Poll: legalizing marijuana

[NW-Bound]

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Originally Posted by HFWR Sounds like my job...

They pay you to hallucinate? Did they provide you with marijuana to facilitate that, or some other drugs? Sounds like a dream job to some.

[NW-Bound]

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Originally Posted by kumquat No, just uninformed.

That could be true. I really do not know how to inform myself. Experimenting with it myself? That is out of the question. Too old to get another potential vice.

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Originally Posted by kumquat Really? Eating causes US health care problems? That's it?

It appears you did not get my joke regarding some US city ordinances banning "bad food".

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Originally Posted by kumquat Well, do you think the people who make the decisions on the legalities should do a bit more some research or just agree with you?

No, it is really up to the public now to decide, with the recent polls. It is not legal authorities, or me. It's every voter to decide. And perhaps the way to do it is to give all legal voters a pinch to try for themselves. Nah, I do not see that happen. So, where do we go from here?

[kumquat]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound It appears you did not get my joke regarding some US city ordinances banning "bad food".

While it is a "joke", I thought you were using it as justification for you views, you weren't?

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound No, it is really up to the public now to decide, with the recent polls.

Interesting? I thought the US system ( or Canadian since there are posts that suggest we are both Canucks) let people vote for those who make law. There are exceptions like the recent California plebiscite but I'd suggest that very few laws are passed by "polls".

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound So, where do we go from here?

In all likelihood, nowhere.

[HFWR]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound They pay you to hallucinate? Did they provide you with marijuana to facilitate that, or some other drugs? Sounds like a dream job to some.

No, they cause me to hallucinate...

[Westernskies]

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Originally Posted by Martha Try some brownies sometime. You might like it.

Not a chance. I made a concious decision when I was about 10 years old not to smoke (anything). Watching my parents (both smokers) die of lung cancer ~40 years later only reinforced my decision.

Same decision on pot; I always viewed starting it as a slippery slope- why I also quit drinking ~20 years ago- to borrow a phrase from CFB- I was born without a volume control, just an on-off switch.

Personal choice, YMMV.

[NW-Bound]

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While it is a "joke", I thought you were using it as justification for you views, you weren't?

It's my fault. I often confuse my friends when I mix serious talks with jokes.

As I stated, my current stance is against legalization. And as increasing appetite is an indisputable effect of pot, I jokingly use it for a reason to ban it, because "bad food" ordinances recently appear in some US cities.

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Interesting? I thought the US system ( or Canadian since there are posts that suggest we are both Canucks) let people vote for those who make law. There are exceptions like the recent California plebiscite but I'd suggest that very few laws are passed by "polls".

No, I am not Canadian. Legalization has been talked about for at least 35 years, ever since I was here as a young adult. The recent Proposition 19 in California failed , as you noticed. Here in AZ, a proposition to allow the use of marijuana for medicinal purposes (we are behind CA by a few years) also failed, but with a very narrow margin.

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In all likelihood, nowhere.

The proponents will keep on trying, and perhaps in my lifetime, it may happen. It's an unknown area to me, and since I do not use it, I feel more comfortable with the status quo.

[Bestwifeever]

Some people still see marijuana as a gateway drug to the bad stuff

Alcohol and tobacco use are legal almost everywhere in the world. Recreational use of marijuana, as alcohol and tobacco are typically used, is illegal almost everywhere in the world (subject to at least a ticket for posession). Maybe an international effort would be necessary to legalize it.

I don't see it happening.

[dex]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound This forum itself is on the Internet.

That's going to leave a mark.

[KisKis]

Legalize it and tax the hell out of it, like cigarettes. Should help a lot to decrease black market drug trafficking. Those who are publicly intoxicated or operating machinery under the influence should be charged, like alcohol. Should be plenty of judicial/jail space opened up after decriminalizing sale and possession. The whole drug war is such a political scam.

[Nodak]

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Originally Posted by KisKis Legalize it and tax the hell out of it, like cigarettes. Should help a lot to decrease black market drug trafficking. Those who are publicly intoxicated or operating machinery under the influence should be charged, like alcohol. Should be plenty of judicial/jail space opened up after decriminalizing sale and possession. The whole drug war is such a political scam.

+1

[NW-Bound]

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Originally Posted by KisKis Legalize it and tax the hell out of it, like cigarettes. Should help a lot to decrease black market drug trafficking. Those who are publicly intoxicated or operating machinery under the influence should be charged, like alcohol. Should be plenty of judicial/jail space opened up after decriminalizing sale and possession. The whole drug war is such a political scam.

Same as others, I have wondered if that would work. In case it doesn't, how do we go back?

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Originally Posted by Bestwifeever Recreational use of marijuana, as alcohol and tobacco are typically used, is illegal almost everywhere in the world (subject to at least a ticket for posession). Maybe an international effort would be necessary to legalize it...

Good point. I can see a side effect of unilateral legalization here. The US will become an exporter of it. If other countries still ban it, will the US become like Mexico now, where it is not legal but enforcement is apparently lax?

[REWahoo]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound In case it doesn't, how do we go back?

Based on the US track record with the 18th Amendment to the Constitution, we don't.

[Gone4Good]

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Originally Posted by dex All legalization does is increase the problem and move it around from interdiction to cleaning up the dead, injured and impaired after the harm is done.

I don't think the analysis is that simple. True, there would almost certainly be an increase in usage, and therefore, an increase in usage related problems. But there would also be a reduction in the criminal enterprises that surround the underground drug trade. I don't think we can simply assume one side of the equation and ignore the other. How this ultimately balances? I have no idea. And I suspect no one else does either.

[FIREd]

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

How long before they make nutmeg illegal?

[calmloki]

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Originally Posted by FD Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com How long before they make nutmeg illegal?

40 odd years ago in the Navy as we were onloading stores a substantial amount of the nutmeg was diverted for personal consumption - I tried it, but there are and were too many other ways to get high.

[KisKis]

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound Same as others, I have wondered if that would work. In case it doesn't, how do we go back?

Like prohibition, except reversed. Messy, but maybe worth the shot. I would expect use to jump up the first few years after legalization, and then fall back down to a little higher than what usage probably looks like now, similar to other countries that have legalized.

[Leonidas]

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Originally Posted by KisKis I would expect use to jump up the first few years after legalization, and then fall back down to a little higher than what usage probably looks like now, similar to other countries that have legalized.

Don't you mean decriminalize? Because with the exception of a number of countries that don't rigorously enforce their laws on Marijuana, it is only legal as a drug in Uruguay and Peru (and India for religious uses). Decriminalization ranges from drug treatment/fines for first offenses, to just-about-legal in Cambodia.

[NW-Bound]

I do not know of any country that truly legalizes pot, meaning allowing it to be sold like tobacco and alcohol. The most well-known example of decriminalization is in Amsterdam, but even there, as a social experiment, I thought that I have read of some negative results.

About nutmeg, good grief! I learn something everyday. I just found the following on the Web.

Nutmeg, that piquant brown spice you sprinkle on egg nog, is chock full o' the organic compound myristicin. Eating four to eight teaspoons of ground nutmeg causes mild hallucinations, warmth in the limbs ...

The Downside: dizziness, nausea, cottonmouth, paranoia, difficulty urinating and, the coup de grace, a hangover that feels like God taking a dump on your soul.

Some users compare the nutmeg "high" to a hellish case of the flu. To make things worse, nutmeg consumption is easily the most inconvenient way to get high--its effects kick in five to six hours after ingestion. That's like having to drink a six-pack at lunch in anticipation of happy hour.

The link below provides more info for the enquiring mind. Enjoy!

7 Common Foods That Can Actually Get You High | Cracked.com

[audreyh1]

NW-Bound - I am not particularly targeting your post, but rather using it to make some points as I sit here watching the place across the river, a few miles from my back yard, become one of the most dangerous places in the world. In just a few years too. In 2002 it was perfectly safe to drive into Mexico and see all sorts of neat stuff. Now folks don't dare even go over to visit the border towns and we have a lot of people who are legally immigrating to cities north of the border, fleeing the violence not to mention refugees. And it's about to destroy all the economic infrastructure of Northern Mexico - the city of Monterrey as well as the border cities who up until now had been prospering so well economically.

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound Same as others, I have wondered if that would work. In case it doesn't, how do we go back?

The "war on drugs" has been going on my entire adult life. And as far as I can see, it has been an abject failure resulting in overcrowded prisons and organized crime becoming so powerful in our neighboring country that they are on the verge of taking over the government for all practical purposes. The only institution that can still combat them is the Mexican Army. And they barely have the capability - so far it's not clear that they are "winning".

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Originally Posted by NW-Bound Good point. I can see a side effect of unilateral legalization here. The US will become an exporter of it. If other countries still ban it, will the US become like Mexico now, where it is not legal but enforcement is apparently lax?

I would no longer describe the situation in Mexico as "enforcement is apparently lax". Unfortunately, the situation has gone far beyond that. The organized crime is so powerful with their imported cash and guns (that's the current US export - high-powered guns and cash) that the local communities become pretty much helpless - held hostage by the violence and terrorism.

One big difference between the US and Mexico, is that in the US, citizens can trust their local law enforcement. This has not been true in Northern Mexico, because the local law enforcement has been rendered useless - bribes to some extent, but far more widespread is murder, death threats, threats to family members. It's insidious. Can you imagine 14 mayors in an area smaller than the size of TX being murdered by drug cartels in the past year? A candidate for governor murdered? The press is muzzled because reporters are kidnapped and murdered and TV stations/newspapers are routinely attacked. It's virtually impossible to imagine that happening in the US. Have you ever noticed in the video footage of the Mexican Army doing it's thing that the soldiers wear ski masks? This is to protect their identity, to prevent backlash against family members. I read an opinion somewhere that enforcement officers having to cover their faces to hide their identity was a indication of a failed state. It very well may be. I think it's an open question.

How many "rogue nations" will we allow to come into existence that are able to take over a country because the drug interests become so powerful they take over governments?

I think international governments have to step back and study this intelligently about the most effective way to pull the rug out from under these super powerful criminal organizations, and I think legalization must be a major part of it. We can't keep doing what we have been doing for the past several decades and expect different results. Things have gotten far worse, not better.

It's not about whether it is "right" to use an illegal substance. Use hasn't grown (I don't think) over the past decades, and it may have even dropped a bit, but the demand is still high enough to fuel massive organized crime, and that is getting worse, not better. IMO over the past 2 decades it's just gotten a lot more organized and deadly due to wars between cartels, and we have raised a generation or two of hardened criminals. At this point it is all about not letting criminal organizations rise to such power because of various black markets. Circumvent the black markets, and all of a sudden these organizations lose a lot of their fuel. Unfortunately we are still left with a lot of professional criminals who will probably turn to other means (kidnapping, extortion, terrorism, etc.) as they already have somewhat. But by removing a major part of their reason for existence, eventually a lot of that should fade because it's not ultimately profitable.

Anyway - this is clearly now a national security and international security issue.

Audrey

P.S. One interesting experiment with decriminalization - Decriminalizing Drugs in Portugal a Success, Says Report - TIME

[Nodak]

We could do what Alaska did a few years ago and make it legal to grow for one's own use. Although, I think Alaska has changed or repealed that.