Occupy Wall Street

[Sandhog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregLee I don't think they will lose sympathizers so long as they stick to grievances. It's offering constructive proposals that is dangerous to revolutionary movements.

They'll attract non-thinkers. But anyone with sense will know they are lost cause IMO. How can you claimed illegal foreclosure when they failed to pay their mortgage on time or missed payment for 6 months or more? Everyone needs to take responsibility for their stupidity. Everyone is accountable for their own finances unless their finances was in ruined with no fault of their own such as when investors were fraudulently presented with falsified financial statements.

[Sandhog]

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Originally Posted by Gumby Shades of the Hard Hat Riot . I hope it doesn't come to that.

Not this time around since both students and union labors are in the same side. It's against the capitalism out of all things.

Although in my mind I can whip those young punks, I know better since my body can not cash. I'm just venting cause if messed up my work route today.

[Trex]

When 400 of the richest people in America have more money & wealth than 150 million of the poorest in America...the poor and the middle class, in our country will protest! Thank...., we have that right as America's!

[harley]

What's wrong with you people? Protests are fun! I used to go to protests when I was young, dumb, and full of something. Living just outside DC there were plenty of opportunities. I actually got arrested at a protest once. I'm not sure what it was for, but we were marching around chanting "no more welfare, we want child care!" And after we got released I got quite lucky with one of my fellow arrestees. So see it as what it is, a party organized by a few idealistic leaders and fleshed out by people looking to either change the world or meet interesting people of the opposite (or whatever your inclination is) sex.

[HFWR]

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...got quite lucky...

Yeah, that...

Never really did much protesting, okay none, though I did some Thoreau, that is to say, I was broke and without a j*b, which, as it turns out, is just practice for retirement.

The Beatles - Revolution (HQ) with lyrics - YouTube

[Brett_Cameron]

Unless the Occupy Wall Street effort develops into full scale chaos and revolution (which I doubt) they will have little or no affect on retirement. Localized rioting could affect the functioning of the exchange on a temporary basis which could have minor effects on the investment activities of retirees.

Notice the correct usage of "affect" and "effect"? 8>)

[GregLee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by harley What's wrong with you people? Protests are fun! I used to go to protests when I was young, dumb, and full of something.

I was watching bemused, not participating, in the Harvard 1961 diploma riots, protesting Harvard's decision to change the language of its diplomas from Latin to English. That was fun, and pretty much just an expression of undergrad high spirits and mischief. Later, I was teaching as a grad assistant at Ohio State in 1970 when the OSU campus was occupied by armed and scared national guardsmen after sit-ins protesting the Kent State killings. That was not nearly as much fun.

[FUEGO]

I put this in the category of the WTO protests, except much less violent so far. Anticipated effect: minimal. Could snowball into a well funded union backed political movement, if the 99-percenters are open to being pawns. I suppose they would be as long as the unions buy em pizza and beer!

[ziggy29]

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Originally Posted by gsparks2 Unless the Occupy Wall Street effort develops into full scale chaos and revolution (which I doubt) they will have little or no affect on retirement. Localized rioting could affect the functioning of the exchange on a temporary basis which could have minor effects on the investment activities of retirees.

But see, that's not really where I think the *potential* impact is. I think there's a growing sense of economic desperation, one this movement may be tapping into to an extent, a feeling that in the future there *will* be no retirement for most of us in the future if things don't change. Pensions have been gutted in the private sector and the private sector has lost enough ground that they can't keep up with the cost of public sector benefits. Health care is a mess and rising at double digit rates. We're getting pay cuts in *real* dollars, making it harder and harder to invest for ourselves and our own retirements. And when we do, our 401Ks remain in the toilet.

That's the feeling out there, I think -- yes, it's mostly "I can't find a decent job" but I think the entire undercurrent is "...and no way in hell can I retire healthy and at a decent age unless forced out before I can afford it."

I'm not sure this is the answer, and truth be told I cringe at the thought of it being hijacked by polarizing groups who will dilute the original message which I think was less partisan and ideological. It started in populism, I think, and I'd hate to see it morph into partisanism. I don't think the original thought was to dismantle capitalism, just to restrain it a bit in the hopes that a rising tide can lift all boats again. And I don't know how the middle class gets "retirement relief" (again I stress, that among mostly middle class folks we collectively are extreme outliers in terms of readiness for retirement) through the political process when it feels like the stars are aligning for making harder than ever, at least in the post-WW2 era.

[Nords]

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Originally Posted by ziggy29 That's the feeling out there, I think -- yes, it's mostly "I can't find a decent job" but I think the entire undercurrent is "...and no way in hell can I retire healthy and at a decent age unless forced out before I can afford it."

"... and if we don't fix this country now then I might have to start living within my means and saving my own money for retirement!!"

[Trex]

affect and effect. The verb affect means "to influence something", and the noun effect means "the result of". Effect can also be a verb that means "to cause [something] to be", while affect as a noun has technical meanings in psychology, music, and aesthetic theory: an emotion or subjectively experienced feeling. A device to remember when trying to decide which is the right choice: If something affects you it usually has an effect on you.

• Standard. This poem affected me so much that I cried.
• Standard. Temperature has an effect on reaction spontaneity.
• Standard. The dynamite effected the wall's collapse.
• Standard. He seemed completely devoid of affect.
• Non-standard. The rain effected our plans for the day.
• Non-standard. We tried appeasing the rain gods, but to no affect

[ziggy29]

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Originally Posted by Nords "... and if we don't fix this country now then I might have to start living within my means and saving my own money for retirement!!"

It's a difficult transition. One that's necessary, I agree, but hard. But be a little fair here -- you have your pension and health care lined up in retirement (you earned it by upholding the deal you signed up for, don't get me wrong) -- so maybe you don't see it's harder and harder for most people to save for their own retirement when their wages are going down relative to inflation, they are losing benefits rapidly (especially in the private sector, though the public may be catching up soon) and more and more are seeing unemployment or underemployment eat into their ability to fund their own retirements.

This sounds a little "let them eat cakey" to me, I have to confess.

[samclem]

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Originally Posted by ziggy29 But see, that's not really where I think the *potential* impact is. I think there's a growing sense of economic desperation, one this movement may be tapping into to an extent, a feeling that in the future there *will* be no retirement for most of us in the future if things don't change.

Seems a stretch to me, based on looking at the disparate signs they are carrying, what they are saying to reporters, etc. I don't think these folks are motivated by the threat to their retirement plans. They just want to rage at the system. Okay, whatever. Zzzzzz.

[ziggy29]

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Originally Posted by samclem Seems a stretch to me, based on looking at the disparate signs they are carrying, what they are saying to reporters, etc. I don't think these folks are motivated by the threat to their retirement plans. They just want to rage at the system. Okay, whatever. Zzzzzz.

Most of them are obviously too young to be thinking of retirement issues and I'm sure very few of them have that *specifically* on their minds. But the ability to find decent jobs is a big first step toward being able to fund retirement. Whether it's 401K contributions, IRA contributions or years of service in a pension plan, you can't get closer to retirement without a job that enables you to work toward it.

(I was thinking about it in my early 20s and contributed to my 401K until I bled -- but again, I'm an outlier. It will take some time and painful adjustment for the masses to see it, too. And I was able to get a career-oriented programming job even *before* graduating from college, back in 1987. Good luck with that today.)

[samclem]

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Originally Posted by ziggy29 Most of them are obviously too young to be thinking of retirement issues and I'm sure very few of them have that *specifically* on their minds. But the ability to find decent jobs is a big first step toward being able to fund retirement. Whether it's 401K contributions, IRA contributions or years of service in a pension plan, you can't get closer to retirement without a job that enables you to work toward it.

So they've gone to Wall Street to find a good job? Good for them, my faith in America's youth is restored. I'd thought they'd gone there to have a protest against big corporations, which sounded like just the opposite of looking for work.

[GregLee]

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Originally Posted by Trex Standard. This poem affected me so much that I cried. Standard. Temperature has an effect on reaction spontaneity. Standard. The dynamite effected the wall's collapse. Standard. He seemed completely devoid of affect.

But in the first three of these, except in spelling pronunciations, "affect" and "effect" are pronounced the same way. So it makes sense for people to spell them the same.

[CCdaCE]

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Originally Posted by Purron I hope this doesn't go political and derail before we can hear some thoughts from the members of this forum. I haven't paid much attention to this recently but it seems to be growing and has caught my interest. I'm beginning to think its gaining traction and may impact our country. What do you think about the Occupy Wall Street phenomenon?

My question, as originally heard, by me, from Kai Ryssdal? (Nat'l Public Radio) is "what took 'em so long?"

The Tea Party has their points, what's taken so long for the "other side" to come up with a gripe?

-CC

[samclem]

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Originally Posted by CCdaCE The Tea Party has their points, what's taken so long for the "other side" to come up with a gripe? -CC

What is the "other side"of the Tea Party? Folks who want bigger government? And what, government has been shrinking lately? I don't think these guys are the opposite of the Tea Party--something else entirely.

[Helen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trex When 400 of the richest people in America have more money & wealth than 150 million of the poorest in America...the poor and the middle class, in our country will protest! Thank...., we have that right as America's!

+1

[GregLee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCdaCE The Tea Party has their points, ...

Name two.