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10-18-2011, 09:58 AM
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#21
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gone traveling
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 3,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestwifeever
So what else is new.
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Thus the quote "Making a mountain out of a molehill" ...
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10-18-2011, 10:14 AM
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#22
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
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I also think there's a distinction to be made about the so-called "99%". My understanding (could be wrong) is that it's not simply the "least wealthy" 99% of the population, but the 99% who are not politically connected because of wealth. Not all of the wealthy are part of what they perceive as the plutocracy -- and I think the "1%" for these purposes references the entities which are part of the plutocracy.
Plus, "we are the 99%" is a simpler catch-phrase than, for example, "we are the 99.62%" (or whatever).
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
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10-18-2011, 01:07 PM
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#23
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29
... the 99% who are not politically connected because of wealth. ...
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Or, "the 99% who are not wealthy because they are not politically connected"
There is some substance to some of the complaints, but in my opinion, they ought to be spending at least as much time protesting Capitol Hill.
-ERD50
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10-18-2011, 05:39 PM
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#24
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50
Or, "the 99% who are not wealthy because they are not politically connected"
There is some substance to some of the complaints, but in my opinion, they ought to be spending at least as much time protesting Capitol Hill.
-ERD50
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I think that's one of the things that makes this protest at least a little different (note that I didn't say correct). They realize that protesting the politicians isn't effective, that the corporations are often running things.
"Separation of corporation and state" is one of their cute catchphrases I believe.
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10-18-2011, 06:25 PM
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#25
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arebelspy
I think that's one of the things that makes this protest at least a little different (note that I didn't say correct). They realize that protesting the politicians isn't effective, that the corporations are often running things.
"Separation of corporation and state" is one of their cute catchphrases I believe.
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Could be, but it still seems mostly misplaced to me.
Corporations cannot affect laws/regulations unless a politician agrees to it, so it should still be the politicians that they should be directing most of that angst at.
If the cops are accepting bribes, should we complain about crooked cops, or bribe offer-ers? Sure, some blame rests on each of them, but it seems to me the bribe takers are the ones with the responsibility to serve the public, and the ones that should be held to a higher standard.
-ERD50
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10-18-2011, 08:56 PM
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#26
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Waimanalo, HI
Posts: 1,881
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__________________
Greg (retired in 2010 at age 68, state pension)
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10-19-2011, 09:28 AM
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#27
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
I hope that when election time comes around, the competiting candidates discuss their concept of "wealth" in some dollars and cents detail that omits the vargaries, emotionalism and subjectivity that's going around today.
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I don't think that is how modern campaigns are conducted, much less won. I expect this year's show to be considerably worse than even the hideous earlier ones.
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
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10-19-2011, 09:35 AM
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#28
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50
Could be, but it still seems mostly misplaced to me.
Corporations cannot affect laws/regulations unless a politician agrees to it, so it should still be the politicians that they should be directing most of that angst at.
If the cops are accepting bribes, should we complain about crooked cops, or bribe offer-ers? Sure, some blame rests on each of them, but it seems to me the bribe takers are the ones with the responsibility to serve the public, and the ones that should be held to a higher standard.
-ERD50
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If there is money available to fund corruption, corruption will rise to absorb that money. Humans taken as a group seem to be almost infinitely corruptable. It's like if candy is available, children will eat it. Best to dry up the source of candy if you want children to eat less of it.
Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
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10-19-2011, 09:36 AM
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#29
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GTA
Posts: 1,728
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From the article: "Most of those in the bottom half of the top 1% lack power and global flexibility and are essentially well-compensated workhorses for the top 0.5%, just like the bottom 99%. "
Just call me Trigger.
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10-19-2011, 09:56 AM
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#31
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
So it only takes $1.2MM of investable assets to make it into the top 1% and only $1.8MM for the top 0.5% ?
As mentioned in the article that sure won't sustain a "wealthy" lifestyle very long.
I wonder about those figures.
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I thought those figures thrown out were way too low.
This reference, that quotes 2004 US household net worth shows that (in 2004) to be in the top 1% that you needed $6MM
http://www.mynetworthblog.com/net-wo...-rich-o-meter/
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10-19-2011, 10:15 AM
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#32
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,558
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I've always felt that "household income" is a pretty inexact measure of affluence.
A household income of $200k for a family of four with two income earners is a lot different than a single person making $200k per year, but all of the discussions lump them together.
The family generally has a much lower tax rate than the single person (and higher living expenses).
Note also that they are talking about adjusted gross income, for the most part, so your participation in 401k plans can make a big difference in your ranking.
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10-19-2011, 04:16 PM
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#33
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 14,183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
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I'm pretty rank...
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire
...not doing anything of true substance...
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10-19-2011, 04:45 PM
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#34
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,985
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With the income requirement I guess I'm closer to the original definition of a 1%er -Outlaw Biker- Than the top affluent category.
__________________
Took SS at 62 and hope I live long enough to regret the decision.
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10-19-2011, 05:23 PM
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#35
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,645
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I am not sure why people are panning "the 1%."
Isn't it the American Dream to make it there?
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10-19-2011, 06:51 PM
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#36
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2008
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 8,765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
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I was suspicious about these numbers too. I went to the Wealth Calculator that you listed, and ended up in the 84%, which seemed low according to the numbers that have been thrown around. They have a link to another calculator based on wealth instead of income - The Wealth Report - WSJ. I entered my number and came out at 97%, which while nice was certainly not in the 99+% range which is where some of the other comments would have me. These percentiles seem more likely to me.
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Anonymous (not Will Rogers or Sam Clemens)
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
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10-19-2011, 07:54 PM
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#37
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Portland
Posts: 4,946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmerbill
I am not sure why people are panning "the 1%."
Isn't it the American Dream to make it there?
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I suspect some of the folks not yet in the 1% are getting annoyed with the cleat marks on their shoulders.
Not to worry, though. Someday, everyone will be in the 1%, except for the slackers and the unmotivated. It'll be our Lake Woebegone moment.
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10-19-2011, 08:40 PM
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#38
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette
I suspect some of the folks not yet in the 1% are getting annoyed with the cleat marks on their shoulders.
Not to worry, though. Someday, everyone will be in the 1%, except for the slackers and the unmotivated. It'll be our Lake Woebegone moment.
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Like this guy
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10-20-2011, 07:18 AM
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#39
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gone traveling
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB
Like this guy
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Hopefully that is not you without the hat
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10-20-2011, 09:48 AM
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#40
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB
Like this guy
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This is why I want to ER!
__________________
Retired in 2013 at age 33. Keeping busy reading, blogging, relaxing, gaming, and enjoying the outdoors with my wife and 3 kids (8, 13, and 15).
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