Overtourism

[rocketjockey]

At least in my neck of the woods, I blame the staggering increase of tourists on the financial prosperity of China. Hundreds of millions of middle-class Chinese have been unleashed onto the world tourist sights.

 

[audreyh1]

We were there for a week in early 2014, when there was a newly instituted ban on cruise ships. I believe the ban was overturned in court later that year. It was nice to have fewer people crowding the streets, although it was still quite busy in the Piazza San Marco.

Apparently it’s back on, but delayed until 2021 or something.

 

[audreyh1]

At least in my neck of the woods, I blame the staggering increase of tourists on the financial prosperity of China. Hundreds of millions of middle-class Chinese have been unleashed onto the world tourist sights.

This is very noticeable in Europe, and they are usually the ones hogging scenic spots while taking tons of selfies or of each other.

 

[NW-Bound]

I remember in the late 80s, Hawaii was overran by Japanese tourists. Stores everywhere had signs in Japanese. Now, it's the Chinese, but they travel further now, just like every nationality does now.

In the recent RV trip, driving down I-15 I stopped for fuel about 100 miles north of Salt Lake City. This Love's or Pilot truck stop had signs in Chinese. What? Just as we lingered there to rest, I saw a big tour bus pulling in to drop off the Chinese tourists to use the restroom and to buy snacks.

What were they doing passing through here? Then, it dawned on me that they were going to or from Yellowstone NP to Las Vegas, or perhaps LA.

Well, they have money now, and they can afford to travel just like everyone else. It's all fair, I guess.

 

[LRDave]

We've had this dream to go hike between the towns of the Cinque Terre when the weather is nice, after ER and while we are still young enough to enjoy it. Sadly, I am not sure there is an intersection point that doesn't include overcrowding.

 

[gerntz]

It is everywhere. We went on a trip last late winter to a Mediterranean area and the tourism was crushing, despite lousy weather.

On another thread we were talking about hiking in the USA and how the trails are overflowing and metered in many places.

"Experiences, not things."

nm

 

[gerntz]

We've had this dream to go hike between the towns of the Cinque Terre when the weather is nice, after ER and while we are still young enough to enjoy it. Sadly, I am not sure there is an intersection point that doesn't include overcrowding.

We did that back ~2005. Was somewhat crowded but still great. Went back 2016 & crowds were near unbearable - in early Oct.

 

[Scrapr]

When we went to the Louvre a few years ago we tried to see the Mona Lisa, but it looked much like this, probably worse. We could barely get into the room. We didn't notice anyone being aggressive, but the crowd wasn't moving and I don't know how long, if ever, we'd have had to wait to get a good view. We just moved on. Not a big deal to us.

We were there in '17. The "mob" moved pretty regular. A few would get to the front then cycle on back. Mrs Scrapr got a couple of hard pushes and almost knocked her down. She guessed nationality as Eastern Europe. Apparently pickpockets work that room pretty regular. By the time we finished in mid afternoon the tour groups were getting kind of annoying. 25 people huddle around a sculpture as their guide talks through their headset. Very difficult for anyone else to see the sculpture

Don't tell anyone...we liked the D'Orsay better

Here is a story about the town next to Venice

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/10/travel/venice-treviso-overtourism.html?searchResultPosition=1

 

[Sunset]

At least in my neck of the woods, I blame the staggering increase of tourists on the financial prosperity of China. Hundreds of millions of middle-class Chinese have been unleashed onto the world tourist sights.

When we were in Barcelona, at Park Quell , a Chinese lady wanted to buy a souvenir, it was pricey at about 60 Euros.
The clerk was pretty happy someone was going to spend more than me (a fridge magnet).
But he nearly exploded when she pulled out a 500 Euro bill, he gave her a lecture on how it was insulting to show that much money.

I always try to get a bunch of low value bills in a different country, but maybe the Chinese don't have credit cards ? so they need to carry lots of cash ??

 

[marko]

We used to live on the Seine diagonally across from the Louvre. There is always a line to get in. (Insider hint: it is open one night and there's never anyone there...and it may still be free as well)

I wonder if, because Notre Dame is closed (another crowded area) if the crowds are worse (doubled) because half the tourists should be at Notre Dame but have fewer places to go now.

 

[Gumby]

The was a huge crowd of people like that around the Mona Lisa when we went to the Louvre 25 years ago, although she did not have her own special room back then.

 

[Bamaman]

We just returned from Paris last night. I had put all my preparation into Madrid, Granada and Barcelona, and didn't realize the more popular Paris attractions require purchasing tickets prior online. We had to substitute the D'Orsay for the Louvre, however the Louvre can get pretty overwhelming anyway.

Paris had the D Day anniversary, the French Open (tennis) and the huge soccer tournament for women going on at the same time--and we didn't feel any of them. It's a big city that can handle traffic. We did find many Far Easterners in town, and they were very rude and difficult to deal with in tight places and ques.

We were traveling later in the year than usual due to taking our 7 year old granddaughter. European air conditioning is still not up to North American standards, and we were quite uncomfortable generally in public places. Future trips will not be in June-August.

There are still many off the beaten path cities to visit in Europe. Now that we're of real retirement age, we still plan to visit new places while the "gettin's good". Our biggest gripe on the trip is very negative experiences in airports--specifically Charles de Gaulle and Boston Logan Airport.

And as always, we're very glad to get home and return to our daily routine. I just fear all those charge card transactions beat me home.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

We just returned from Paris last night. I had put all my preparation into Madrid, Granada and Barcelona, and didn't realize the more popular Paris attractions require purchasing tickets prior online. We had to substitute the D'Orsay for the Louvre, however the Louvre can get pretty overwhelming anyway.

Paris had the D Day anniversary, the French Open (tennis) and the huge soccer tournament for women going on at the same time--and we didn't feel any of them. It's a big city that can handle traffic. We did find many Far Easterners in town, and they were very rude and difficult to deal with in tight places and ques.

We were traveling later in the year than usual due to taking our 7 year old granddaughter. European air conditioning is still not up to North American standards, and we were quite uncomfortable generally in public places. Future trips will not be in June-August.

There are still many off the beaten path cities to visit in Europe. Now that we're of real retirement age, we still plan to visit new places while the "gettin's good". Our biggest gripe on the trip is very negative experiences in airports--specifically Charles de Gaulle and Boston Logan Airport.

And as always, we're very glad to get home and return to our daily routine. I just fear all those charge card transactions beat me home.

A guide in Xian told me, "there is no personal space in China." I experienced a similar custom in Arab nations.

My sister, who lived in China for 5 years, sees it this way: the people lack trust in their society, so they push to get ahead because there may not be enough for all. Go to Walmart when the store opens on Black Friday and you'll see the same behavior.

 

[Rex]

Travel off season......We went to London and Paris last January. Weather in the 50's. No crowds. Versaille to ourselves. Windsor Castle all ours. Locals were "the crowd" and the folks were glad to see us and take their time to chat.

Our plan is to never travel "in season". We will see how it goes when we head to Florence/Venice in late October.

 

[neihn]

We were in Europe last April. Although, it is still off-season, it is still very crowded in Venice, Rome, Paris, Bruges, Amsterdam, Berlin. I can't image in-season.

Overtourism is real.

 

[NW-Bound]

Yes, more and more people travel in late spring, so that does not help as much as it did.

Some years ago we travel in late November, and it was not bad. But that was 12 years ago.

A problem with winter travel is that the days are so short, you do not have time to do much. I still remember at 5PM walking through an empty park in Prague trying to find my way back to the hotel from the train station. I was afraid of getting robbed at any time.

 

[Souschef]

Here is a story about the town next to Venice

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/10/travel/venice-treviso-overtourism.html?searchResultPosition=1

You do not have to get out of Venice, just away from Piazza San Marco. I once read that to discover Venice one must get lost in Venice. I decided to walk from San Marco to the Piazzle Romana, across from the Ferrovia (Railroad Station.) On many buildings there are arrows pointing to either San Marco or the Ferrovia.


Armed with a map, I discovered a large plaza with almost nobody there. I sat there just absorbing the local color by myself. It was an absolute delight.


On another visit, we bought an all day ticket for the Vaporettos. We stopped at the island of Burano to watch lace making, then to Murano for glass blowing. We rode the Vaporetttos all day, finishing up with a cruise down the Grand Canal to the Doge's Palace.
We ended our day at an outdoor cafe at sunset, watching the setting sun illuminate the windows of the Santa Maria Della Salute.

 

[Bestwifeever]

We were in a very crowded room in Dublin looking at the Book of Kells last year. I realized that most of the people trying to get close to the display cases probably had no real interest or knowledge of the illuminated manuscript, but it was one of the must things to see in Dublin. I told DH (in the small percentage of people who really did want to see this) I had to leave, as I was just helping to make the room crowded, and escaped to make room for others. IMO often we are part of the overtourism. Do we deserve to be somewhere more than any other tourists?

I'm conflicted about going to the Galapagos, something on DH's bucket list before there even were bucket lists, for the same reason, but I know visitors are carefully managed there so that their impact is minimized, so we will probably plan a trip for year after next (DH said he won't go if I don't, so there we are).

A lot of overtourism in Europe will disappear if the dollar weakens against the euro and the pound.

 

[NW-Bound]

... IMO often we are part of the overtourism. Do we deserve to be somewhere more than any other tourists?
...
A lot of overtourism in Europe will disappear if the dollar weakens against the euro and the pound.

We were in Venice in 2003 during a recession, and the crowd was not too bad considering that it was carnival time.

Still, to get away from it for a bit, we took the ferry to Lido to see what it was about, and wandered the streets for a few hours, then had pizza at a neighborhood place. No tourists bothered to go there (there was not much there either ).

 

[RunningBum]

A lot of overtourism in Europe will disappear if the dollar weakens against the euro and the pound.

Is the overcrowding due to Americans though? Others have said there's a large influx of Chinese.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Is the overcrowding due to Americans though? Others have said there's a large influx of Chinese.

Definitely not Chinese in Dublin. Or Spain or Greece, imo, in the other two European hotspots we were at in the last six months. Americans and other Europeans. Walking to the money shot location in Santorini at dusk on tiny sidewalks was taking your life into your own hands (again, I removed myself from the situation).

Ireland, Spain, and Greece do really need the $$ from tourists, though, so there's that.

 

[NW-Bound]

I could post the photo I took of the long line of people at Martim Moniz Square in Lisbon waiting to board the famed Tram 28. Few Asians there. They were French, English, Americans, Germans, Scandinavians. But it might be because the Chinese tended to travel in guided tours, and it was not possible for a tour group to participate in certain activities. And speaking of guided tours, I saw plenty of tour groups consisting of English and German elderly people in many touristy towns.

I think we are in a prosperous time, when a lot of people can travel. Is that good or bad?

I may have to go back to Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, and Alaska and the Yukon soon, in order to see the places that I missed in earlier RV treks before it's too late.

 

[athena53]

Boy, did that shot of the Mona Lisa bring back memories.

DH and I went to Paris in 2013 and never got near the Mona Lisa or the Venus de Milo when we visited the Louvre. Not worth it, in our opinions. Heck, we couldn't even find our way out. We'd hoped to avoid stairs because DH had a balance problem but the elevators seemed to be only for citizens with some sort of disabled certification. I remember telling a guard, "Je veux seulement echapper!" (I just want to escape) and her looking at me as if I were a bit crazy, which I was by that time.

We didn't like the d'Orsay, either. We were pretty much routed along a wall, behind people with iPads who would stop, take a photo of the painting, take a photo of the information panel, move on... that's not how to experience Impressionist paintings. One way is to start at the wall, but then back up and watch the picture emerge from the brush strokes. Impossible given the crowds. Fortunately I'd seen a podcast featuring an exhibit of Slovenian Impressionist paintings at a smaller museum (Le Petit Palais)- who knew there were Slovenian Impressionists?. We went over there and there were very few other tourists. It was wonderful. I was in Paris for a couple of days last October and mostly wandered. Beautiful weather, interesting architecture, people-watching. I loved it even though I missed the "must-see" spots.

I know that, being a tourist, I'm part of the horde so I can't complain- but from now on my tactic in the overcrowded areas will be to find the lesser-known museums, the less- traveled cities for day trips, etc. There's still plenty to see without standing in line.

 

[NW-Bound]

In an RV trip a few years ago, we encountered French tour groups at Glen Canyon Dam. More French people at Zion and Bryce NPs. Scandinavians too.

Of course it was not at all crowded at the level of European tourist spots. And I do not mind them coming here to spend some money.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Boy, did that shot of the Mona Lisa bring back memories.

DH and I went to Paris in 2013 and never got near the Mona Lisa or the Venus de Milo. Not worth it, in our opinions. We didn't like the d'Orsay, either. were pretty much routed along a wall, behind people with iPads who would stop, take a photo of the painting, take a photo of the information panel, move on... that's not how to experience Impressionist paintings. One way is to start at the wall, but then back up and watch the picture emerge from the brush strokes. Impossible given the crowds. Fortunately I'd seen a podcast featuring an exhibit of Slovenian Impressionist paintings at a smaller museum (Le Petit Palais)- who knew there were Slovenian Impressionists?. We went over there and there were very few other tourists. It was wonderful. I was in Paris for a couple of days last October and mostly wandered. Beautiful weather, interesting architecture, people-watching. I loved it even though I missed the "must-see" spots.

I know that, being a tourist, I'm part of the horde so I can't complain- but from now on my tactic in the overcrowded areas will be to find the lesser-known museums, the less- traveled cities for day trips, etc. There's still plenty to see without standing in line.

Sooo much to see. I'm lucky to be married to an artist and lucky to have first been at the Louvre with him way back in April 1977 when it was virtually empty. I have to laugh that if we suggest going to an art museum to most people they either gag or can't wait to get it over with--every city has amazing art galleries but the only one the typical tourist or tour group wants to see is the Louvre. In Dublin we spent as much time at the also virtually empty (and free) National Gallery of Ireland as our traveling companions would let us, to see paintings by Irish artists, like Jack B. Yeats from 1915: