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Old 01-03-2023, 05:56 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
If it were not for the fact that the general population has proven that they are, more often than not, totally incapable of saving for retirement, you would have some good points. Proof positive is the totally pathetic amount of retirement savings for most people currently in their 50s and 60s.

Big daddy isn't taking anything, it's still the employees money. If they prefer a tIRA or a Roth or a taxable brokerage account then the can simply opt-out and contribute to a tIRA or Roth or taxable account. Easy peasy.

If we don't let "daddy" help steer people who are unwilling to save for retirement to save, then the rest of us who act responsibly will end up having to help pay for them.

It is their money, and if they don't want anything withheld they can just opt-out.

Where you state it should be opt-in only I think you are just plain wrong.
I basically agree.
But clearly, just putting $7000 per year into an IRA of either type isn't going to get most folks to retirement anytime soon...
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Old 01-03-2023, 08:03 PM   #62
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I basically agree.
But clearly, just putting $7000 per year into an IRA of either type isn't going to get most folks to retirement anytime soon...
Fair point, but... $7k a year for ages 23-62 accreted at 5% annually is $846k which using the 4% rule would generate $33,824 of withdrawals annually and you have SS on top of that.

=FV(5%,(62-22),-7000,0) = $846k

And that doesn't consider that the $7k limit increases each year for inflation.
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Old 01-03-2023, 08:08 PM   #63
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... If they can mandate 401k participation... would they please make FICA voluntary?
To be clear though, this isn't "mandating" 401k participation because an employee can opt-out.

Given the pathetic amount of retirement savings that many of our generation have with a voluntary system for 401k contributions can you imagine what a mess we would be in if FICA was voluntary as you suggest? A very poor idea for sure.

The unfortunate reality is that most people don't understand delayed gratification, live from paycheck-to-paycheck and would have nothing saved for retirement if not for FICA... and this opt-out provision will help many save so we who do save don't have to bail them out.
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Old 01-04-2023, 10:06 AM   #64
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To be clear though, this isn't "mandating" 401k participation because an employee can opt-out.
Not only can they opt-out, but annually they can make withdrawals. I experienced that with the place I w****ed before. Contributions would be made, matches would be made, and then a new caw was purchased or a vacation was taken and the account went down to near $0. Then the cycle starts again. You can't fix stupid (and these people were in the financial service industry!!!)
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