Agree we need to reopen without vulnerable/elderly at first?

[slingshot]

Shouldn't individuals be able to make their own choice based on the risk/reward profile they are comfortable with?

 

[PatrickA5]

Shouldn't individuals be able to make their own choice based on the risk/reward profile they are comfortable with?

Risk/Reward to whom? To that individual? Or, the person that individual comes in contact with?

 

[slingshot]

Risk/Reward to whom? To that individual? Or, the person that individual comes in contact with?

That individual, let's just say me, has to decide how to best protect myself from the virus.
I would expect that others have decided for themselves how much exposure they are comfortable with.
Certainly there will be thoughtless individuals spreading the virus. I do not intend to cross their paths without considerable PPE and lots of hand washing, etc.
There are others who may carry the virus unknowingly. My personal plan remains the same.
I'm aware that I could make an error that could cause me to become ill, but I don't think that citizens are incapable of making their own decisions.
I'm worried for the small business person who is not allowed to operate. I may not choose to patronize his business at this time but I think it should be each individual's own decision.
My thoughts were NOT the same when this started, but we know more about the virus now.

 

[Midpack]

Shouldn't individuals be able to make their own choice based on the risk/reward profile they are comfortable with?

Again, if vulnerable individuals choose to re enter the same as low risk personnel, what prevents overwhelming healthcare resources? That was the whole reason for stay in place - to protect the vulnerable, not the 80-90% who weren’t nearly as likely to require hospitalization, ICU or death. We can’t hold back 90% to protect the 10% vulnerable hoping for a vaccine (that may not come)...

 

[RobbieB]

I rather live like before and be happy and die young than live like this forever.

This sucks.

 

[Midpack]

I rather live like before and be happy and die young than live like this forever.

This sucks.

More and more people are getting increasingly tired of staying in place, self included. If the states that are reopening now seem to be OK after 2-3 weeks, it’ll put a lot of pressure on other states, right or wrong. I’m glad my state isn’t opening yet, but I’m (selfishly) glad other states are testing the water.

 

[rk911]

8% is also a false stat.

However, regarding protecting the vulnerable it seems that some people are okay with shutting down the economy indefinitely regardless of how many people are hurt. The evidence is growing that shows healthy people under a certain age have a very low risk of fatality, therefore a reasonable plan should be put in place.

Those who still feel threatened can isolate longer if they want.

agree completely. living day-to-day is itself a risk if getting out of bed in the morning. lots of bugs can kill ya and lots of other ways to die as well. if Dr. Doom is right it is my belief that will kill far more than this current virus.

 

[statsman]

More and more people are getting increasingly tired of staying in place, self included. If the states that are reopening now seem to be OK after 2-3 weeks, it’ll put a lot of pressure on other states, right or wrong. I’m glad my state isn’t opening yet, but I’m (selfishly) glad other states are testing the water.

It's not just being tired of staying in place. It's knowing that some parts of our previous lives are slipping away with each week in lockdown, and what we're going to open up to is not going to be much fun for quite some time. Some jobs are not going to return. A lot of them, I suspect.

With Gov. Abbott extending the lockdown on salons, among other hands-on businesses, to May 18 in Texas, I don't know how my hair stylist's shop survives. She was the only stylist in the shop because every young lady here wants their own shop after being trained. I figure she won't be alone if she closes down.

 

[GravitySucks]

I don’t disagree about the vaccine Midpack. Even if they develop one it will be fairly worthless like the flu vaccine.

Useless?
The flu vaccine has probably prevented over 10 pandemics in the last 100 years.

 

[harllee]

It's not just being tired of staying in place. It's knowing that some parts of our previous lives are slipping away with each week in lockdown, and what we're going to open up to is not going to be much fun for quite some time. Some jobs are not going to return. A lot of them, I suspect.

With Gov. Abbott extending the lockdown on salons, among other hands-on businesses, to May 18 in Texas, I don't know how my hair stylist's shop survives. She was the only stylist in the shop because every young lady here wants their own shop after being trained. I figure she won't be alone if she closes down.

Why don't you do something to help your hair stylist if you want her business to survive--a Go Fund Me campaign or prepaying for a year's worth of appointments or something? I am seeing a lot of that sort of thing in my community.

 

[harllee]

Why don't you do something to help your hair stylist if you want her business to survive--a Go Fund Me campaign or prepaying for a year's worth of appointments or something? I am seeing a lot of that sort of thing in my community.

One other thought--self employed people can now get unemployment up to $600 per week. Maybe you can help your stylist apply for unemployment if she has not done this.

 

[Ronstar]

I rather live like before and be happy and die young than live like this forever.

This sucks.

My life hasn't changed much - yet. Until I have a scheduled trip on the horizon, I'm almost living the same now as I was Pre-Covid. I'm just not eating out as much now as I used to. And I can't get a haircut. No big deal.

But if I can't make my trips in August - then it will suck.

 

[harllee]

I rather live like before and be happy and die young than live like this forever.

This sucks.

So this has been going on for about 6 weeks and you would rather die? Aren't you a little dramatic? My 88 year old mother who lived through the great depression, WWII and the polio pandemic says this is nothing compared to the times. What you need to do is find a way to help others and not dwell on yourself so much.

 

[gwraigty]

Without a vaccine for over a year or two, of course we need to re-open.
I do think the restriction will have to be placed on the NOT vulnerable such as only allow Vulnerable to grocery shop on Tues & Thursdays.
Until herd immunity is reached in a few years.

As someone else basically said, you could make a case that at least 40-50% of the U.S. population has at least one serious underlying health condition. Those include things like diabetes, obesity, asthma, heart disease, kidney disease.
And I have also read that nearly 80% of the U.S. population has some degree of metabolic disorder, which is basically a pre-diabetic condition. So, trying to define who is most vulnerable to this virus (and needs to be isolated) is going to be very difficult at best. And it wouldn't work anyway, as many of these vulnerable people need to go to work every day to make a living. Putting an arbitrary age (like 65 years or older) won't work either, as there are many folks older than that that are healthier than a lot of young people. I'm 65, and I have no underlying health conditions. I certainly don't want to be told that I have to stay home for the next several months!

Yes, maybe we can set aside some days of the week for people that consider themselves "vulnerable" to do their shopping. But beyond that, I don't see how we are going to isolate a segment of the population against their will.

How would these special shopping days for only the vulnerable work? Everyone has to show ID to prove they're 65+ to enter? Anyone younger with an underlying health condition has to bring a doctor's note?

Between senior/vulnerable/health care worker/first responder/employee only shopping hours in my area, I think there are enough times spanning most days of the week when people like me who don't fit any of those categories are not allowed to shop. I don't want to see this expanded to entire days when I'm not allowed to shop. Unless the vulnerable groups are similarly restricted from shopping on the non-vulnerable group days. I could work with that.

Besides, I don't think any governor is trying to make it illegal for vulnerable people to go out, for obvious reasons. They just recommend staying home as much as possible. Nothing about that has really changed. Except for everything else that's really changed.

On the bright side, with some people gradually going back to work, the grocery stores should become less crowded during the week anyway.

 

[gwraigty]

So this has been going on for about 6 weeks and you would rather die? Aren't you a little dramatic? My 88 year old mother who lived through the great depression, WWII and the polio pandemic says this is nothing compared to the times. What you need to do is find a way to help others and not dwell on yourself so much.

Wow. RobbieB is entitled to his feelings.

 

[statsman]

One hitch I see with opening up businesses now is what do parents going back to work do about their school-age children? Who takes care of them? I am not saying we shouldn't open up businesses. But dealing with school-age children when parents need to go back to work is going to be a big hurdle to overcome.

And what about this summer? A lot of these kids end up in summer camps and the like, and there is a good possibility most of these camps will not be operating this summer.

 

[gwraigty]

One hitch I see with opening up businesses now is what do parents going back to work do about their school-age children? Who takes care of them? I am not saying we shouldn't open up businesses. But dealing with school-age children when parents need to go back to work is going to be a big hurdle to overcome.

A reporter asks this question daily in my state press conference. The governor then goes on a long-winded explanation (which the audience has probably long since memorized) of why he closed down the schools and day cares in the first place (the kids will live through this, but they're carriers and can infect others) and since nothing has changed about that, the schools and day cares will remain closed indefinitely. He can not come up with anything reassuring or any recommendations of how people are supposed to return to work when they have kids who are too young to be left alone all day. He just repeats himself every single time the question is asked.

That's just one of the many reasons why reopening some businesses isn't going to go quite as smoothly as some may imagine.

 

[eytonxav]

One thing that crosses my mind, let's say you go to a dine in restaurant or even a movie theater, and someone sneezes loudly. Will there be a stampede out the door? It is terrible how this virus has affected our way of life, and I wonder how long it will take to return to a reasonable semblance of normal.

 

[Music Lover]

So this has been going on for about 6 weeks and you would rather die? Aren't you a little dramatic? My 88 year old mother who lived through the great depression, WWII and the polio pandemic says this is nothing compared to the times. What you need to do is find a way to help others and not dwell on yourself so much.

He didn't say that....he said he'd rather die than live like this forever. Forever is a bit longer than 6 weeks.

I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people don't want to be in lockdown for the rest of their lives.

 

[PatrickA5]

How would these special shopping days for only the vulnerable work? Everyone has to show ID to prove they're 65+ to enter? Anyone younger with an underlying health condition has to bring a doctor's note?

Between senior/vulnerable/health care worker/first responder/employee only shopping hours in my area, I think there are enough times spanning most days of the week when people like me who don't fit any of those categories are not allowed to shop. I don't want to see this expanded to entire days when I'm not allowed to shop. Unless the vulnerable groups are similarly restricted from shopping on the non-vulnerable group days. I could work with that.

Besides, I don't think any governor is trying to make it illegal for vulnerable people to go out, for obvious reasons. They just recommend staying home as much as possible. Nothing about that has really changed. Except for everything else that's really changed.

On the bright side, with some people gradually going back to work, the grocery stores should become less crowded during the week anyway.

In my city, Walmart has only one hour per week supposedly set up for elderly/vulnerable (7-8am, Tuesday). And even then, they don't enforce it. Totally worthless.

Let's just face it: trying to segregate the older/vulnerable from the "healthy" is just never going to work.

 

[Music Lover]

Let's just face it: trying to segregate the older/vulnerable from the "healthy" is just never going to work.

The only other option is to continue to shut down everything indefinitely and that will be a disaster. Healthy not at risk people should be allowed to go back to work and get on with their lives, and vulnerable people can continue to isolate or go out at their own risk.

 

[PatrickA5]

The only other option is to continue to shut down everything indefinitely and that will be a disaster. Healthy not at risk people should be allowed to go back to work and get on with their lives, and vulnerable people can continue to isolate or go out at their own risk.

I agree. The older people will just have to fend for themselves and hope they avoid the people that don't care (or think it's all a hoax).

 

[cathy63]

One hitch I see with opening up businesses now is what do parents going back to work do about their school-age children? Who takes care of them? I am not saying we shouldn't open up businesses. But dealing with school-age children when parents need to go back to work is going to be a big hurdle to overcome.

And what about this summer? A lot of these kids end up in summer camps and the like, and there is a good possibility most of these camps will not be operating this summer.

That's one of the reasons that CA Gov Newsom gave for opening childcare facilities up to non-essential workers' children in the next phase (they've been allowed to stay open for essential workers up to now). He also wants to start school in July this year. I'm not sure he can get every school district and the teachers' unions to go along with that idea, but he has 4 children at home, so it might be parental wishful thinking as much as anything.

 

[harllee]

NY Times article said that people over 65 account for 20% of consumer spending. If businesses reopen and don't make it safe for us geezers then this is going to be a big reduction of income to these businesses. When things in my area reopen I am going to give my business to stores, etc that take the safety of us geezers into account.

 

[timo2]

NY Times article said that people over 65 account for 20% of consumer spending. If businesses reopen and don't make it safe for us geezers then this is going to be a big reduction of income to these businesses. When things in my area reopen I am going to give my business to stores, etc that take the safety of us geezers into account.

+1
Don't expect us older people to contribute to the economy in the manner we used to. Of course we will find other ways to spend our money in the new economy. Maybe we will just spend on fixing up our stay at home location. No more cruises for me. I won't be renewing my season tickets for the local USL team. Crowded places that don't enforce distancing, forget it. If a store doesn't provide curbside pickup, I won't be shopping there.