Overtourism

[Nemo2]

However, my idea of a nightmare is sitting down to lunch [-]with 40 people[/-] at a restaurant.

Us too!

 

[braumeister]

I suspect it was prearranged, and they went to a special seating area that handles tour groups. It’s a large restaurant.

However, my idea of a nightmare is sitting down to lunch with 40 people at a restaurant. Hate large group restaurant dining.

[shudder]
Group meals are absolutely the worst part of organized tours. We avoid them like the plague.

 

[Lsbcal]

...
However, my idea of a nightmare is sitting down to lunch with 40 people at a restaurant. Hate large group restaurant dining.

It's especially delightful when people start cranking up the volume to be heard above the din.

 

[Chuckanut]

However, my idea of a nightmare is sitting down to lunch with 40 people at a restaurant. Hate large group restaurant dining.

I've been on a tour where there is large group dining. Generally, the group is split into smaller tables with 4-6 people at each table. Service is prompt and we often had a choice of our main course - meat dish, fish, vegetarian, or local specialty. People with special dietary conditions are almost always accommodated if it is known ahead of time. 99% of the time, it's all very tasty. I guess there are probably very cheap tours that are unpleasant, but I have never experienced one.

I have also traveled quite a bit on my own. I prefer that method myself. But, it isn't because of group meals.

 

[braumeister]

I've been on a tour where there is large group dining. Generally, the group is split into smaller tables with 4-6 people at each table. Service is prompt and we often had a choice of our main course - meat dish, fish, vegetarian, or local specialty.

Actually, that's the sort of arrangement I was thinking of, and still horrible. I don't even want to contemplate a group all sitting at one huge table.

 

[Souschef]

Actually, that's the sort of arrangement I was thinking of, and still horrible. I don't even want to contemplate a group all sitting at one huge table.

I agree, the banquet meals suck. We did a 7 day bus tour of Ireland, with the same kind of overcooked food. After that, we traveled to tEngland's Lake District to a charming small hotel. It was such a pleasure to sit by ourselves and order food the way we wanted it prepared.
By the way, Tauck Tours (high end), features choice of menu and dine when you like.

 

[explanade]

I've looked at some guided tour itineraries to get an idea of the pace and how many destinations they try to hit.

Never look at the restaurants and hotels they use. Restaurants aren't usually listed in their itineraries at least before you buy the tour.

 

[brett]

We make it a point to never eat in tourist restaurants or eat in any restaurant where the menu is written is several languages. If we enter a restaurant in, say Italy or Greece, and all we hear is English we tend to leave and go elsewhere. We can do that just as easily in our home town.

 

[brett]

duplicate

 

[braumeister]

By the way, Tauck Tours (high end), features choice of menu and dine when you like.

That's good to know. We're doing our first Tauck tour next year. Once in a while I just don't want to deal with all the planning for a trip in a new country.

 

[Souschef]

That's good to know. We're doing our first Tauck tour next year. Once in a while I just don't want to deal with all the planning for a trip in a new country.

We have taken two, and enjoyed them both. You are put up at high end hotels in the center of town. I have attached stories of the two we have taken,

 

[audreyh1]

[shudder]
Group meals are absolutely the worst part of organized tours. We avoid them like the plague.

That's why, if we choose to go on a group tour, we stick with small groups.

No way you'd get me on a bus tour with 40 people! Let alone eating restaurant meals with them.

 

[audreyh1]

I agree, the banquet meals suck. We did a 7 day bus tour of Ireland, with the same kind of overcooked food. After that, we traveled to tEngland's Lake District to a charming small hotel. It was such a pleasure to sit by ourselves and order food the way we wanted it prepared.
By the way, Tauck Tours (high end), features choice of menu and dine when you like.

So meals are included, and they choose the restaurants?

 

[Souschef]

So meals are included, and they choose the restaurants?

Yes, in most cases, they are the restaurant in the hotel. You get choice of menu, instead of being herded into a banquet room and being fed mystery meat.
I agree about small tours. The tours I took with Odysseys Unlimited we with about 20 people.
I once figured that if everyone on the bus takes an average of 30 seconds to get on or off the bus, It is 40 minutes at each stop.

 

[Lsbcal]

That's why, if we choose to go on a group tour, we stick with small groups.

No way you'd get me on a bus tour with 40 people! Let alone eating restaurant meals with them.

What size would you consider small groups?

Rick Steves tours are something like 25 or less. Dining as a group was sometimes not so good especially on one of the first nights when the din in a cavelike setting was too much.

The Rabbie's tour we took for a few days in Scotland (from Edinburgh) was something like 16 max. On the Rabbie's tour we were on our own for dining which worked out nicely.

 

[Nemo2]

There are only two of us on our 'tours'...and DW often says that's too many.

 

[NW-Bound]

... I once figured that if everyone on the bus takes an average of 30 seconds to get on or off the bus, It is 40 minutes at each stop.

20 minutes for the busload to disembark, another 20 minutes to get back on the bus? How long to go to the restroom, or wherever?

Aye, aye, aye... Do the passengers have mobility restriction? I am glad I have never taken a tour. When I get that old and weak, maybe I will just stay home and watch Travel TV or Youtube. Or go on a cruise ship and don't get off till the end.

 

[athena53]

We are in our late 60's. We have not done many cruises since retiring. They don't often go where we want to go, and when they do there is not enough time for us and far too many people in the area. Nor do we want to stay in a standard hotel room cabin for days on end, come back from a crowded shore tour for our roast beef dinner at a cost of missing out on the local charms, culture, food, etc.

I LOVE "free-form" travel in most places. Last year I made a trip to Edinburgh with little more than an Airbnb reservation. I decided to go to Dundee one day after researching it the previous evening and finding that the ship "Discovery" (which explored the Antarctic) was docked there, refurbished, with a fantastic museum. Then, in the Dundee train station I saw a brochure for The Surgeon's Museum back in Edinburgh, remembered it from the show "Mysteries at the Museum" and spent a fascinating day there. I decided to hike up Arthur's Seat 3 days in a row. None of this was in any plan before I left. And rainy days are definitely "museum days".

I choose cruises and organized tours for more remote places, those better visited by small ship, and places where I'm less familiar with the culture or the language. I'd been to India many times on business and knew it wasn't a great place for a woman traveling alone- you can get a driver (you do not DARE drive yourself and some public transportation is pretty sketchy) but that's very isolating. I took a small (12-person) tour to India and Nepal.

And I have to admit that once I get on a tour or a cruise, it's nice to know that if something goes wrong it's not my job to fix it!

 

[audreyh1]

What size would you consider small groups?

Rick Steves tours are something like 25 or less. Dining as a group was sometimes not so good especially on one of the first nights when the din in a cavelike setting was too much.

The Rabbie's tour we took for a few days in Scotland (from Edinburgh) was something like 16 max. On the Rabbie's tour we were on our own for dining which worked out nicely.

We prefer groups of 8 people or less, although a bit larger - 12 isn't too horrible. We've traveled with a couple of groups that were slightly larger (15-16 max) and used two vans. Can still be OK.

This Nat Geo paleontology tour we are going on soon has up to 25 people and uses a larger bus. Seating is quite generous because there are way more seats in the bus than people.

And I looked at how they were handling the meals, and all dinners are at the hotel where we are staying. We are staying in some very nice hotels known for their gastronomy - one is a parador in Spain (2 nights), another a smaller inn on the Vézère river (Dordogne region of France) with a famous restaurant (4 nights), so those should be enjoyable. Some lunches and one dinner are on our own.

Obviously all pre-arranged, so we'll see how it goes, but I'm not too worried. It will definitely be a relief not to have to travel somewhere as a group for dinner. But that may be the last "larger" group land tour for us.

 

[YVRRocketSurgery]

Probably a bylaw enacted due to the effects of overtourism...
You no longer can sit on Rome's Spanish Steps. It's a 400E fine.

 

[Scuba]

We are in our late 60's. We have not done many cruises since retiring. They don't often go where we want to go, and when they do there is not enough time for us and far too many people in the area. Nor do we want to stay in a standard hotel room cabin for days on end, come back from a crowded shore tour for our roast beef dinner at a cost of missing out on the local charms, culture, food, etc.

After many years of very structured/organized business travel most of our travel is spontaneous. We sometimes book end with flights but in between is usually only booked 3-5 days in advance. We avoid the tourist traps and for some more popular spots we only visit on shoulder season. We do two longer trips a year, 2-3 months each. Next month we fly east to visit relatives for a week then fly to Athens. Seven weeks later we fly home from London. London is a great hub. We did not have our itinerary sketched out but this works well. Besides, the airfare was incredible. Plus, we only travel with a 20" carry on roller each. Everyone we know heads south to Arizona, Florida, TX, HI etc. but this is not for us.

No tours yet though we will occasionally take tours with locals. I may do my first group tour to India in the near future. Mys spouse is not keen to go so I may sign up for a 2 week tour plus a week of independent travel either before or after.

Travel is not as expensive as one might imagine. We tend to stay in smaller family owned hotels or B&B's. The trick is not to expect to always stay in 4/5/6 star US style hotels and eat where and what the locals do. Every year in Thailand we see people spending bags of money to stay in large hotels and eat western meals without every eating the fabulous local food. So instead of paying $15 for a wonderful meal for two they spend as much as $40 for a few very mediocre hamburgers etc at some 'hip' place that caters to foreigners. Why even bother going? Exact same, different cost, in Europe.

How do we select. We have our favourites in the winter...Thailand, Vietnam and Europe the fall...Greece, Italy, Croatia, Turkey, Spain, Portugal, where ever really. Selecting really comes down to a convoluted intersection of our respective bucket lists, currency, weather, flight costs or routes, etc. And always very much subject to great last minute travel offers that we do not want to pass up.

We changed our lifestyle. Downsized to a home that is lock and leave. No pets, no plants. HOA does all the gardening and snow removal. Kind neighbour checks the house. Everything possible has been moved to the web instead of hard copy mail.

It is not for everyone and perhaps it is a crazy way to travel at our age. But this is what we are doing for now....already discussing the winter trip even though the Sept/Oct trip needs some work.

Brett, you are my travel idol! We have started taking longer trips - 6 weeks to 3 months - since our ER, but haven’t gotten brave enough not to have prearranged lodging and transportation reservations. Someday!

 

[Lsbcal]

We prefer groups of 8 people or less, although a bit larger - 12 isn't too horrible. We've traveled with a couple of groups that were slightly larger (15-16 max) and used two vans. Can still be OK.

This Nat Geo paleontology tour we are going on soon has up to 25 people and uses a larger bus. Seating is quite generous because there are way more seats in the bus than people.

And I looked at how they were handling the meals, and all dinners are at the hotel where we are staying. We are staying in some very nice hotels known for their gastronomy - one is a parador in Spain (2 nights), another a smaller inn on the Vézère river (Dordogne region of France) with a famous restaurant (4 nights), so those should be enjoyable. Some lunches and one dinner are on our own.

Obviously all pre-arranged, so we'll see how it goes, but I'm not too worried. It will definitely be a relief not to have to travel somewhere as a group for dinner. But that may be the last "larger" group land tour for us.

Sounds like a fascinating tour. I hope you tell us how it went.

 

[NW-Bound]

Brett, you are my travel idol! We have started taking longer trips - 6 weeks to 3 months - since our ER, but haven’t gotten brave enough not to have prearranged lodging and transportation reservations. Someday!

That's too tough for us too.

The only time I traveled without prebooked lodging and transportation was when I did RV'ing. It's because the motorhome is both my lodging and transportation. Duh!

 

[audreyh1]

Sounds like a fascinating tour. I hope you tell us how it went.

Touring ancient cave art sites in northern Spain and southwestern France. We decided it was worth traveling with experts - well known paleontologist with the tour and more paleontologists doing the work at each site to interpret for our group. Some serious traveling neighbors did it last year and thought it was fantastic.

 

[NW-Bound]

I knew of the French Lascaux cave, but not of the ones in Northern Spain, where I was a few months ago. Next time in the region, I will go take a look.

Yes, you can never see it all. Most places can be revisited a few times.

PS. Will I add to overtourism there? The Lascaux cave is well known, but the Spanish ones hopefully are not.