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01-16-2019, 03:58 PM
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#41
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,512
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My thoughts - the EU was not formed to deal with trade, or barriers, or security needs. It was formed to prevent the horror of war within Europe (two devastating, devastating wars within 25 years) from happening again. It has developed further as these other considerations became more clear. European countries, individually, were tiny before the might of the USA, the Soviet Union, China. A more united Europe could establish a more equal footing. It is a remarkable achievement. Individual nation-states voluntarily surrendering some sovereignty to achieve a better life for their inhabitants. In this, it has been successful. The standard of living of Europeans has increased. But the same issues caused by capitalism exist in Europe: the more recent redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy. As the ruling groups are unwilling or unable to address this problem, they end up dealing with the symptoms.
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July 12, 2018. On safari to stay!
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01-16-2019, 04:03 PM
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#42
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 581
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The Brexit issue is because 64 per cent of young people did not bother to take themselves down to the polling station and cast their ballot, they didn't think it could possibly happen. Very similar to what happened in the US 2016 election. Elections have consequences.
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01-16-2019, 04:20 PM
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#43
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Dutchess County
Posts: 1,599
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01-16-2019, 04:25 PM
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#44
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Madison
Posts: 1,337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beststash
The Brexit issue is because 64 per cent of young people did not bother to take themselves down to the polling station and cast their ballot, they didn't think it could possibly happen. Very similar to what happened in the US 2016 election. Elections have consequences.
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So true
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Wild Bill shoulda taken more out of his IRA when he could have. . . .
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01-16-2019, 04:56 PM
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#45
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17,242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Popeye
They should just take the hard break and join NAFTA 2.0
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I can tell you that when I was living there there were more than a few people who said they would rather be the 51st state than be in the EU....
I do not think the hard Brexit will be as bad as people think... first, no money to pay... second, the EU gets a lot of stuff from the UK and I would think they would want to continue to do so...
After the hard Brexit then the two sides can actually discuss an agreement on equal footing... right now the UK is in a bad negotiating position...
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01-16-2019, 07:52 PM
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#46
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: DC area
Posts: 2,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
After the hard Brexit then the two sides can actually discuss an agreement on equal footing... right now the UK is in a bad negotiating position...
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+1
__________________
FI and Semi-ER March 24, 2017
Consulting to stay engaged
"All models are wrong, some are useful." - George Box
“There is always a well-known solution to every human problem: neat, plausible, and wrong.” - H.L. Mencken
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01-27-2019, 11:11 AM
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#47
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 915
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While it can't always be avoided, I don't think 50% +1 type votes do justice in polling public opinion on a topic, particularly complex issues. I try to research as much as I can before voting for stuff and I still end up wishy washy. IMO, referendums should be non-binding and it really needs to hit more of a 60%+ threshold to obtain a mandate even though it's a tough target to hit on divided issues. There's talk about running a second referendum but I don't see it happening.
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Good Riddance. April 2022
"Yes, there's some shady stuff going down but it's fuelled by stupidity."
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02-16-2019, 09:11 AM
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#48
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,796
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Wasn't it the 'refugee crisis' and the resulting acceleration of the so-called 'Islamization' of England, that put things over the top, and got the Brexit referendum started?
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02-16-2019, 11:17 AM
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#49
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 1,433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt III
Wasn't it the 'refugee crisis' and the resulting acceleration of the so-called 'Islamization' of England, that put things over the top, and got the Brexit referendum started?
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At the very least it was the recognition by certain parties that the weaponization of this 'crisis' could be an effective political tool.
[Just waiting for the Mods to delete both our posts]
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03-12-2019, 02:04 PM
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#50
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,087
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May's deal is officially dead. No Deal gets a vote tomorrow, which will fail. Then delay is the next vote. Looks like Brexit, if it happens at all, will not be hard. Some Norway variant, with FoM much more likely now.
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03-12-2019, 02:40 PM
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#51
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 7,591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stepford
At the very least it was the recognition by certain parties that the weaponization of this 'crisis' could be an effective political tool.
[Just waiting for the Mods to delete both our posts]
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The EU is a bit like a scratchy shirt. Not that comfortable for the diversity of economies and viewpoints.
EU drawing a hard line so as to not make it easy for future "defectors".
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Brexit = Hotel California
03-15-2019, 09:48 AM
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#52
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,724
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Brexit = Hotel California
You can check out anytime you like,
But you can never leave.
Quote:
A series of Brexit votes have taken place in the Commons:
On Tuesday, MPs rejected Mrs May's withdrawal agreement for a second time by 149 votes
On Wednesday, MPs voted to reject the idea of the UK leaving the EU without a deal under any circumstances
Then, on Thursday, the Commons voted by 413 to 202 to seek an extension to Article 50 - the legal mechanism by which the UK is due to leave the EU
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From BBC, here https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47579033
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03-15-2019, 09:55 AM
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#53
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Champaign
Posts: 4,729
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Here we are again
I'm not a betting person, but this I would bet on, a national re vote, as stated in my previous posts here. Three months is plenty of time.
__________________
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
Ralph Waldo Emerson
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03-15-2019, 09:56 AM
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#54
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Florida's First Coast
Posts: 7,723
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I am not sure they will ever leave. Seems like a bunch of posturing to waste taxpayers money and appease the Leave crowd, who probably were not aware of or even bothered to research the ramifications when they voted.
We (DW & me) are watching carefully, as we are considering in moving back to the UK which traditionally had a reasonably sane governing body. We would be in the Remain camp if we lived there now.
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"Never Argue With a Fool, Onlookers May Not Be Able To Tell the Difference." - Mark Twain
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03-15-2019, 09:59 AM
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#55
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chattanooga
Posts: 499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider
I am not sure they will ever leave. Seems like a bunch of posturing to waste taxpayers money and appease the Leave crowd, who probably were not aware of or even bothered to research the ramifications when they voted.
We (DW & me) are watching carefully, as we a considering in moving back to the UK which traditionally had a reasonably sane governing body. We would be in the Remain camp if we lived there now.
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Ditto
__________________
Currently SKI-ing (spending the Kids' Inheritance)
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03-15-2019, 10:09 AM
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#56
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 8,368
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I left there, (eagerly) at age 17, almost 60 years ago. Other than a cousin and her husband (in our age group) who, due to family obligations, are now too old to relocate, (and other than the fact that I don't want to see any of our investments disrupted).....I pretty much feel the same as I did looking out the airplane window as our final flight took off from Riyadh.
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"Exit, pursued by a bear."
The Winter's Tale, William Shakespeare
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03-15-2019, 11:37 AM
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#57
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Carlos, CA
Posts: 639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fosterscik
Ditto
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Ditto x2.
Many things in the UK have changed for the better since I left 42 years ago. Mostly due, directly or indirectly, to EU membership. In my opinion.
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03-15-2019, 03:54 PM
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#58
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northern Ohio
Posts: 3,182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rianne
I'm not a betting person, but this I would bet on, a national re vote, as stated in my previous posts here. Three months is plenty of time.
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One issue with a three month delay is that it pushes Brexit past the EU elections in May. If that happens the EU will have to contend with a fair number of British anti-EU MEPs in Brussels/Strasburg.
It also feeds into the already existing impression that the EU encourages revotes until the "correct" answer comes up. Of course the revotes stop at that point.
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03-15-2019, 11:19 PM
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#59
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 7,591
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They need the hard exit now so they can negotiate a new deal with EU on equal terms.
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03-15-2019, 11:41 PM
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#60
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 38,145
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I don’t think there is going to be a hard exit.
It’s been an interesting process.
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Retired since summer 1999.
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