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Old 06-16-2018, 09:54 PM   #81
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Regarding the flat antennas: do you just attach them to a wall and then plug them into a TV or is there more to it than that? And, does each TV need its own antenna?
You could have 1 antenna and then run that cable all over the house and plug in as many tv's to it as you like.
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Old 06-17-2018, 01:07 AM   #82
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I have been without OTA TV for 9 or 10 years, cable for over 25 years, and have never had satellite TV. I get DSL from an ISP called DSL Extreme. It's on a 12 month contract basis. The service level I chose is far slower than most folk here would be happy with. It only gives me 1.5Mbps download and 384kbps upload, but the streaming from Netflix, Hulu, and YouTube is smooth. The picture is definitely not HD quality but, quite honestly, I don't mind. Moderate to low picture quality doesn't, in my opinion, particularly degrade the narrative of a well written and well told story. TV shows, films, and YouTube videos are still very enjoyable on relatively low speed DSL connections such as mine. My internet service costs $25.83/month including the cost of the landline, and all taxes and fees. I use Hulu and Netflix whenever I can get a free trial period, and occasionally use my friend's Hulu account. The rest of the time, I find enough stuff on YouTube to keep me happy.

My entire telecommunications budget is -

Cellphone from Republic Wireless - $12.11 inc all taxes and fees
DSL - $25.83 inc cost of landline and all taxes and fees

Total monthly telecommunications cost - $37.94


Such a barebones solution would not be to everyone's taste, for sure, but I can honestly say that I do not feel I am shortchanging myself in any way.
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Old 06-17-2018, 11:04 AM   #83
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Please don't undersell yourself and the rest of us by dumbing things down just so that they fit in the small minds of those who hate detail and nuance. It serves no constructive purpose. Doing so just turns truth into error.
I'm not underselling myself. And I don't think the members of this forum have small minds. If you think the forum members hate detail and nuance you haven't been reading the same threads I have. I was trying to make a point that, once again, has gone over your head. Comparing dial up (max 56kbps... plus connection time) to broadband is not a valid comparison for most people. Broadband is defined as high speed. Dial up is not high speed. Broadband comes in several forms - DSL, cable (coax, hybrid fiber coax, fiber)... and for some people and businesses T-1.

I think it is constructive to discuss this. That dial up is not the same as broadband. You are the one who suggested it is.

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Full stop. That's where the legitimate information in your post ended. When someone questions whether there is enough competition, that is always a legal question. There is no relevance to the question without it being a legal matter.

All that is left after you remove the legal question is whether things are the way we would want them. Inexpensive or free, high quality, unlimited, etc. A consumers' dream. But just a dream.
In your mind, perhaps. But when people compare one brand of tomato soup to another - it is not a legal question. This thread was asking how people who don't have video services through cable or satellite are getting their internet. It was not a discussion of anti-trust law. People used terms like "meaningful competition".

Whether it's a dream or not is another discussion - but when a cable operator feels threatened they might lose business they do react.

FWIW - I worked in the cable tv industry for several decades. (Worked on settop box firmware and some of the apps that were on the settops.) I remember in the 90's when Telcos started rolling out video services. We were deploying upgraded services to Comcast in suburban Detroit - and yes - they were adding services and dropping their prices like crazy. I wished that I had been able to get a deal like they were offering. Having competition forced that MSO to offer more for less. That was more than a dream. The cable operator was so concerned about losing subscribers they were going door to door offering new settops with the TV Guide app and bundling it with cellular phone deals... all for less per month than they had previous offered the bare bones basic cable. Consumers were the winners. And it wasn't a dream.

Again - I would like to state clearly that I am not dumbing things down and I respect the forum members for having the intelligence to understand the details AND the bigger picture.
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Old 06-17-2018, 11:28 AM   #84
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And comments like this, plus another couple of thousand in the same spirit, are why I am thankful this board software has an "Add to Ignore List" option.
True.
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Old 06-17-2018, 11:37 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Major Tom View Post
My entire telecommunications budget is -

Cellphone from Republic Wireless - $12.11 inc all taxes and fees
DSL - $25.83 inc cost of landline and all taxes and fees

Total monthly telecommunications cost - $37.94
That is amazing! And I thought mine was low - - $30 for Cricket cell phone, including all taxes and fees, and $79.99 for mid level Cox Cable internet. Nothing spent on TV. Still, my total is $109.99/month, almost three times what you are paying. I think you must be the King of LBYM.
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Old 06-17-2018, 11:41 AM   #86
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I'm not underselling myself. And I don't think the members of this forum have small minds. ...

Again - I would like to state clearly that I am not dumbing things down and I respect the forum members for having the intelligence to understand the details AND the bigger picture.
Interesting to see someone attempt to engage this guy. I gave up a while back, there's just no 'return' for the effort, and I think it's probably fair to say I'm one of the more obstinate/persistent members here in that regard.



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And this kind of comment is why my contributions are necessary.
And comments like this, plus another couple of thousand in the same spirit, are why I am thankful this board software has an "Add to Ignore List" option.
I don't use the forum 'ignore', but I've finally managed to fine tune my own ability to not respond to certain things. And when I see comments like that, it helps me keep it tuned.

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Old 06-17-2018, 12:00 PM   #87
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And this kind of comment is why my contributions are necessary.
+1
Sometimes, I tend to take your necessary contributions on the forum for granted. Thank you for reminding me to be more appreciative more often.
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Old 06-17-2018, 12:27 PM   #88
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I was trying to make a point that, once again, has gone over your head. Comparing dial up (max 56kbps... plus connection time) to broadband is not a valid comparison for most people.
I didn't say it was "for most people" - I said it was legally. And I gave an example showing just how the authorities define commodities -- no, wait -- has defined commodities -- for the purposes of determining where there is and is not effective competition, beyond it being just personal gripes. If you really think that this FCC and this federal judiciary - those who will actually make the decisions that will affect the internet service that all of us will be offered - will see things your way instead of mine, then I think that is wishful thinking, and we'll simply have to agree to disagree.

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In your mind, perhaps. But when people compare one brand of tomato soup to another - it is not a legal question.
The sentence was, "Meaningful competition needs at least three players in the market." Refusing to see this as a legal issue, when it invariably is, is bound to lead to wrong conclusions. It insulates people from acknowledging what they need to acknowledge, in order to better represent their own interests.

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This thread was asking how people who don't have video services through cable or satellite are getting their internet.
If that were true, then bringing up the question of what is and is not meaningful competition was off-topic. Of course, it wasn't off-topic. And there is a difference of opinion about what constitutes meaningful competition. I appreciate that the thread has room for both opinions, rather than just one, especially since my opinion is almost surely going to be be echoed in what we all actually encounter in the marketplace -- i.e., is almost surely going to be the determinations of the regulators and courts when the matter is brought before them, and not because it is my opinion, but rather because it follows the patterns of decisions in similar contexts, such as the example I gave earlier.
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Old 06-17-2018, 01:12 PM   #89
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Old 06-17-2018, 01:20 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Major Tom View Post
My entire telecommunications budget is -

Cellphone from Republic Wireless - $12.11 inc all taxes and fees
DSL - $25.83 inc cost of landline and all taxes and fees

Total monthly telecommunications cost - $37.94


Such a barebones solution would not be to everyone's taste, for sure, but I can honestly say that I do not feel I am shortchanging myself in any way.

WOW! Great job!


My belief is that if you that once you are accustomed to a particular level of service, you don't really need anything better to satisfy your needs.
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Old 06-17-2018, 02:02 PM   #91
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I have been without OTA TV for 9 or 10 years, cable for over 25 years, and have never had satellite TV.
I built an antenna out of two 8" loops from a wire I found, rabbit ears, some coax, and a balun. Get every channel. Have you tried an antenna?
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Old 06-17-2018, 02:35 PM   #92
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I built an antenna out of two 8" loops from a wire I found, rabbit ears, some coax, and a balun. Get every channel. Have you tried an antenna?
(Not Major Tom, obviously)

We gave up on broadcast TV because of the ads and the fixed broadcast schedules.

So we have no motivation to configure an antenna.
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Old 06-17-2018, 02:46 PM   #93
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That is amazing! And I thought mine was low - - $30 for Cricket cell phone, including all taxes and fees, and $79.99 for mid level Cox Cable internet. Nothing spent on TV. Still, my total is $109.99/month, almost three times what you are paying. I think you must be the King of LBYM.
Why thank you, W2R! The best thing is that it doesn't feel like a hardship at all attributable mainly, I think, to the effect that njhowie mentions below -

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My belief is that if you that once you are accustomed to a particular level of service, you don't really need anything better to satisfy your needs.
That has a lot to do with it, in my case. I'm sure that many frugal types feel the same. 1.5Mbps download speed may not be super-fast by today's standards, but it allows me to browse the web, check e-mail, and stream videos online, though not at the highest quality. It's good enough for me, and still light years ahead of dial-up speed.

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I built an antenna out of two 8" loops from a wire I found, rabbit ears, some coax, and a balun. Get every channel. Have you tried an antenna?
Actually, I no longer own an OTA TV. I'm at the point where I don't feel that particular need any longer. I'm in a local high spot, so OTA reception is probably good where I am, if I felt the urge to try it.


I have a plan to move into an RV in a few years, and travel around the West Coast a bit. I'm sure my telecommunications bill will increase when I have to purchase one of those MiFi thingummies for mobile internet.
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Old 06-17-2018, 03:16 PM   #94
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I have a plan to move into an RV in a few years, and travel around the West Coast a bit. I'm sure my telecommunications bill will increase when I have to purchase one of those MiFi thingummies for mobile internet.
Might not be as bad as you think.

On a recent trip, I found myself in a hotel where the wifi was completely down. I wanted to do some things online, so I had to supply my own internet.

I had never before used the wifi hotspot feature on my phone, so I activated it with some trepidation. But I was able to log into my phone using wifi from my laptop, and it worked just fine. OK, not as fast as I'm used to, but good enough.

So my $60/month T-Mobile service (unlimited everything for two phones) saved the day, with no additional cost. If you're going to be RV-ing it for some time, it might be the best solution.
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Old 06-17-2018, 08:11 PM   #95
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I don't use the forum 'ignore', but I've finally managed to fine tune my own ability to not respond to certain things. And when I see comments like that, it helps me keep it tuned.

-ERD50
Well, I DO use the ignore feature. However, it's not of much use when everyone quotes the ignoree in their posts. People might want to keep in mind that in some threads when a really annoying person is taking part you could just respond to the post without quoting it. Just sayin'.
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Old 06-17-2018, 08:41 PM   #96
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Old 06-18-2018, 03:36 AM   #97
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“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.” ― Mark Twain

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Wise words. I'm familiar with another way of stating this, but see more humor in this version.
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Old 06-18-2018, 05:23 AM   #98
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What I see are attempts to rationalize an echo chamber, one that would lead to bewilderment when something like the Effective Competition order from the FCC gets replicated for Internet.
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Old 06-18-2018, 01:30 PM   #99
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I have a plan to move into an RV in a few years, and travel around the West Coast a bit. I'm sure my telecommunications bill will increase when I have to purchase one of those MiFi thingummies for mobile internet.
When I ran across the website linked below I thought of this ^. Maybe it will help you get some ideas about what your options are when (if ) you hit the road someday.

https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/overview/
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Old 06-18-2018, 01:36 PM   #100
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What I see are attempts to rationalize an echo chamber, one that would lead to bewilderment when something like the Effective Competition order from the FCC gets replicated for Internet.
I get the bewilderment part.
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