New Laptop Questions

[joesxm3]

I just got an HP laptop after not having one since I FIRE'd 6 years ago.

I read that leaving your cell phone on the charger past 100% was bad for the battery because it checks for wifi and drains the battery a tiny amount then charges it up over and over again. Is the same true for running the laptop on the power all the time?

I read that Tesla lithium batteries like to be charged between 20% and 80% for maximum battery life. Would that also be true of the laptop battery?

I think the laptop has what passes for a "standard" disk drive nowdays, not one of the new solid state drives. Is it still bad to move the laptop when it is powered on because it might hurt the disk drive?

Thanks.

Joe

 

[bloom2708]

If running Windows, battery management should be on. which helps lengthen the battery life. I would not worry about being plugged in most of the time.

An SSD has no moving parts, so you can move your laptop as much as you want.

You can even use your laptop on your lap when sitting in your recliner or on your couch.

 

[W2R]

I just got an HP laptop after not having one since I FIRE'd 6 years ago.

I read that leaving your cell phone on the charger past 100% was bad for the battery because it checks for wifi and drains the battery a tiny amount then charges it up over and over again. Is the same true for running the laptop on the power all the time?

I read that Tesla lithium batteries like to be charged between 20% and 80% for maximum battery life. Would that also be true of the laptop battery?

I think the laptop has what passes for a "standard" disk drive nowdays, not one of the new solid state drives. Is it still bad to move the laptop when it is powered on because it might hurt the disk drive?

Thanks.

Joe

I keep my Dell laptop connected to power 100% of the time. No battery problems. I seldom unplug it or move it. It is over my lap as I sit in my recliner, on a swivel table that I can push out of the way if I want to get up.

Bear in mind, that I also keep my cell phone connected to power 100% of the time when I'm at home. No battery problems doing that, either, at least not for the past 15-20 years. I do disconnect it and toss it in my purse when I leave the house.

At first I worried about my batteries being plugged in all the time, but then I read (somewhere?) online that batteries these days can handle it. Don't know if that's correct, but it has sure been my experience.

 

[Midpack]

Did you see what HP recommends?

You can leave it plugged in most of the time, but once in a while (like once a month), you should unplug the notebook and run it off the battery until the low battery notification comes on. Then you can connect it back up to the A/C power.

The reason you don't want to leave the notebook plugged in 100% of the time is because of the potential for battery swelling.

Here is a link which may be of help to you for how you want to proceed.

https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c06983554

Personally I don't see the advantage to leaving battery powered devices plugged in all the time, but to each his/her own.

While in the past it was unwise and even dangerous to leave your laptop plugged into an external power source all the time, new laptops are mostly using either lithium-polymer or lithium-ion batteries that won't take more charge than they can handle.

Plenty of good references online versus asking random strangers. Batteries and chargers are not all the same, some chargers protect batteries better than others.

https://www.windowscentral.com/leave-laptop-plugged

 

[mpeirce]

I think the laptop has what passes for a "standard" disk drive nowdays, not one of the new solid state drives.

I know spinning drive are cheaper, but unless someone has a very, very tight budget, I can’t imagine anyone should buy one as their main drive for a modern computer. SSDs use less power, are much more reliable and improve performance over a spinning drive.

Cheap spinning drives are fine for backup.

 

[wolf]

Just purchased HP, 17", at Costco. On Sale. $499. $200 off.

512 GB, solid state drive.
12 GB SDRAM
i5

Surprised, laptops on display, are all SSD now.

Usually, keep my laptop, in "sleep" mode. Plugged in and charging......Never had a problem with battery life.

 

[OldShooter]

... Personally I don't see the advantage to leaving battery powered devices plugged in all the time, but to each his/her own. ...

Whenever my Surface Pro is sitting in its dock, which is probably 12 hours/day, it is "plugged in." I have never worried about this. Optimizing the power supply and the battery is not a difficult engineering problem and it is hardly a new one. I'm confident that Microsoft is taking care of me on this.

Many of these tablets and laptops are not thick enough to take a mechanical disk drive. The designers are, however, trying to include the physically largest battery that they can fit. So now that SSDs are relatively cheap, they are the obvious choice. Once this trend started, it of course snowballed because of the computer speed increase that resulted.

 

[target2019]

I just got an HP laptop after not having one since I FIRE'd 6 years ago.

I read that leaving your cell phone on the charger past 100% was bad for the battery because it checks for wifi and drains the battery a tiny amount then charges it up over and over again. Is the same true for running the laptop on the power all the time?

I read that Tesla lithium batteries like to be charged between 20% and 80% for maximum battery life. Would that also be true of the laptop battery?

I think the laptop has what passes for a "standard" disk drive nowdays, not one of the new solid state drives. Is it still bad to move the laptop when it is powered on because it might hurt the disk drive?

Thanks.

Joe

Each generation of spinning HD got better as to how well it can handle a shock. Your newer model is likely to be better at this than the older one. The better choice for lots of movement would be a SSD, though.

As for battery care, you don't have a Tesla battery, but something else. Chances are that between battery smarts and OS features you shouldn't have to worry about unplugging the power adapter. You should feel how warm the adapter gets. Leave plenty of air flow around it, just like your notebook itself.

 

[RunningBum]

Many posts missed that OP has bought the laptop and it has an HDD, not SSD. To be safe, it's probably better to put the laptop to sleep when moving, just in case you should trip and drop the laptop. But when I had one with HDD I didn't do this when I was just moving from room to room on the same floor.
In advanced power options you can set your laptop to sleep when you hit the power button.

I keep mine plugged in mostly and when not plugged in I don't usually let it go to low power. I haven't noticed low battery life but since I rarely rely on battery power I probably wouldn't notice. I'm not too worried about it, but do what you think is best.

 

[ERD50]

Did you see what HP recommends? ...

Plenty of good references online versus asking random strangers. Batteries and chargers are not all the same, some chargers protect batteries better than others. ....

Agreed, OP really needs to check the specifics not only for his brand, but the specific model. They are not all the same hardware and capabilities.

.... Personally I don't see the advantage to leaving battery powered devices plugged in all the time, but to each his/her own. ...

Well, in the case of a laptop, unplugging it often means it will be going through an extra charge/discharge cycle each time, and Lithium-type batteries do have lifespans that are at least partially defined by the number of those cycles (and going from 50% to 100% counts as one-half of a cycle, etc).

Keeping it plugged in means that the laptop is running from the external power, not the battery. So the battery is charged, and discharges very slowly, as it is not supplying power, it's just the self-discharge and monitoring currents that are drawing it down over time. So very few charge/discharge cycles in that mode.

I'm not saying this means instant death or anything, there are many factors at play - but it is a factor and a reason for keeping it plugged in. It may be "to each their own" as to what they decide to do, but the advantages/disadvantages are a matter of fact, not subject to opinion.

Whenever my Surface Pro is sitting in its dock, which is probably 12 hours/day, it is "plugged in." I have never worried about this. Optimizing the power supply and the battery is not a difficult engineering problem and it is hardly a new one. I'm confident that Microsoft is taking care of me on this. ...

If running Windows, battery management should be on. which helps lengthen the battery life. I would not worry about being plugged in most of the time. ...

But Microsoft and the laptop manufacturer have constraints and priorities. The laptop maker wants to advertise maximum hours on a charge, so the default is going to be "charge to 100%", not "charge for maximum lifespan of the battery".



For a real life example, I just checked what the ASUS laptop I purchase at the end of 2021 is capable of. Turns out it does have the hardware capability to limit charging to 80, 60, or 40% - with 100% being the default out of the box. So sure, MS/mfg has provided the capability, but they can't optimize for lifespan, and provide max hours on a charge at the same time. That's up to you to choose/act.

So I'm trying this on my ASUS now, I wiped Windows from it when I got it and am running on Linux/Xubuntu, and the capabilities to control the charge levels are built in there too, so we'll see how that goes.

From the ASUS FAQ (again, note that this can be brand/model specific):

https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1032726/

-ERD50

 

[Sunset]

I just got an HP laptop after not having one since I FIRE'd 6 years ago.

.....

I think the laptop has what passes for a "standard" disk drive nowdays, not one of the new solid state drives. Is it still bad to move the laptop when it is powered on because it might hurt the disk drive?

...

It will clearly say on it or the box if the laptop has an SSD.

I replaced my disk with an SSD, and love that I don't have to worry about swinging around the laptop while it's on anymore

 

[ERD50]

Just a reminder/explanation about these charge levels:

Remember, they aren't strictly a function of the Operating System. You can charge your laptop when it is OFF/shutdown, the OS isn't doing a thing when it is isn't on and running.

So the capability to stop charging below 100% has to be built into the firmware of the charging circuit in the laptop, so it can do it even when OFF. And also remember, the thing you plug in the wall and your laptop isn't really a "charger", it is just a power supply for the charger built into your laptop.

The OS comes into play in terms of providing a way to communicate with the charging firmware, allowing the user to set the levels if they so desire. I'm not aware of any Operating System that does this auto-magically, AFAIK, they all default to 100% charge, and must be manually over-ridden if desired (and if the laptop has that capability).

-ERD50

 

[joesxm3]

Well I wasn't paying much attention when I bought it, but looking at the confirmation email is seems to say it has a 128gb SSD. Not a lot of space, but massive compared to what I plan to use it for. Got it for $325 on sale from HP so I am happy. I put an old mouse on it and am sailing along.

 

[RunningBum]

I think the laptop has what passes for a "standard" disk drive nowdays, not one of the new solid state drives.

Many posts missed that OP has bought the laptop and it has an HDD, not SSD.

Well I wasn't paying much attention when I bought it, but looking at the confirmation email is seems to say it has a 128gb SSD.

Never mind what I said then. The quality of advice is highly dependent upon the quality of the question and information given. Hard to give advice when you don't know what you have.

 

[joesxm3]

Never mind what I said then. The quality of advice is highly dependent upon the quality of the question and information given. Hard to give advice when you don't know what you have.

Sorry for the mix up and thanks for helping to you and the others.

I should have paid more attention. It was one of those deals where you pick the features and I saw some SSD upgrades that I did not choose and mistakenly assumed that I was getting an older type drive. I guess the upgrades were just for larger SSD drives.

 

[target2019]

I swapped the 1 TB HDD for a 1 TB SSD. Then I added more memory for a total of 32 GB. Virtual memory is off, so no disk memory swapping.

 

[ERD50]

UPDATE on charge levels for my ASUS laptop battery under Linux (Xubuntu)

Update to the comment below from earlier in this thread.

I did find that the ASUS FAQ included my model. Linux had a GUI to set this, but apparently it wasn't updated for the recent OS (kinda odd, it's nothing fancy), but a simple command is all it takes. So I set it to 80% as a 'full' charge (as expected, based on the hardware/firmware, it ignores the 60 entry for charge, and charges when it drops 2% points below 80, so it's always 78~80% when plugged in). It's been working as advertised.

sudo tlp setcharge 60 80 BAT0

I just need to put this in a start-up script to re-enable it automatically when I reboot (seldom).

-ERD50

....

For a real life example, I just checked what the ASUS laptop I purchase at the end of 2021 is capable of. Turns out it does have the hardware capability to limit charging to 80, 60, or 40% - with 100% being the default out of the box. So sure, MS/mfg has provided the capability, but they can't optimize for lifespan, and provide max hours on a charge at the same time. That's up to you to choose/act.

So I'm trying this on my ASUS now, I wiped Windows from it when I got it and am running on Linux/Xubuntu, and the capabilities to control the charge levels are built in there too, so we'll see how that goes.

From the ASUS FAQ (again, note that this can be brand/model specific):

https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1032726/

-ERD50

 

[SecondAttempt]

I keep my Dell laptop connected to power 100% of the time. No battery problems. I seldom unplug it or move it. It is over my lap as I sit in my recliner, on a swivel table that I can push out of the way if I want to get up.

Shortly aftre Covid started and I was working from home full time, my 3-year-old Dell laptop battery went from lasting 6 hours unplugged to 2 on a good day. I contacted support becasue it was still under warranty. They were helpful but the battery was not covered.

I bought a new battery, installed it myself, and the problem only partly resolved. Another contact with tech support and they found that the big change was installing slack. They suggested I make a few changes, actualy did them for me as I watched and they explained each one. Afterwards, my battery life on my new battery was over 9 hours and sometimes over 13! Almost 3 years later I am still over 7 hours on a full charge.

The point is your settings matter!

I just got a new Google Pixel 6 phone which is supposed to have a 25 hour battery life but won't even last 6 for me unless it not being used. I'm still sorting out settings on it.

As menioned, most new devices have battery and charge management technologies and you should set those as recommended. Mine give me a choice between best performance and best battery life. I notice no difference in performance when I opt for best battery life so I keep it there.

If your machine is new maybe you can call HP tech support and get their advice.

The point is, your settings can make a huge difference.

 

[NW-Bound]

... The laptop maker wants to advertise maximum hours on a charge, so the default is going to be "charge to 100%", not "charge for maximum lifespan of the battery".

For a real life example, I just checked what the ASUS laptop I purchase at the end of 2021 is capable of. Turns out it does have the hardware capability to limit charging to 80, 60, or 40% - with 100% being the default out of the box. So sure, MS/mfg has provided the capability, but they can't optimize for lifespan, and provide max hours on a charge at the same time. That's up to you to choose/act.

So I'm trying this on my ASUS now, I wiped Windows from it when I got it and am running on Linux/Xubuntu, and the capabilities to control the charge levels are built in there too, so we'll see how that goes.

From the ASUS FAQ (again, note that this can be brand/model specific):

https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1032726/

-ERD50

Wow, I wonder if my new Lenovo has this capability. If the hardware has this feature, I have not seen MS or Lenovo provide access to this setting, at least on this laptop.

Time to search the Web to find out more. It's bad if Linux has the software interface, but MS does not. But then, what is new?

 

[joesxm3]

I found an HP support ticket saying that non-gaming laptop BIOS does not support adaptive charging.

This feature seems not in windows but in BIOS.

 

[ERD50]

I found an HP support ticket saying that non-gaming laptop BIOS does not support adaptive charging.

This feature seems not in windows but in BIOS.

The capability to charge to a lower level needs to be in firmware somewhere (not the OS). I'm not sure but I think it is in the firmware of the charger, not the bios. I don't think the bios is 'running' when the computer is off and charging, AFAIK, the bios is just non-volatile memory at that point, nothing active?

But the capability is definitely not in Windows or any other OS. That's clear, as you can charge your battery when your computer is OFF. At that point, the OS isn't doing a darn thing! So it must be in firmware.

However, the OS might provide an interface to that firmware, so the values stored in the firmware can be changed by the user. That just depends on whether the OS designers decided to provide that interface or not.


I'll add, this has been working well on my ASUS laptop (that I 99.9% use as a desktop). I have been too lazy to add a script to set it to 80% at start-up, or to edit any of the start-up files for this. For now, I just enter a line in the terminal if I reboot (which can be weeks apart), I keep the line in my "Notes" so it's easy to get to and copy/paste.

-ERD50.

 

[joesxm3]

Probably not in bios as you say, but my laptop when turned off is capable of displaying an orange light that turns to white when charged. Must be some charging circuit firmware in the laptop. I would imagine they would protect the laptop from overcharging and not depend on the external charger.

 

[ERD50]

Probably not in bios as you say, but my laptop when turned off is capable of displaying an orange light that turns to white when charged. Must be some charging circuit firmware in the laptop. I would imagine they would protect the laptop from overcharging and not depend on the external charger.

Yes, the external "charger" is (usually) just a 'dumb' power supply. For example, all the "chargers" I have for my laptops are just a two-conductor plug. No 'smarts' to know anything at all about the battery. Technically, they could transmit information over the power lead, or monitor the battery voltage at this point (if there was a direct connection) but I'm certain that's not done. You can use those power supplies as a stand-alone supply, that's all they are.

And I'm assuming that the charging circuit n a laptop does a "balanced" charge (monitors the series cells to keep the charge even), and that requires a connection to each series cell.

-ERD50