Yosemite Valley a 2nd such valley would be a wonderful resource. Alas, it's under 300 feet of water. A proposal in the 1980's by the Regan administration to remove the dam went nowhere for a number of reasons, good and bad.

Public outrage was so great that a few years later Congress tightened up the laws concerning National Parks to ensure the parks were be preserved for the enjoyment of all. Nevertheless, it did happen and with the approval of Congress.
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Old 10-19-2019, 12:49 PM   #78
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The first line in the article cited:

"A Trump administration advisory panel is recommending an ambitious plan to give private businesses greater access to national parks, according to a memorandum written by an advisory council for the Department of the Interior."

I'm strongly opposed to this. National parks do not need "greater business access". If people want to shop, they can go to their local mall. I hear they're not crowded. If they want WiFi and other amenities, they can do what people already do: stay in motels just outside the park boundaries.

The National Park Service has been starved for adequate funds for years. They do a remarkable job despite that. Entrance fees and some pass fees have gone dramatically up in the past two years. I'm glad that I was able to get a Senior lifetime pass for just $10 when I turned 62.

I just returned from a trip to the southwest and visited at least 9 federal facilities including 5 national parks. This was not my first time in the region, but I never cease to be amazed by the incredible landscapes and scenery in that region. I've been fortunate to have been able to travel a lot throughout the world, but the western USA has the most magnificent and diverse scenery and sights of any region I know.
+1 (and we are OH so grateful for DH's Golden Pass... Most of our vacations are to parks across the US). It doesn't take much planning to take in what you want (and take it with you when you go).
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Old 10-19-2019, 01:40 PM   #79
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If I am camping, I don’t expect places to shop. And a separate matter, lots of us old folks have lifetime passes that won’t generate much profit for a concessionaire.
When I worked at yellowstone that one year, it was eye opening the expectations of the public. We did have several people stop by to ask us (we were on the side of the road working) where the nearest shopping mall was. The answer actually was in Bozeman MT. But we did ask ourselves " did those people see any shopping malls on the way into the park? did they think we had them hidden somewhere?"
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Old 10-19-2019, 01:43 PM   #80
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Maybe if they raised the prices, it would cure some of the overcrowding and attendant strain on the infrastructure.
I think it should be the opposite. National Parks should have free admission to any legal resident. There should be a fee for anyone from another country who has a Passport(maybe $50/nt, $100/3 days, $200/wk). You shouldn't have to be financially we off to visit National Parks. Also, I feel that the parks should be left as close as possible to their natural state while still being safe for visitors.
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