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4K Monitor
Old 10-12-2021, 09:28 PM   #1
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4K Monitor

DW’s computer can output 4K (mine only does HD). She uses her computer for pictures - just viewing, she is not a professional photographer and does not do any editing beyond very basic clean up like a crease in a scanned picture.

Is there any reason/benefit she would get from a monitor with a high refresh rate? 60Hz monitors are relatively inexpensive compared to the 120Hz or higher refresh rates. Would it be worth the extra money given her usage?
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Old 10-12-2021, 09:31 PM   #2
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My understanding is that 60 Hz is fine for static images like pictures. It is the gamers and movie editors that benefit from the high refresh rates.
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Old 10-13-2021, 08:18 AM   #3
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I'd also question the move to a 4K monitor. In general, marketing to the public becomes a numbers game, rather than quality. You'll pay for that 4K number, so $ for $, a lower rez monitor will have a higher quality in other areas, that might actually be more important to you in actual use. Same for the 60 vs 120.

https://www.howtogeek.com/661321/are...-computer-use/

Quote:
You Might Value Other Features More

It’s true that 4K displays are a lot cheaper than they used to be, but so are non-4Ks. The type of panel used in a display can also affect image quality in a big way. The cheapest are almost always TN panels, which is the oldest of the LCD technologies.


Cheap 4K monitors also use TN panels. These have poor viewing angles, subpar color reproduction, and disappointing contrast ratios, resulting in washed-out blacks. Meanwhile, IPS panels offer better blacks and viewing angles, while VAs offer the best color reproduction and contrast ratios at the expense of input lag.

High refresh rate monitors are increasingly common, too. These displays are smoother because they refresh the image more times per second than the 60 Hz standard. A 144 or 240 Hz monitor provides a buttery smooth desktop experience for less than the cost of many 60 Hz 4K displays.

RELATED: Do You Need a High Refresh Rate Monitor for Office Work?

Low-cost monitors often skimp on brightness, as well, which can be especially frustrating if your office is well-lit. If you’re willing to spend the money, you can get 4K monitors with high brightness levels that are capable of HDR playback. However, you can also find these features for a cheaper price on 1080p or 2K monitors.
So unless you plan to post your purchase in the "Blow That Dough!" thread, you might want to think about what features are important to your budget.


This numbers game was especially prevalent in digital cameras a while back. Pixel count was the "number" that people equated with "quality". But to get those bigger numbers at a price point, they skimped on the things that really mattered, like image size, noise, low light performance, color accuracy, cheaper lens, etc.

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Old 10-13-2021, 11:00 PM   #4
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60Hz is fine. When you use 120 or 240Hz, you get a soap opera effect. I bought a Samsung 32" 4K monitor a few years ago and it's fantastic for photo/video/sound editing and just about any application. It's much better than having multiple 1080P monitors that I had previously.
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Old Yesterday, 10:37 PM   #5
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Not correct. The refresh rate of the monitor is independent of the frame rate of the content.

That soap opera effect happens when the tv has a built in processor that creates extra ‘fake’ frames from a 24 FPS movie.

Even watching 24 FPS with fake frames filling up 60 FPS will give the effect.
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Old Yesterday, 10:42 PM   #6
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In general the benefit of higher frame rate screens is so we do not detect flicker. Even a 24fps movie on film in an analogue projector used to triple flash each frame to avoid screen flicker.
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Old Today, 06:53 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by captain3d View Post
Not correct. The refresh rate of the monitor is independent of the frame rate of the content.

That soap opera effect happens when the tv has a built in processor that creates extra ‘fake’ frames from a 24 FPS movie.

Even watching 24 FPS with fake frames filling up 60 FPS will give the effect.
Can anyone point me to a good, detailed description of the 'soap opera effect'?

I've googled it before, and did again just now, and I get circular, non-informative responses. Things like "the interpolation makes it look like the cheap soap operas that were video taped, or a raw video feed". Not helpful, I already figured that the 'soap opera effect' has something to do with looking like a soap opera - DUH!

OK, but what about that video tape/feed process makes it look different, and why does interpolating make things look subjectively worse? I can't think of any technical reason why interpolation of frames would make things look worse. It's a common data smoothing technique in all sorts of applications.

The only thing that comes to mind is thinking about one of those dramatic slow motion videos of someone running along a beach. If I interpolated, would I get a motion blur effect? But I wouldn't think this would happen at 120 Hz.

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Old Today, 08:12 AM   #8
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I can't explain it as well as Tom Cruise does:



But besides, that...it's kinda... you know it when you see it. I watched a DC (superhero) movie in a hotel once and it was so fake, it was like... "oh hey see those actors running around a movie set?" You can just see a difference, it's jarring enough for me that it completely kills what I'm watching.
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Old Today, 08:15 AM   #9
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24 FPS traditionally used for cinematic movies uses longer exposures per fame. So if you pause on a frame in the middle of fast action you will see motion blur.

This style of image is culturally associated with ‘high quality’ movie making. The lack of frame rate and more blur ‘feels’ like a movie.

NTSC tv was a 30 FPS based system but it was interleaved and the tv scanned twice giving a partial image update every 60th of a second. This required shorter exposure time and less blur.

As the frame gets faster it allows us to see more sharp motion information. It does not ‘feel’ like a movie anymore. Ironically as we see more detail it becomes easier for us to tell that the people are acting and feels more fake.

More detail from a high res image 4K etc combined with more motion detail from higher frame rates is excellent for sport or nature content as we see even more ‘reality’. When we do this for movies we see more ‘fakeness’.

Many TVs have a fake motion smoothing option that will generate extra frames in between the originals and make movies look like ‘soap operas’

I would describe it as looking glassy smooth. Less dream like and more harsh reality. Something like the difference between a guitar sound with a bit of distortion compare to another that is clean but less characterful.

Have a search on YouTube about the problems of high frame rate cinema and you should see some comparisons.
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Old Today, 08:23 AM   #10
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And just to be clear. A high refresh screen does not cause this problem. It is the content production technique or fake frames that cause it. High refresh screens are more comfortable to look at.

Scrolling and mouse movement will be smoother and more relaxing as you want interaction to match reality as much as possible.
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Old Today, 09:03 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain3d View Post
24 FPS traditionally used for cinematic movies uses longer exposures per fame. So if you pause on a frame in the middle of fast action you will see motion blur.

This style of image is culturally associated with ‘high quality’ movie making. The lack of frame rate and more blur ‘feels’ like a movie.

NTSC tv was a 30 FPS based system but it was interleaved and the tv scanned twice giving a partial image update every 60th of a second. This required shorter exposure time and less blur.

As the frame gets faster it allows us to see more sharp motion information. It does not ‘feel’ like a movie anymore. Ironically as we see more detail it becomes easier for us to tell that the people are acting and feels more fake.

More detail from a high res image 4K etc combined with more motion detail from higher frame rates is excellent for sport or nature content as we see even more ‘reality’. When we do this for movies we see more ‘fakeness’.

Many TVs have a fake motion smoothing option that will generate extra frames in between the originals and make movies look like ‘soap operas’

I would describe it as looking glassy smooth. Less dream like and more harsh reality. Something like the difference between a guitar sound with a bit of distortion compare to another that is clean but less characterful.

Have a search on YouTube about the problems of high frame rate cinema and you should see some comparisons.
Excellent explanation. Thank you.
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Old Today, 09:11 AM   #12
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Here is Youtube explanation opinion...

https://youtu.be/OaZnxAfcvY4
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Old Today, 09:50 AM   #13
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High monitor refresh rates update the image on your screen more frequently, thus reducing flickering. This can be easier on the eyes if you spend a lot of time in front of your monitor. Even though most people don't notice flickering even at the standard 50hz/60hz rates, the slower rates can still cause eye strain and headaches.

https://www.commonwealth.com/insight...sy-on-the-eyes

Higher refresh rates can also reduce blurring since there are fewer gaps between moving images.

https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/...lained-2948180
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