What RV and how to finance

[dtbach]

OK, I've finally decided the time to get an RV is here (since I have more time since I FIRE'd myself). I've narrowed my choice down to a class A (I like the view, don't want to have to own a big pickup for a fifth wheel, or a big car for a trailer). I plan to do some snowbirding but for perhaps 8-10 weeks max, otherwise mostly extended weekend and week long excursions. I would 90% of the time only sleep 2-4, otherwise rarely 6 max. I also plan to tow a small car to run around in with the RV parked.

What size RV would be appropriate for this use? I'm thinking in the 32-35 foot range but am just starting out my search so I could be off here.

As far as financing, I'm thinking of refinancing my home loan and just adding 50K on to the mortgage for the RV funds. So I'd appreciate comments on if 50K will get me what I need.

One last thing, I plan to buy a used 3-5 year old lightly used RV. Buying new is insane I think. I see LOTS of ads for used RV's at greatly reduced prices.

Thanks for any comments or advice you can give me!

 

[Brat]

Do what I did and buy the Consumer RV Group rating guide, the full meal deal (which also includes how to tow, how to inspect motor homes) for ~$135.

I gave their Class A & C, 4-star +, snowbird, 2005-2006 search a spin and didn't see anything you are likely to be able to purchase for $50,000.

According to that software 4 year old coach in average condition has depreciated 22%, 5 - 27%, 6 32% from their purchase price. The price field in their software would be the new price so if you are looking for a 5 year old coach and you want to pay $50,000 enter $69,000. The newest coach that meets the criteria is a 2004 Bigfoot. The coach is so well built the manufacturer is now out of business.

One thing I learned from their guides is that the ratio of motor home length to wheel base is very important. I thought a 28' would drive easier than a 30'. Not true because for almost all coach manufacturers that is the breaking point between wheel bases. Husband and I wandered around a RV lot a couple weeks ago and found that not all are manufactured to pull 5,000 lbs and wired for toad brakes. It isn't just a matter of changing hitches (as a couple of sales peope claimed), you will want a sturdy tail frame, beefier cooling system and breaks.

Note that your options increase a lot of you choose 'vacationing' vs 'snowbirding'.

 

[ARCHER]

Don't know muck about the financing end but have been researching the last couple years with the intention of going full time in a couple years. The Consumer RV Group is a good suggestion. One of the most active RV forums can be found HERE. A lot of good info. Also, once you narrow down your search, most manufacturers have forums dedicate to there products where you can "talk" with otherrs who own the MH you are looking at.

Good luck and maybe we will see you on the road!

 

[nwsteve]

Do what I did and buy the Consumer RV Group rating guide, the full meal deal (which also includes how to tow, how to inspect motor homes) for ~$135.

According to that software 4 year old coach in average condition has depreciated 22%, 5 - 27%, 6 32% from their purchase price. The price field in their software would be the new price so if you are looking for a 5 year old coach and you want to pay $50,000 enter $69,000. The newest coach that meets the criteria is a 2004 Bigfoot. The coach is so well built the manufacturer is now out of business.

While also a fan of the Consumer RV Group, it is primarily for their huge data base of equipment stats and their stability research. IMHO the depreciation information should be consider an approx versus a indication of FMV. Valuation comes down to the details of what after market accessories have been added, prior owner's care, etc. While you would not want to pay more than net of indicated depreciation, there are a lot of deals out there for less, especially if you are willing to go to owner direct. If that is your "path" then location of seller is important. When we bought our A, we were able to see owner's shop, how it was stored, and overall insight to how owner cared about his property. He also had all the manuals which can be a worthwhile indicator of someone who cares for their vehicles.
If a dealer strategy is more your speed, one resale site that does post sales values is PPL Motorhomes. Used Recreational Vehicles Sold or for Sale - PPL Motor Homes.
Good Hunting.
Nwsteve

 

[dtbach]

Thanks for the responses. I may have to up my price as I don't want to get something more than 5 years old (unless I come across an older one in fabulous condition for a really good price)

I don't think I'll be real hard to please as I have always either tented or slept in a tiny pop-up. Anything with a real bed and a refridgerator will seem like paradise!

I would like to know what are the quality brands and which ones to stay away from. Perhaps reading a bunch on the RV site might be of use there.

Thanks again for the advise and keep on adding! I'm a real novice when it comes to RV's

 

[Brat]

RV.org rating software (which you can purchase as a stand alone product) is well worth the purchase price IMHO. It saved us from buying a motor-home that would have been tough to drive and not well constructed.

I didn't really drill down on Class A's on the rating software as what I did see did not impress me in terms of price, highway control and overall quality. We want a highly rated used coach with a fiberglass lid (roof). If you need fiberglass work you can always contact your local boatyard. The only high volume manufacturer of those motor-homes is Winnebago/Itasca. Others would be Bigfoot (which were made so well that they are now out of business) and Born Free. In the Winnebago/Itasca lines those that are 31c/31t models have the very good highway control. They were produced with several model names which reflect, by and large, internal fit & finish. If the motor-home does not come with a passenger side awning standard, right out of the factory, it likey was intended for the rental market (often called "Chalet'). We saw one today, it was not too old but had high mileage and shabby. Not what we would want to buy. If you are willing to accept a rubber (or whatever the mfg wants to call it) roof the Jayco products Granite Ridge/Greyhawk coaches 2900 GS/ 29 GS are worth a look.

The RV lots we visited today were chuck full of Class As. I would hate to pay their flooring costs!!!

 

[Nords]

If you are willing to accept a rubber (or whatever the mfg wants to call it) roof the Jayco products Granite Ridge/Greyhawk coaches 2900 GS/ 29 GS are worth a look.

IIRC REWahoo! has determined that raccoons think the rubber roofs & slideout gaskets are... yummy.

 

[kumquat]

No comment on what to buy.

Not sure I'd want to incur significant debt with no employment income, but that's just me. IMHO, if you're retired and can't pay cash you should reconsider whether you can afford it. Of course, YMMV.

 

[rescueme]

Not sure I'd want to incur significant debt with no employment income, but that's just me. IMHO, if you're retired and can't pay cash you should reconsider whether you can afford it.

From this (4+year) retiree, I agree with you.

If you can't pay cash - you can't afford it.

The "exception to the rule" is from a tax perspective, if financing makes more sense.

An example? I purchased another car (while in retirement, for cash). The withdrawl from a TIRA moved me up to another tax bracket. However, the decision was on could I afford it, not the tax implication at the time.

I'll finance next time (due to total taxes); however, I made sure the purchase did not impact my retirement income plan, and I had the cash to pay for the purchase (regardless of financing). That's the important point, IMHO.

 

[Meadbh]

I agree with kumquat and rescueme. You already have a mortgage in retirement. That's a small red flag to me. Adding non tax deductible debt for a discretionary purchase is a BIG red flag. But, as kumquat said, YMMV.

 

[Brat]

I agree with the above posters but not knowing the writer's financial circumstances I hesitated to comment. We are paying for our motor home with cash.

 

[dtbach]

Well,
Yes I could pay cash for it, if I sell a bunch of stock and/or mutual funds. But I was thinking of doing a Refi anyway from a 15 (of which I have 7 years left on) to a 10 to go from a 5.25% to perhaps a 3.75% in today's market and tack on 40K for a total of $110K. The house is worth about $325K and I have about $1.7M in my portfolio. My DW is still working and we aren't having any trouble covering the mortgage and other stuff.

Guess I figured, why not pay 3.75% and be able to write off interest in taxes, vs selling assets that I'm hoping will go up at 5-6% a year.

 

[Danmar]

No comment on what to buy.

Not sure I'd want to incur significant debt with no employment income, but that's just me. IMHO, if you're retired and can't pay cash you should reconsider whether you can afford it. Of course, YMMV.

Agree totally.

 

[kumquat]

Well,
Yes I could pay cash for it,

Appears it may be an OK think to do. Insufficient info, I guess. That's why YMMV.

 

[Rambler]

We are in the market as well, and have looked at a variety of models, A class, C class, and trailers. We won't likely buy until winter sets in, to try and get a really good deal. We've more or less ruled out the trailer option, and we're currently looking at a Winnebago class C for starters. Why Winnie? Well, racoons like the rubber rooftops...just kidding, but tree branches do like them...like to tear them. We like the idea of a fiberglass roof rather than rubber. We will probably go with a new, 2012 Winnebago 26 QP with the sofa and TV tables instead of the dinette. That way, we can fit us, and a couple grandkids for a trip to the lake (give us a few years for the grandkids...puhleeeze). We will use this for the shorter state park trips as well as the cross country trips for a few years. If we find we like the cross country or want to escape the fog of the California Central Valley like snowbirds in winter, then perhaps we'll get a second RV for longer/extended stay trips. We'll probably keep the Class C for local stuff or for the kids to mooch. I haven't run the numbers yet but I'm guessing that having 2 RVs (one smaller class C and a medium large Class A - thinking the Winnie Sightseer 33C or Adventurer 34') will still prove cheaper than having a second home.

I would pay cash unless I can find financing for less than the income on fixed income securities...running around 5.7-8 on the munis I have. If I did find such financing, I would get the loan then dump the cash I would have used for the purchase into something more productive than the MM.

Finally, some people are fine with buying used RVs. We, on the other hand, don't know what we are doing. Therefore the first one, at least, will be new. Once we have figured out how to use it, what to look for, etc, then we could consider a gently used model. I know there are lots of older folks out there (older than most of us here) who buy an RV and then never get around to using it before a health crisis forces a sale. Thus, I know there are deals to be had out there. You just need to have the patience (and the time) to be able to find it. I'll still be working...thus no time, nor patience is expected the first time around.

R

 

[Brat]

I too am new at this too so I purchased that software. There are people who blow it off as 'only stability' research. Well let me tell you that stability on the highway is a huge factor for me, particularly because the grand children may be traveling in it. The $78 they charge for the ratings guide software is chump change as compared to making a $40,000 +++ bad decision. Small doesn't mean that it is easier to drive or has lower mpg.

The 2011 (the latest for which data is available) Winnebago Access Premier 26 QP looks like a good coach, the same price as the 31c and $10,000 less than the Premier 31 CP. Do you think you will be happy with just a dinette in the lounge area? According to that same data source discounts of 20% are not impossible, you should expect at least 10%. Winnebago also manufactures Itasca motor homes, the difference is in the finishes. Look at their Impulse brand.

There aren't a lot of new motor home buyers out there, use a sharp pencil.

There is a huge RV rally in Redmond Oregon starting Wednesday. Motor home manufacturers will be there with their products trying to entice folks to upgrade.

 

[SteveR]

As for the tax saving question...we claim ours as a second home; it qualifies and the IRS has allowed it for the past several years. We can deduct the taxes on the registration and interest on the small loan we have on it.

We have listed it a few places on the internet to see what would happen but no much action despite dropping the price several times already and well below low retail and darn near wholesale despite the extras and great condition.

 

[Rambler]

I too am new at this too so I purchased that software. There are people who blow it off as 'only stability' research. Well let me tell you that stability on the highway is a huge factor for me, particularly because the grand children may be traveling in it. The $78 they charge for the ratings guide software is chump change as compared to making a $40,000 +++ bad decision. Small doesn't mean that it is easier to drive or has lower mpg.

The 2011 (the latest for which data is available) Winnebago Access Premier 26 QP looks like a good coach, the same price as the 31c and $10,000 less than the Premier 31 CP. Do you think you will be happy with just a dinette in the lounge area? According to that same data source discounts of 20% are not impossible, you should expect at least 10%. Winnebago also manufactures Itasca motor homes, the difference is in the finishes. Look at their Impulse brand.

There aren't a lot of new motor home buyers out there, use a sharp pencil.

There is a huge RV rally in Redmond Oregon starting Wednesday. Motor home manufacturers will be there with their products trying to entice folks to upgrade.

I'm giving some thought to the 31 footers as well. Most of the state parks we frequent would limit us to 30' and slide on only one side. Of course in most spaces we could hang the tail a foot or two over the back of the campsite parking limit and be OK. Any bigger than this and it would seriously restrict the sites we could use at our faves. I visited one spot a couple weeks ago, and there was one huge 36er with a whole wall slide on one side and a partial slide on the other. The owners were nice enough to show me around. But this rig would only fit in two or three out of a hundred or so sites, and it is only maneuverable in 1 of the 5 loops. So it could not be this big. Anyway, we like these parks, but the DW won't go camping anymore without a bed and a shower...we think we'd be happy with the sofa option in the 26Q...for a while, and for the state parks. But, you're right, there is still a lot of research to do.

R

 

[nwsteve]

Finally, some people are fine with buying used RVs. We, on the other hand, don't know what we are doing. Therefore the first one, at least, will be new. Once we have figured out how to use it, what to look for, etc, then we could consider a gently used model. I know there are lots of older folks out there (older than most of us here) who buy an RV and then never get around to using it before a health crisis forces a sale.

Rambler
Another approach to the new vs used timing is that it is cheaper to learn on a used unit and you do not feel nearly as bad when you ding it when you are still in "learing mode"--(did you know if you ignore tag wag, you can bend your rear bumper to 90 deg?). There are a lot of "well doh" moments once you start using a rig and personally, I was glad we had bought our first A used. Also any ding do not hurt resales as much on a used vs a newer unit.
Just saying--;-)
Nwsteve

 

[W2R]

Well,
Yes I could pay cash for it, if I sell a bunch of stock and/or mutual funds. But I was thinking of doing a Refi anyway from a 15 (of which I have 7 years left on) to a 10 to go from a 5.25% to perhaps a 3.75% in today's market and tack on 40K for a total of $110K. The house is worth about $325K and I have about $1.7M in my portfolio. My DW is still working and we aren't having any trouble covering the mortgage and other stuff.

Guess I figured, why not pay 3.75% and be able to write off interest in taxes, vs selling assets that I'm hoping will go up at 5-6% a year.

Since your DW is still working, why not put her entire paycheck in a bank account every payday, while you research RV's. Leave her money there and do not touch it. Before too long (depending on her salary), she would have accumulated enough to pay for one in cash. Then ask her if SHE wants to buy an RV with all the money she has accumulated.

I just have a really hard time wrapping my mind around the idea of wanting to accumulate more debt for a "toy" while your DW is still working.

 

[Brat]

An interesting comment made by a Camping World employee when I asked about the relatively low mileage on RVs: RVing isn't so much a matter of money (?) as time.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

An interesting comment made by a Camping World employee when I asked about the relatively low mileage on RVs: RVing isn't so much a matter of money (?) as time.

Caveat emptor: it's both. Just like owning a vacation home, once you have the RV you incur fixed expenses which are unavoidable and which generate incentive to use the thing as much as you can in some cases. Insurance, storage (if you don't keep it on your property), maintenance, repairs, gizmos for towing, tires once in a while, and the always popular cost of fuel. Excluding fuel but not even discussing depreciation, that total for use will amount to a pretty nice conventional vacation every year

You just have to analyze your priorities and resources. No right and wrong here but a buyer needs to know their situation well. Will they feel guilty skipping an RV trip in order to fly to another destination? Will they grow bored or frustrated spending time caring for a 400 square foot second home and an expensive third vehicle? Suppose the grandkids love their first tip with you in the RV but later not so much?

While we recently sold our 35' motorhome for other reasons, after the fact we have admitted that aside from the cost, the impact on our time and non-RV travel was considerable. Mixed feelings. Having plenty of money to support the RV lifestyle helps a lot, but there are additional factors at play.

But that's just us.

 

[dtbach]

Late breaking news. . . The wife is now not too keen on the RV. I'm retired Navy and was thinking, I could stay at Navy Lodges for about $60/night right on the beach. Most of the rooms come with a nice kitchenette so could still do alot of cooking there (just like on the RV). So with 1/5 of the gas required to get there, no RV insurance, upkeep, storage, licensing, etc. I could probably stay more cheaply in a nice room instead of in an RV.

The plan now is to going in with my brother on a nice little pop-up for about $3500 and go out a couple of times a year.

And I could go ALL CASH on that LOL

I suspect you will all congratulate me on coming to my senses

 

[W2R]

Late breaking news. . . The wife is now not too keen on the RV. I'm retired Navy and was thinking, I could stay at Navy Lodges for about $60/night right on the beach. Most of the rooms come with a nice kitchenette so could still do alot of cooking there (just like on the RV). So with 1/5 of the gas required to get there, no RV insurance, upkeep, storage, licensing, etc. I could probably stay more cheaply in a nice room instead of in an RV.

The plan now is to going in with my brother on a nice little pop-up for about $3500 and go out a couple of times a year.

And I could go ALL CASH on that LOL

I suspect you will all congratulate me on coming to my senses

Congratulations! I think you are going to have a lot of fun camping at the Navy Lodges or in the pop-up. Sounds like some super vacations so take lots of photos and have a great time!

 

[Nords]

Late breaking news. . . The wife is now not too keen on the RV. I'm retired Navy and was thinking, I could stay at Navy Lodges for about $60/night right on the beach. Most of the rooms come with a nice kitchenette so could still do alot of cooking there (just like on the RV). So with 1/5 of the gas required to get there, no RV insurance, upkeep, storage, licensing, etc. I could probably stay more cheaply in a nice room instead of in an RV.

Results for Books

Military Living Publications politely considered my query letter to publish "The Military Guide", but Impact made their decision first.