Arctic Air cooler

[NW-Bound]

^^^

If the weather is just right, it makes it easier to live off solar power. And out here in the west, it's not cloudy often.

I don't know how cold it gets where you are, but to run an evap cooler 24/7 off solar panels+battery is a lot easier than running an AC. It also depends on your electric rate.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

Surprised that your utility actually promotes the install of evaporative coolers considering the water shortage issues in your area. In my area of Arizona they haven't been allowed in new builds for many years due to drought issues, pretty sure other areas in the southwest have similar rules.

I think all new builds have central a/c and heating these days but portable window swamp coolers are still available at Lowes and Home Depot for people who want to reduce their energy usage. Since California has an energy problem as well as a water one they seem to have turned a blind eye at least for now.
Before I ripped my lawn out i was using 6-9 units in the summer, now i only use 2 units including the swamp cooler. I recycle the water that drains from the cooler for my plants and trees.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

My latest electric bill is $70 so solar would not be cost effective for me.
We also have a lot of wind which just ripped the rain gutter off my eaves on Saturday so the thought of solar panels on my 2 story roof would cause me so much anxiety I'd simply never do it.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

Ben Franklin sent a letter to a colleague about his experiments into air cooling after he noticed that the wind blowing across his damp shirt cooled his body better than a dry one.

https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-08-02-0023

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

Since we're taking about cooling I thought I'd share this from a Newsletter this morning.

Survey Results!
Curious to learn about cheap things other Clark.com newsletter readers are doing to keep their homes cool? Here are a few of the submissions that we received:
Donna in Oregon: "Place a large bag or block of ice in a bucket or pot. Place it in front of or behind a fan."
R in Washington: "Put your feet in a bucket of cold water. Keep a damp washcloth in the freezer to put around the back of your neck."
Joe in Michigan: "Live amongst trees! I haven't had an air conditioner in the last 22 years. Ceiling fans also help. Had some mid-90s temps recently, but it was temporary. I've survived to age 77 (so far) just fine."
Lisa in Wisconsin: "Do not use the oven and cook light meals like tuna salad sandwiches or peanut butter & jelly."
Donald in North Carolina: Keep the blinds closed on the sunny side of the house. Keep the door to the laundry room closed when running appliances. Use the microwave or air fryer instead of the stove or oven. Keep the ceiling fans on. Use ceramic tile floors vs. hardwood floors. Drink lots of iced tea.

 

[ejman]

When we retired to SW Oregon 22 years ago we bought a house without AC and budgeted for the installation of central air and heat. We had always had that convenience in prior houses in Texas and California so assumed that was the only way to fly. The prior house owners had this strange contraction in a window - a swamp cooler. We decided to experiment with using it for our first summer here (temps here normally get into the 90's during the summer with occasional 100's but very low humidity). Here we are 22 years latter still using the swamp cooler. We put it in the window mid June and take it out mid September - works great. We very occasionally get a warm humid front from the SW and then it doesn't work so well but fortunately that is a rare event in the summer months. Our lowest energy consumption is in the summer months. We use well water and it does have high calcium content. I replace the aspen pads every couple of years as the calcium builds up - they are cheap. Love the aspen woodsy smell in the house.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Swamp coolers work great in northern Nevada because of low humidity. Like anything else they require maintenance, cleaning and winterizing. The downside is that the room it’s located in must be really cold for the rest of the house to be comfortable. A window in another room must be slightly open to keep it from blowing out. You also can’t have the window open much for it to work correctly. We had it in our house and saved a lot over using AC.

 

[zinger1457]

Swamp coolers work great in northern Nevada because of low humidity. Like anything else they require maintenance, cleaning and winterizing. The downside is that the room it’s located in must be really cold for the rest of the house to be comfortable. A window in another room must be slightly open to keep it from blowing out. You also can’t have the window open much for it to work correctly. We had it in our house and saved a lot over using AC.

I guess it depends on the design but most of the whole house swamp coolers I've seen and used had a duct system just like a central AC system with a register in each room, just no return duct. If the winds blowing outside best to open windows that aren't directly downwind.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I guess it depends on the design but most of the whole house swamp coolers I've seen and used had a duct system just like a central AC system with a register in each room, just no return duct. If the winds blowing outside best to open windows that aren't directly downwind.

We lived in a 1950’s house with electric heat. The swamp cooler was in a window and big enough for the whole house. You misunderstood my comment about the window. If you run a window one without having a window partially open somewhere in the house you will blow out the unit.

 

[NW-Bound]

I guess it depends on the design but most of the whole house swamp coolers I've seen and used had a duct system just like a central AC system with a register in each room, just no return duct. If the winds blowing outside best to open windows that aren't directly downwind.

Yes. A whole-house swamp cooler even shares the same duct work with a central AC/heat pump.

When the AC is used, all windows need to be closed. Also, a slide damper is used to prevent the AC air from being blown back out the swamp cooler.

Instead of keeping windows partially open, a swamp cooler user can install devices called Up-Dux. It is installed in the ceiling, and vents the air to the attic. It has a flap that opens by the air pressure created when the swamp cooler blows air into the house. To prevent an interior fire from spreading up to the attic, an automatic damper is released by a thermal fuse in case of a fire.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

Nowadays this is the norm, it fits in the window and cools the whole house.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/MasterC...orative-Cooler-for-2000-sq-ft-MCP59/304156139

I have the older style, this monster also fits in a window but certainly not a slim profile

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Champio...with-Motor-and-Remote-Control-RWC50/100185332

 

[NW-Bound]

Nowadays this is the norm, it fits in the window and cools the whole house.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/MasterC...orative-Cooler-for-2000-sq-ft-MCP59/304156139

I have the older style, this monster also fits in a window but certainly not a slim profile

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Champio...with-Motor-and-Remote-Control-RWC50/100185332

Holy cow! 4000-CFM and 4700-CFM in a window-mounted format. These would blow away anything in that room that is not anchored down!

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

I installed it in the dining room that I rarely use for that very reason but it doesn't really blow anything around and I usually keep it at a slow speed. The cat lies on the coffee table in front of it, she loves it.
I actually got it from my daughter because it was too cold for her and they had installed it in a window opposite the couch. They could have moved it but she was done with it from the start so I took it and it's saved me a ton of money in the last ten years.
There is definitely a learning curve with these in the beginning though.

 

[zinger1457]

Holy cow! 4000-CFM and 4700-CFM in a window-mounted format. These would blow away anything in that room that is not anchored down!

And as mentioned above probably not very good at keeping a consistent temp throughout all rooms in the house.

 

[NW-Bound]

And as mentioned above probably not very good at keeping a consistent temp throughout all rooms in the house.

The high airflow of a swamp cooler makes the temperature more even than a central AC when used with a duct network.

You have to adjust the window openings of each room to distribute the air properly via this discharge exit.


My parents had a home with a central swamp cooler with ductwork. In the 80s, they had an AC added and retrofitted to the same ductwork. They had money then to afford more comfort in the monsoon season, when the higher humidity raised the discharged air from the swam cooler to the high 80Fs, or even 90F.

90F is much better than 115F outside temperature. However, the added humidity from the cooler makes it uncomfortable.

 

[rtroxel]

Thank you, everyone, for a helpful discussion.

I did "run into" an ad for something called Chillwell portable AC, but when I went to Google to search for reviews, all that came up were ads disguised as reviews. Below is a link to one of them. You can see how they are trying to fool people, by claiming to be a negative review, but ending by taking your order! Ha, ha?

https://www.techtimes.com/articles/...customer-warning-portable-ac-scam-exposed.htm

 

[Chuckanut]

Thank you, everyone, for a helpful discussion.

I did "run into" an ad for something called Chillwell portable AC, but when I went to Google to search for reviews, all that came up were ads disguised as reviews. Below is a link to one of them. You can see how they are trying to fool people, by claiming to be a negative review, but ending by taking your order! Ha, ha?

https://www.techtimes.com/articles/...customer-warning-portable-ac-scam-exposed.htm

I bet these guys also would love to sell this gizmo that you put on your roof or in the attic and it gives you dozens of FREE TV channels showing all sorts of fantastic programming - mysteries, westerns, comedy, news, etc. All FREE. No contract, no expensive convertor boxes, no fees, just FREE TV shows.

Between the Chillwell and the Super Long Range TV Signal Booster, all you need is a cold beer and a dog to bring you your slippers.

 

[imnontrad]

Model? Purchase location? I think this would be good in my bedroom. I live in a dry climate and prefer to sleep in a cooler room.

 

[GeneS]

Switching between AC and evap. cooler

"Free cold overnight desert air"?

And you don't switch during the day. The AC would have to work hard to remove the humidity that the evap cooler puts out. You do the cooler/AC switch for the season.

I live in Tucson and had always believed that, but one year I happened to switch just at the beginning of the billing period and then glanced at our daily use and saw how low our electical usage was that day. So I started experimenting and found that it really was cheaper to switch back and forth. So now at bed time I check the temp and humidity, look up the temp of the cooler air on one of those little charts and switch over to the cooler if it looks like it will be comfortable. I keep an eye on the temp in the morning and switch back when it starts to climb out of our comfort range. Some days the AC runs all day (40-50 kWh). Some days the cooler is used all day (around 22 kWh). Some days we switch back and forth (32 or so kWh). Of course you have to have a barometric damper because who's going to climb up on the roof twice a day?
Subject of course to your climate and how much you want to fuss with it. If it's too hot and/or humid at night it's not going to be comfortable.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

That's very interesting, I've never used any kind of calculator to figure out when the cooler will or won't work for me when it gets really hot at around 100 degrees.
I pretty much look outside and if I can see any clouds in our blue sky I know I might need to switch on the a/c later in the day.
I've printed one of these charts you mentioned and I'll get the dew point from the weather channel and give it a try.

 

[ERD50]

... The AC would have to work hard to remove the humidity ... .

I'm curious about this. As part of checking how our AC is operating, I'll occasionally check the delta T - measure the air at a return vent, and at an outlet vent, record the difference. Probably best to do it right at the air handler, but I like to know what's getting to the room. Seems I got numbers ~18 F delta.

That's in-line with what I've read, and I've never heard about adjusting expectations for humidity.

The beginning of this season, the delta-T seemed low, ~ 12 F. But then it seemed to cool the house OK, and later I measured more like the 18F delta I had before.

It does make sense, water in the air means denser air, harder too cool. Plus, (probably a small effect), but some of that 'cool' goes down the drain as condensation.

So maybe my low delta was just due to high humidity when I started?

-ERD50

 

[NW-Bound]

... some of that 'cool' goes down the drain as condensation.

So maybe my low delta was just due to high humidity when I started?

-ERD50

Water evaporation absorbs a lot of heat. That's how swamp coolers work.

Conversely, condensing water takes a lot of "cool".

 

[jimbee]

Water evaporation absorbs a lot of heat. That's how swamp coolers work.

Conversely, condensing water takes a lot of "cool".

Yep, latent heat vs. sensible heat.

 

[NW-Bound]

I live in Tucson and had always believed that, but one year I happened to switch just at the beginning of the billing period and then glanced at our daily use and saw how low our electical usage was that day. So I started experimenting and found that it really was cheaper to switch back and forth. So now at bed time I check the temp and humidity, look up the temp of the cooler air on one of those little charts and switch over to the cooler if it looks like it will be comfortable. I keep an eye on the temp in the morning and switch back when it starts to climb out of our comfort range. Some days the AC runs all day (40-50 kWh). Some days the cooler is used all day (around 22 kWh). Some days we switch back and forth (32 or so kWh). Of course you have to have a barometric damper because who's going to climb up on the roof twice a day?
Subject of course to your climate and how much you want to fuss with it. If it's too hot and/or humid at night it's not going to be comfortable.

I guess that by timing it right, you can save some power.

However, I wonder if the temperature and humidity swings would bother me.

Just academic though, as I do not have a swamp cooler now.

 

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
... some of that 'cool' goes down the drain as condensation.

So maybe my low delta was just due to high humidity when I started?

-ERD50

Water evaporation absorbs a lot of heat. That's how swamp coolers work.

Conversely, condensing water takes a lot of "cool".

That all makes sense. I guess I'm just surprised that I never heard this mentioned when measuring the Delta-T of an AC system. I tried searching a while back, but you get so swamped (pun intended this time!) with results about humidity removal in general, it's hard to determine if any actually address this issue.

-ERD50