Rick Steves’ Fascism in Europe

[steelyman]

I’ve got no stories of amazing personal travel because I’m currently a homebody by choice but... I did catch a program shown tonight on PBS called “Rick Steves: The Story of Fascism in Europe” that I thought was excellent. It’s pretty recent (2018) and has many sites and video from the times leading up to WWII, all with a travel flavor as you’d expect. The accompanying commentary (even on the PBS pledge breaks!) is very relevant.

Check it out if you see it on your guide.

 

[gauss]

Here is a link that I found for this:
https://www.pbs.org/video/the-story-of-fascism-in-europe-pthanf/

-gauss

 

[gerntz]

Thanks. I watch a lot of his shows, but didn't know he was a historian.

 

[steelyman]

Yes, thanks for finding and posting that link!

I never thought I’d say this, but the pledge breaks were actually worthwhile to watch and contained interviews with and clips of lectures by Steves. They were not the usual Boomer-targeted sales pitches. So if you can find the 1.5 hour long airing, take a look/listen.

 

[Bamaman]

As someone that's been traveling heavily in Europe since 1970, I've never experienced the history of WWII and times leading up to it being really covered very well. Sure, I've been to some death camps and Jewish ghettos. But I cannot say Germany and most Western European countries have gone out of their way to push historical sights and the complete truth about what happened. We do have relatives that lived through the 30's in Dresden, and they have great stories about immigrating to NYC.

 

[gauss]

Scary stuff.

 

[steelyman]

As someone that's been traveling heavily in Europe since 1970, I've never experienced the history of WWII and times leading up to it being really covered very well. Sure, I've been to some death camps and Jewish ghettos. But I cannot say Germany and most Western European countries have gone out of their way to push historical sights and the complete truth about what happened. We do have relatives that lived through the 30's in Dresden, and they have great stories about immigrating to NYC.

Now that I have time (retired, after all), I’ve enjoyed learning more of history. WWII-focused pieces I like so far have been “World At War”, “World War II in Colour” (Netflix), “The War” (Ken Burns, mostly US-oriented).

I think you also have to consider WWI when thinking of WWII in context. There are good documentaries on streaming.

 

[Senator]

Interesting. Luckily our founding fathers put in protections for the citizens so that Fascism, or a rogue king, could not do this to the people.

 

[RobbieB]

One can only hope.

 

[6miths]

One can only hope.

+1

 

[Sunset]

As someone that's been traveling heavily in Europe since 1970, I've never experienced the history of WWII and times leading up to it being really covered very well. Sure, I've been to some death camps and Jewish ghettos. But I cannot say Germany and most Western European countries have gone out of their way to push historical sights and the complete truth about what happened. We do have relatives that lived through the 30's in Dresden, and they have great stories about immigrating to NYC.

When we were touring in Germany, the tour guide complained to us about the bombing of the site by the Allies, and how it wasn't needed.
I held my tongue, how if they had not elected Hitler, it would not have happened.

 

[DrRoy]

Thanks. I watch a lot of his shows, but didn't know he was a historian.

+1 He did a pretty good job.

 

[Chuckanut]

One can only hope.

+1

Having grown up in the Free Speech time of the 60's and 70's I am shocked at how eager many people are today to give up their rights if it means they can get their way in the short term. They seem to assume they will be in charge forever. Worse they don't realize that people on their side may turn on them at some point over the slightest disagreement.

One of my favorite quotes from "A Man for All Seasons"

“Thomas More: ...And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned around on you--where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast--man's laws, not God's--and if you cut them down...d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake.”

 

[Gumby]

One of my favorites as well. When contemplating any new rule or law that would restrict other people's rights, always best to ask "What if it is applied to me at some time in the future?" Conversely, when doing away with some old law or rule that seemingly hinders progress without good reason, always best to think of Chesterton's Fence.

 

[tfudtuckerpucker]

When we were touring in Germany, the tour guide complained to us about the bombing of the site by the Allies, and how it wasn't needed.
I held my tongue, how if they had not elected Hitler, it would not have happened.

Maybe I would have asked him "was heisst 'Coventrieren'"?

(explain to me the word "Coventrieren")

But only if you want to start an argument.

 

[razztazz]

When we were touring in Germany, the tour guide complained to us about the bombing of the site by the Allies, and how it wasn't needed. I held my tongue, how if they had not elected Hitler, it would not have happened.

In defense of a democratic system, Hitler wasn't elected. He was appointed by Hindenburg at the urging of several prominent businessmen and politicians. (Actually sounds familiar....?) Perhaps if The Volk had to have actually pulled the handle for him it would have gone the other way?

And there was a lot of unnecessary bombing in WWII. Even LeMay said we were committing war crimes except we won so it wasn't factor. And every post-war study I've ever read (not that they are all correct) indicates that the mass bombing of cities didn't do what we wanted it to.

 

[Walt34]

And there was a lot of unnecessary bombing in WWII. Even LeMay said we were committing war crimes except we won so it wasn't factor. And every post-war study I've ever read (not that they are all correct) indicates that the mass bombing of cities didn't do what we wanted it to.

The clarity of hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[bigreader]

I’ve got no stories of amazing personal travel because I’m currently a homebody by choice but... I did catch a program shown tonight on PBS called “Rick Steves: The Story of Fascism in Europe” that I thought was excellent. It’s pretty recent (2018) and has many sites and video from the times leading up to WWII, all with a travel flavor as you’d expect. The accompanying commentary (even on the PBS pledge breaks!) is very relevant.

Check it out if you see it on your guide.

Thank you very much for recommendation.

br

 

[target2019]

Show is on PBS app also.
Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[razztazz]

The clarity of hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Exactly. Altho LeMay sounded like he had some foresight on what he was doing

 

[travelover]

Exactly. Altho LeMay sounded like he had some foresight on what he was doing

Targeting civilians sounds like a great idea until your and yours are the civilians. That is why even warfare has rules.

 

[Senator]

In defense of a democratic system, Hitler wasn't elected. He was appointed by Hindenburg at the urging of several prominent businessmen and politicians. (Actually sounds familiar....?) Perhaps if The Volk had to have actually pulled the handle for him it would have gone the other way?

And there was a lot of unnecessary bombing in WWII. Even LeMay said we were committing war crimes except we won so it wasn't factor. And every post-war study I've ever read (not that they are all correct) indicates that the mass bombing of cities didn't do what we wanted it to.

Hitler received more votes than any other candidate. He just did not win 50%+. In a run-off, he may well have won. That is why he was appointed Chancellor, he had a lot of support.

When a dictator takes office, often they are elected. They they move on to take away rights of people and rule by tyranny. The USA has the Bill of Rights. And the means to protect it. The Second Amendment and the Electoral College are keys to this protection.

A dictatorship is the natural progression of government. The Founding fathers knew this.

 

[steelyman]

I’m pretty sure I posted this in the “What Have You Read” thread, but it might be interesting to mention here. It’s a 2018 book called How Democracies Die: What History Reveals About Our Future by Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt. There are many historical references describing governmental/political upheavals:

https://www.amazon.com/How-Democracies-Die-Steven-Levitsky/dp/1524762938

 

[Senator]

[-]I am curious. Has there ever been a fascist government, a dictatorship, or a tyrannical government , where the populace has the right to own firearms like the USA?

It would seems to me that exact right prevents a fascist government.[/-]

 

[Gumby]

[MOD HAT ON]I do not know the answer to your question, Senator. But I do know that we are treading very close to the edge of this Community Rule

Although we don't have a laundry list of inappropriate topics, discussion of subjects such as politics (unless directly related to early retirement), gun rights, religion and abortion rarely end well. For this reason the moderation team may close or remove discussions of these topics as well as any other topic deemed to be inappropriate,

I'm sure you don't want to lead your fellow members astray, so let's just leave it be. [MOD HAT OFF]