So cheap that nothing good is left

[UncleHoney]

I blame Antiques Roadshow because I lament the fact that my ancestors apparently didn't keep a lot of cool stuff in good condition passed down to many generations...

Even some of the good old stuff isn't that great. I recently refinished an old dresser that has been in the family for about 140 years. Much to my surprise only the front and top were solid walnut, the sides were stained poplar. Even years ago there were efforts to economize and make stuff affordable for the common man.

Since I'm only the fourth owner of the dresser the story of it's history is still intact as far as I know. Supposedly the piece came across the Alleghenies in the back of a wagon and even survived the famous 1913 flood that inundated Columbus.

 

[JOHNNIE36]

Well, I've had it with IKEA. Today was the second time I've been there but never again. First time was an experience, this was horrible. Looking for a piece of furniture for storage in our computer room to hold misc books, cables, external hard drives, etc. Saw some that might have worked the first time we were there but that was not the purpose of our visit them. It was to scope out the place and see what they had. Saw some nice computer chairs also. This time in looking in detail at the furniture, I came to the conclusion it is cheap. Junk to me. Pressed wood drawer bottoms with cardboard backs. I don't call that furniture. It's utility drawers. Stuff I might use in my workshop but not in my home. Maybe priced right but I'd much rather add another $100 and get something decent. We bought some drawer dividers and a rack for cooking lids and that's the end of our trips to IKEA. Oh yeah, almost everything is made in China. Utensils are one thing but I'm not buying my firniture from China. Right now I see it as a fad but I think it will wear off. I did like there cafeteria. Nice touch! I will have to say, you could hardly find a parking space and here I thought we were in a recession.

 

[Amethyst]

We bought 2, identical, 72-inch oak bookcases from a local outfit that boasted "solid oak furniture, no pressed wood, old-style craftmanship." They were the usual shelves-held-up-by-little-brass-thingies-that-fit-into-holes-in-the-sides bookcases but they sure weren't cheap.
They weren't identical, either, as we found when the backing (made of something like pressed sawdust) came off one bookshelf as it was being moved. The backing had been stapled on, instead of nailed on like the other bookshelf. At some point, someone decided to save time and money by using a staple gun instead of nails...The shelves cost the same, but one was definitely "cheaper" than the other.

 

[calmloki]

As the owner of a middle of the run 79 year old home I cringe every time I hear someone say, "they sure don't build them like they used too".

If those people only knew. Even the nice old ones had their share of flaws and problems. Nothing is plumb or square and most things were not engineered, they were just built. A lot depended on the carpenters and how creative they were.

I'm just waiting for the day I catch up with the old masons that did our foundation.....You don't substitute common block for corner block unless you want leaks, BIG LEAKS.

I'm also looking for the carpenter that installed the door frames to the coal bin and storage room in the basement before the floor was poured. Just bury the ends in the dirt so the termites have easy access.

Oh and don't put a footer under a wood post holding up a two story stairwell. Just put it on a flat stone and the concrete guys can hide it.

The guys I really want to meet up with are the plasterer and finish carpenter that cut off a major support in a load bearing wall and moved it over about a foot because someone screwed up measuring for the finish staircase.

The list goes on and on and after 34 years most of the little indiscretions have been corrected....

As a rough carpenter masquerading as a finish carpenter told us on one of many old place redos: do you want it to be level or look level? Actually he wasn't really capable of either result. I think an advantage of much modern construction is that it takes into account labor cost and lack of craftsmanship. Engineered floor joists free of twist and metal hangers, pre-cut-to-length wall studs, tiles mounted to rubber backing that sets the correct grout joint width, ABS pipe fittings with 90 and 45 degree marks for perfect joint to joint mating, pretty much everything seems to be made to accomodate "Construction for the Complete Idiot". Problems arise when the inevitable problems crop up - and someone has to actually think how to go outside the tab A in Slot A mode.

Oh - just remembered - "Caulk and paint make a carpenter what he ain't". We are guilty of charging our painter with using structural paint several times when we don't want to tear the old MF down and start new. He claims he can't paint across air, but i tell him he just needs to get more dirt on his brush... He's made places look pretty darn good and keep the rent coming in for decades now...

 

[dex]

The ideas in this book appear to be cheap.

 

[ERD50]

I thought these two posts made an interesting juxtoposition (and I love to use that word ):

Well, I've had it with IKEA.

.... This time in looking in detail at the furniture, I came to the conclusion it is cheap. Junk to me. Pressed wood drawer bottoms with cardboard backs. I don't call that furniture. It's utility drawers. Stuff I might use in my workshop but not in my home. Maybe priced right but I'd much rather add another $100 and get something decent.

This seems reasonable to me. The quality was not what you wanted, so you take your business elsewhere, willing to pay for the difference.

We bought 2, identical, 72-inch oak bookcases from a local outfit that boasted "solid oak furniture, no pressed wood, old-style craftmanship."

...as we found when the backing (made of something like pressed sawdust) came off one bookshelf as it was being moved. The backing had been stapled on, instead of nailed on like the other bookshelf. At some point, someone decided to save time and money by using a staple gun instead of nails...The shelves cost the same, but one was definitely "cheaper" than the other.

And here, Amethysts was expecting quality with those vague "old world craftsmanship" terms, but didn't get the quality expected. Just because something is made from "solid wood" doesn't mean it is good quality, and just because something is veneer and presswood doesn't mean it is poor quality.

Oh yeah, almost everything is made in China.

Well, that's "old world", isn't it? Now you made me look, the IKEA tables we bought that are solid maple, and IMO, good quality and very good value were made in Russia - is that better?

But the better quality stuff is something you have to search out at IKEA, I agree that most of it is on the "cheap" end, and may or may not be a good value, depending on the piece and your needs. Gotta be a smart shopper and know what you want and how to determine if the piece has it. IMO, solid versus veneer and presswood may be the last of my concerns. Construction details, fit and finish come first.

-ERD50

 

[JOHNNIE36]

ERD50

Well, guess I should have dampened my critique by not including "everything" as cheap. When I look at a credenza of the simplist design, made of pressed wood and painted black for $200 compared to a decent "solid wood" piece of furniture at Home Goods for $300, there is no question in my mind which one I'm going to buy. Oh, did I mention that the one at IKEA has to be assembled. Does anyone else have a Home Goods store near them? I think they're a great discount decorating store that is part of the Marshall's and TJ Max chain.

 

[FinanceDude]

And perfect plumb construction can all be worthless if you have an inch or two of differential settlement over the decades and a crack develops in the walls in the middle of your house. Happens all the time with foundations built on compacted clay (like we have in my local area). And clay settles sloooooowly, so you may not see much settlement for years.

Welcome to my world.........

 

[FUEGO]

Welcome to my world.........

It's my world too. We have a small crack between the two sides of our split level house. It is like the wall acts as a hinge and the two sides of the house are revolving ever so slightly around that hinge. No increase has been observed in the crack, but it is obvious that it changes width since previous patch jobs are noticeable yet ineffective at concealing it. And we have noticed the cabinets in the kitchen separate from the ceiling at times up to 1/4 inch. Right now they are flush though.

Ahhh, old houses... Full of "character".

 

[ERD50]

It's my world too. We have a small crack between the two sides of our split level house. It is like the wall acts as a hinge and the two sides of the house are revolving ever so slightly around that hinge. No increase has been observed in the crack, but it is obvious that it changes width since previous patch jobs are noticeable yet ineffective at concealing it. And we have noticed the cabinets in the kitchen separate from the ceiling at times up to 1/4 inch. Right now they are flush though.

Ahhh, old houses... Full of "character".

Have you talked to your ins co? I recall a horror story about something along these lines, and the ins co would not pay, saying that if they were informed of the problem earlier, they could have had it fixed for much less.

That may not apply here, but you might want to look into it and make sure you are protected.

-ERD50

 

[free4now]

There was a time when I had the time and energy to build my own furniture, and furnished about half my place with the fruit of my labor. Of course because I was building it myself I tended to overengineer rather than try to get away with the minimum strength possible. I think this factor, lack of engineering, is actually what makes most "old solid" furniture so reliable. People overbuilt because they didn't know any other way.

But I must admit a certain feeling of regret to having built my own stuff. It's heavier and harder to move than Ikea style furniture, so it tends to tie me down. The moving cost for long distances would be significantly greater than the cost of buying new (or craigslist) furniture. And of course there's the sentimental value, "I can't freecycle that, I built that".

If worse came to worse and I needed to move halfway across the country to a lower cost of living zone, my handbuilt furniture would be an anchor weighing me down. It also tends to keep me tied to particular floorplans and in one case was a big factor in a home purchase.

Given that the average family moves every seven years, I'm not so convinced that buying 100 year furniture is so sensible.

A while back I remember trying to sell a super solid Singer sewing machine table that was a hand me down. It was such a thing of beauty, but nobody has any need for sewing machine tables anymore, so it was basically unsaleable. Certainly the same technological obsolence issues plague computer desks and TV stands.

I knew someone who spent thousands of dollars on a beautiful new Quaker solid oak dining room table, which probably would last 100 years. Then they sold it for pennies on the dollar a few years later, moving to a new home where it wouldn't fit.

Perhaps craigslist will help furniture circulate more. Posting and browsing photos online is a great advance over driving all over town to garage sales and classified ads, where 95% of the items you look at are not even close to what you want.

As for me, I'm sticking with higher-end ikea and craigslist for my purchases.

 

[mf15]

My pet peve is baby furniture, lots of it such as night stands are made out of pressed
cardboard, if it says wood it is pressed sawdust. Put a screw into it and it splits, very dangerous crap. Needs to say solid wood.
Other peve is regulaar furniture, made in china or vietnam, but the prices are like
it is made out of solid wood and from North Carolina.
Old Mike

 

[FUEGO]

My pet peve is baby furniture, lots of it such as night stands are made out of pressed
cardboard, if it says wood it is pressed sawdust. Put a screw into it and it splits, very dangerous crap

What is the desired lifespan of baby furniture? As a parent, I can't see using most of the stuff more than a couple of years. Maybe a few more years if one has many children.

Given the salvage value of used furniture, there doesn't seem to be a good reason to pay a lot of money for high quality baby furniture based solely on financial reasons. Maybe aesthetics though.

I think the most important consideration in selection of appropriate goods is finding something that meets your needs without greatly exceeding them.

 

[FUEGO]

Have you talked to your ins co? I recall a horror story about something along these lines, and the ins co would not pay, saying that if they were informed of the problem earlier, they could have had it fixed for much less.

That may not apply here, but you might want to look into it and make sure you are protected.

The settlement issues have been here since we bought the place 6 years ago. Probably a combination of settlement and old wood framing that changes slightly with air temps and humidity levels throughout the year.

Our insurance doesn't cover ground subsidence in any event. And there hasn't been an identifiable "cause" to have the insurance company pay a claim. As far as I can tell the house is structurally sound and no increase in cracks or separation has been observed other than the periodic oscillation of separations with a period of many months or perhaps a year.

 

[eridanus]

nm

 

[Milton]

insurance defense law firms are paid by insurance companies. Rates are low, the insurance companies look at bills for anything they can deny, and the emphasis is to get it done as cheap as possible.

So true. Some (most?) insurers now use computer software to review accounts, automatically disallowing legal fees when certain words are used. So docketing becomes a game, employing euphemisms that won't get picked up by the software.

Well, I've had it with IKEA.... I did like there cafeteria. Nice touch!

 

[freebird5825]

You can never go wrong with solid wood!

Freebird, no comments from the peanut gallery.......

I was on summer vacation, so this one got by me. Darn...darn...darn