Anyone Using CV19 Exposure Notifications?

[jazz4cash]

Apple pushed a software update yesterday and they’ve been trying to gradually introduce me to the “improved” features. One of them is CV Exposure Notifications. I think it tracks other phones within Bluetooth range that have the feature enabled. I assume one has to voluntarily enter their own status. I know similar forms of contact tracking were mandatory in some countries and credited with controlling the spread. I didn’t enable the feature and don’t plan to but I’m open minded about it.

[Bryan Barnfellow]

The Swiss government developed an app for the SARS-Covid-19 virus exposure notification and encouraged everyone to install it. It has not been as universally adopted as they had hoped, mainly due to data privacy worries.

I have gotten exposure notifications but I'm not sure how useful they are to me in terms of action on my part. The numbers mainly confirm that I am walking around in a bit of a viral soup (the little walking around that I do), as are most other people. The country has had numbers surge, as have countries elsewhere in Europe, and so has tightened restrictions and have made mask wearing mandatory in most situations.

-BB

[MRG]

Our state introduced an app. I have it downloaded, sounds OK from my security standpoint. I don't trust my phone much so YMMV.

[PaunchyPirate]

I have it enabled on my iPhone and Pennsylvania has an app that makes use of it. Daily, I enter my health status into the app unless I just forget to.

I believe science and technology can assist in helping us out of the mess we are in and I don't mind a little violation of my privacy to do so.

I also think this bit of science and technology will never be widely embraced in the US.

[RunningBum]

I've had the COVIDWISE app on my phone pretty much since when it was released. Not sure how widespread it's in use here. I haven't had any notifications.

[FIREd]

France has rolled out an app that does just that. I signed up for it, but I think that I'm unlikely to get an exposure notification. I would have to be within one meter (~3') of an infected person for at least 15 minutes to get notified. Since downloading the app, I've realized that no one actually spends 15+minutes in my personal space before I move or they do, especially in the current environment.

[Alan]

I downloaded the NHS app in September which is based on the Apple/Google system. Any notifications regarding exposure and advice on isolating is advisory. So far the thing I like most about it is that every cafe or restaurant has an NHS QR code at the entrance so I just point the phone and it registers my presence which saves the need to fill in a form with my contact details. If someone tests positive who was in the cafe the same time as myself, regardless of whether or not they have the app on their phone, the cafe can record the date and time of the incident and I will get an alert.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREd France has rolled out an app that does just that. I signed up for it, but I think that I'm unlikely to get an exposure notification. I would have to be within one meter (~3') of an infected person for at least 15 minutes to get notified. Since downloading the app, I've realized that no one actually spends 15+minutes in my personal space before I move or they do, especially in the current environment.

Same here. The cafes we go into have the tables well spread out so 15 minutes spent within a meter of anyone is very rare, same goes for supermarkets in terms of lengths of time close to anyone.

[EastWest Gal]

I have had the COVID alert system in PA on my phone virtually since its inception. Unfortunately, less than 500,000 in our state are using the app. I check in every day to report "no symptoms." Hopefully it stays that way.

The app doesn't track location, it tracks proximity. I'd rather protect my health and that of my family than worry about Big Brother company knowing where I am. I'm almost always home anyway. They can track me, for now. I'm boring.

[jazz4cash]

It seems like it can’t work without a high rate of voluntary compliance or mandated usage. We still have people that won’t wear a mask and I sure don’t trust Google when they say locations are not tracked but i don’t really care either.

[JoeWras]

I don't understand the 1 meter for 15 minutes rule. It has been clear for some time that transmission can occur with much looser contact

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeWras I don't understand the 1 meter for 15 minutes rule. It has been clear for some time that transmission can occur with much looser contact

For outdoor transmission I think that is very reasonable, and the app doesn't know if you have been indoors or out when you come into range with others carrying the app.

The app is just a tool to assist the Test and Trace teams. The rules in England once lockdown ended in July is that all venues must keep a log of all visitors. Restaurants, cafes, bars, gyms, barber shops, etc. This requires writing down your name and contact details or, since September, scanning the NHS QR code on entry. I always hold up my phone to the staff member showing that I have logged in with the app.

Suppose I tested positive for Covid. T&T will contact me and ask for the names of folks I've been in contact with and the places I've been to in the previous few days. If I have the app they will give me a unique code for me to enter into the app indicating that I have tested positive. I might tell them that I have been into 3 cafes and the gym over the past 5 days and tell them which ones. They will then contact all those venues to get the details of who was present on those occasions. Many of the patrons who had been there will have scanned their app so the venue itself has no record of them, otherwise they will provide the list of contact details that the customers l had written down, and T&T will then have to try and contact all those folks. Even if I fail to tell T&T about a venue the app is going to know as it holds the id's of all the places I checked into for 15 days.

All those customers who scanned the app on entering the venues I had been to will be notified via their app, plus any I had been within a meter of for at least 15 minutes and didn't know about. It doesn't matter if they had been within 1 meter or 20 meters, or how long they had been in the same room.

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan For outdoor transmission I think that is very reasonable, and the app doesn't know if you have been indoors or out when you come into range with others carrying the app.

Ah yes, that makes sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan The app is just a tool to assist the Test and Trace teams. The rules in England once lockdown ended in July is that all venues must keep a log of all visitors. Restaurants, cafes, bars, gyms, barber shops, etc. This requires writing down your name and contact details or, since September, scanning the NHS QR code on entry. I always hold up my phone to the staff member showing that I have logged in with the app.

That's where things break down in the USA. Contact details are intermittent and sparse. They are pretty much non-existent in Restaurants.

We go to the city pool and they take down our details for further contact tracing. However, there is no tie into the SlowCOVIDNC app, unless the app is smart enough to know you are there and contact the pool.

BTW, SlowCOVIDNC uses the 2 meter rule for 15 minutes total in a day. So it expands the circle a bit more. AFAIK, the NC app is essentially the same as the rest of the state apps. They are all just tweaks of a national system.

[RunningBum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeWras I don't understand the 1 meter for 15 minutes rule. It has been clear for some time that transmission can occur with much looser contact

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan For outdoor transmission I think that is very reasonable, and the app doesn't know if you have been indoors or out when you come into range with others carrying the app.

I'm with Joe on this. I'd rather the app assume the worst, that I was indoors. And I'd rather it cover for shorter duration. Remember, it's to tell you about a possible infection. If I was in close proximity to an infected person for 2 minutes, I want to be notified so I can get tested. I don't want it to figure that I might have been outside, so a few minutes next to someone infected probably isn't going to get me.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningBum I'm with Joe on this. I'd rather the app assume the worst, that I was indoors. And I'd rather it cover for shorter duration. Remember, it's to tell you about a possible infection. If I was in close proximity to an infected person for 2 minutes, I want to be notified so I can get tested. I don't want it to figure that I might have been outside, so a few minutes next to someone infected probably isn't going to get me.

I agree and would want the same, but the app is a tool to assist the T&T teams who are working on whole populations and if it is too sensitive then there may be a lot of false alarms, and when folks experience alarm overload they tend to miss the important ones.

[Go-NoGo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastWest Gal I have had the COVID alert system in PA on my phone virtually since its inception. Unfortunately, less than 500,000 in our state are using the app. I check in every day to report "no symptoms." Hopefully it stays that way. The app doesn't track location, it tracks proximity. I'd rather protect my health and that of my family than worry about Big Brother company knowing where I am. I'm almost always home anyway. They can track me, for now. I'm boring.

Same here, downloaded the app on day 1 and have not received any exposure notifications yet (Thankfully!).

Privacy concerns are overblown.. if the "state" wanted to track you there are FAR FAR easier and effective ways of doing it, for example the Phone in your pocket. They don't need no stinkin COVID app to do it.

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Go-NoGo Same here, downloaded the app on day 1 and have not received any exposure notifications yet (Thankfully!). Privacy concerns are overblown.. if the "state" wanted to track you there are FAR FAR easier and effective ways of doing it, for example the Phone in your pocket. They don't need no stinkin COVID app to do it.

You've got a good point. Have you heard about how the police are using aggregate phone data to track down suspects, known as geofence warrants?

I consider myself an independent thinker who can be flexible. I'm coming around to possibly participating in this COVID app, even though my initial posts on this were a bit inflammatory with regard to government tracking.

[RunningBum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan I agree and would want the same, but the app is a tool to assist the T&T teams who are working on whole populations and if it is too sensitive then there may be a lot of false alarms, and when folks experience alarm overload they tend to miss the important ones.

That's a good point. I was thinking of myself, who has more days where I don't have anyone within 20 feet of me than days that I do, but people working in retail or service industries might be asking each other "How many alarms today?" and laughing them off. Still, I think I'd like to now how many brief encounters I had in addition to the 15+ minute ones.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningBum That's a good point. I was thinking of myself, who has more days where I don't have anyone within 20 feet of me than days that I do, but people working in retail or service industries might be asking each other "How many alarms today?" and laughing them off. Still, I think I'd like to now how many brief encounters I had in addition to the 15+ minute ones.

With the app in England the alert will advise you to self isolate for 14 days, and that means not leaving the house so folks will soon tire of receiving such alarms. Unfortunately the app here does not give warnings that you have been “briefly” in contact with someone who has tested positive, and whether that contact was indoors or outdoors and then leave the decision to you on whether you think you should self isolate.

BTW the notifications are anonymous so if you don’t self isolate then there is no follow up, the system notifications rely on self discipline.

In work environments employers have to create work “bubbles” so that when 1 person tests positive then all workers in that bubble are sent home and told to self isolate. This has happened to a cousin of my wife. She works in a post office sorting depot and 2 people on her shift tested positive recently so she is home. No questions on whether she had been in close contact or not, the whole shift is sent home.

[aaronc879]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazz4cash It seems like it can’t work without a high rate of voluntary compliance or mandated usage. We still have people that won’t wear a mask and I sure don’t trust Google when they say locations are not tracked but i don’t really care either.

They can't mandate something like this unless they supply us with a phone. My cheap Tracfone has 8GB and has no room for extra Apps. I couldn't use this even if I wanted to. I have no issues with privacy concerns but i'm not going to buy a new phone just so I have room for this App.