Health Care Bill and Your Personal Experiences

[lets-retire]

After reading portions of the bill, it is very lacking. I don't see where I will save any money and in fact will pay more for health care. A perfect example. The DW had a surgery a few years ago. My total cost for the surgery plus care immediately before and after was about $350. Due to how the prices of the insurance is dictated under the bill it appears the cost of insurance will go up. The companies will not use the cheapest cost as their basis they will use the most expensive cost and cut it in half. The companies must pay back all money over the medical loss ratio. Nobody currently knows what that is or how to figure it. A person appointed after the bill is passed will figure that out. With those few points I can make a few assumptions. The three minimum standard levels will be all that are offered. Charging more for a policy that offers a simple co-pay or other benefits over paying a percentage wouldn't make much sense. The best the insurance company can hope for is to break even and that is figured on a yearly basis. So if the company loses money this year they can't make it up next year. With that stated comparing the two policies resulted in the DW having the premium plus plan. This plan limits her payout for health care to 5% of the bill up to $10,000 per year. The cost of the DW's surgery to me under this bill would have been over $3000. We could not afford that at the time and most likely would not be able to afford it now, even though we are considered middle class.

The most recent numbers I've seen are we have 13 million illegal aliens in this country most, if not all don't have insurance. There are many people who made a conscious decision to not have health insurance, I'm guessing somewhere between 5-10 million. there are the few people who qualify for Medicaid or Medicare, but have not for whatever reason signed up for it, I'm guessing about 1 million. So in total there are between 19 and 24 million without health insurance. In 2007 there were only 45 million people total without health insurance so we are going to spend a boat load of money to insure between 21 and 26 million people. Actually less, because many people probably won't sign up for this health insurance either.

 

[SarahW]

From the WSJ: Obama Advisers Set Groundwork to Raise Taxes on Middle Class - WSJ.com


So waiting in the wings is the biggest middle-class tax increase of them all: a European-style value added tax, or VAT. This tax would apply to every level of production or service, and it is beloved by politicians in Europe because it raises so much money so easily without voters noticing. Ezekiel Emanuel, a White House aide and brother of Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, has advocated a 10% VAT to finance national health care. Look for a VAT to be one of the prominent options when Mr. Obama’s tax reform commission issues its report later this year.
The undeniable reality is that you can’t run a European-style welfare-entitlement state without European-style levels of taxation on the middle class (and eventually without low European-style growth and high jobless rates). It’s looking more and more like Mr. Obama’s no-middle-class-tax pledge was one of the greatest confidence tricks in American political history.

 

[Sevo]

There is great confusion here because no one understands what is being discussed here. If you think that any one in Washington is concerned about your personal well being or "Health care" Try this little experiment Write to your representative , Senators and your President. Pose this simple question to each of them. I am ill and need money for my medicine. Please send me some of your personal money. I don't want the money that has been taken through taxes from my neighbors. I want you to send me some of your personal money. I'll Give you a hint what the response will be.....Obama has a half brother living in utter squalor in Kenya as we speak. He is not willing to do anything for his own Brother much less you and I.

This discussion has nothing to do with health care. That is why it seems so confusing.This entire issue is about Buying votes with "free health" care. Once you understand this is all make sense.

Once the Democratic party can put another huge block of voters on the Free health care rolls those recipients will block vote for the Democratic party for the rest of their life's. That is why the Democratic party is willing to pay any price to get this done. Once this new program is in place You will have about 50 million people on Medicare, 50 million on Medicaid and this program will put about another 50 million on the rolls. Wow Batman! that comes out to 150 million that will get free health care as a gift from the Democratic party. In a country of 350 million or so that means you have bought close to 50% of the vote in every election. That is exactly why all those kind generous people in Washington who care about you so much are suddenly Determined to shove Socialized medicine down every ones throat. Once it is done there will be no turning back. My personal opinion is that the Democratic party with become exactly like the PRI party of Mexico that totally controlled Mexico for 71 years.

Hang on and Hope. That's all we can do now!

 

[lets-retire]

Sevo--Something I find interesting, is when the Democrats stage protests over whatever law the Republicans were contemplating it was a grass roots movement. Now that conservatives seem to be doing the same thing it is a fake grass roots movement and our representatives refuse to answer questions. Whether it is a fake demonstration or not, if the law is a good law it doesn't matter who's asking questions critical of it. Answer the questions, quit running from constituents, and quit chastising people for demanding answers to questions on what will be one of the largest spending bills in Congress.

This Congress passed laws in the recent past that were not read. That angered many people, who now feel they were betrayed by the very people sent to represent them. Now the Congress critters are getting angry that people don't trust them to know what is in a law and explain why it is a good law before they pass it. It sounds an awful lot like the Representatives are forgetting that they are there to serve the people, not the other way around. I have talked to a to of people who are very angry about the situation in Congress, granted I do live in a typically red state. Many are starting to speak of the need for violent actions against our government, it's kind of scary actually.

If the law is good it doesn't matter what the talking head are saying. People are getting more and more angry that the Congress critters can't explain why this bill is good for them. The Congress critters are refusing to explain why the bill is good, even to those actually seeking knowledge. These are definitely interesting times we live in.

 

[ERD50]

Sevo--Something I find interesting, is when the Democrats stage protests over whatever law the Republicans were contemplating it was a grass roots movement. Now that conservatives seem to be doing the same thing it is a fake grass roots movement and our representatives refuse to answer questions. ...

I don't know if these are "manufactured" or not, but consdidering the strong negative numbers in the polls for the health care propositions, it should not be surprising that more people are turning out and turning up the heat.

edit: some numbers to back that up:

Two in Three Doubt Congress’ Grasp of Healthcare Issues

http://www.gallup.com/poll/121916/Two-Three-Doubt-Congress-Grasp-Healthcare-Issues.aspx

The numbers on the Clunkers program have me worked up enough to try to ask some tough (which should be easy) questions at the next town hall I can attend. Respectfully of course. The shouters are counter-productive IMO. Anyone with vocal cords can shout, it means nothing.

This Congress passed laws in the recent past that were not read. That angered many people, who now feel they were betrayed by the very people sent to represent them.

I found this mildly interesting:

Let Freedom Ring | Pledge to Read

I think he lets them off easy. In one of the interviews, he said he doesn't expect Congress to read *every* bill, just the "important" ones I think that is a huge part of the problem with Congress. They are so micro-managing this country. Why the heck are they wasting their time on "unimportant" bills. OK, some may be routine and just normal dreary business, fine - how long can it take to read them?

I seem to recall a few "True North" principles:

1) Don't invest in anything you don't understand.
2) Don't sign anything w/o reading and understanding it.

I think #2 is especially relevant when your job description is "vote on bills".

-ERD50

 

[Sevo]

Lets -retire. Our present rulers can't explain why any of the laws they are going to pass are for the "General Welfare" because those laws simply are not. They are for one reason and one reason only and that is to keep incumbents in power for ever.

Next please talk to your friends and acquaintances that are making any statements about Any form of violence or semi violence against any officials. Just making that statement is a Federal felony. Any citizen that makes such statements and is over heard by the wrong person can have their lives totally destroyed by the Federal Government.

YouTube - Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1

Both sections of this link should be mandatory watching for any citizen.

Next we started this thread with the question about how your experience has affected your feelings about the delivery of health care. Well I could write a book but I will give one example. I can tell this because the statute of limitations has passed.

When I started in my practice I Always "charged insurance only" for all veterans and people that I thought just could not make the 20% co-pay on medicare. In other words I sent a bill to Medicare and accepted what every they payed me and I did not send a bill for the other 20% to the patient. This practice cost me a lot of money but it was worth it because I thought it was the right thing to do. As usual the laws and mandates just got more and more complex so after years of going it alone several Doctors went into a group and hired a management team to do the work of dealing with the Government and the insurance companies. Good so far right?

The first thing that happened when we got professional management, people who really understood the laws involved, was they came to me and said you can't do that any more.....?? My first response was I'm doing what is in my opinion an honorable thing and no one is going to tell me I can't give veterans and other people who are honest but down on their luck a break. Boy was I in for a surprise when they informed me that what I was doing was a FEDERAL FELONY EACH AND EVERY TIME I DID IT. I had committed hundreds of Federal Felonies. I could have lost every thing I had including my medical license and my freedom. . Such is the power of a run away government......

Hang on and Hope!

 

[youbet]

A wonderful program. I got a job through CETA.

My family got their jobs through the Chicago political machine and patronage. A wonderful program! Without it I wouldn't have been able to attend college. We need more political machines and partronage employment!

 

[eridanus]

Write to your representative , Senators and your President. Pose this simple question to each of them. I am ill and need money for my medicine. Please send me some of your personal money. I don't want the money that has been taken through taxes from my neighbors. I want you to send me some of your personal money. I'll Give you a hint what the response will be.....Obama has a half brother living in utter squalor in Kenya as we speak. He is not willing to do anything for his own Brother much less you and I.

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?