Are you wiping down packages?

[Sunny]

I don't know that it helps any but I feel better doing it.

Actually that is a very, very good point. There is a psychological aspect to dealing with this mess, so very astute of you to acknowledge it makes you feel better. Keep doing it. Hopefully, we all find something that makes us feel a bit more in control.

I think I'll just keep washing my hands and wiping down the table after opening packages, but no harm quarantining that package when it arrives for a day or two either (or wiping it down).

 

[Walt34]

I just received a package from Amazon today. Items were made in China, of course. I did wash hands after opening the box and taking it out to the garage. But the stuff inside the box was wrapped in plastic and probably had been for at least a month so anything more seemed to be a bit on the paranoid side. I'm getting another two packages tomorrow, one from Amazon and one from Home Depot and I'll likely do the same.

 

[sengsational]

Experiences with Alcohol

This would probably be a good separate topic, but I wonder how many of us are experiencing "Spousal Prepper Asymmetry Syndrome". I personally am experiencing a high degree of SPAS, with a DW who rolls her eyes at my social distancing, use of rubber gloves when shopping, etc.

A slight bit of SPAS in our household; DW humors me while I explain my protocol, and says she's willing to do it if I take over putting away the groceries (which is normally her job).

We did a "dry run" yesterday. "Dry" because we presumed that since there was no community spread reported in our area, we could reasonably assume that there was no virus on the goods from the grocery store. Obviously the reporting is at least 5 days behind, but even if I advance the clock by a week, still very slim chances, given the stuff at the store probably hadn't been sitting there long, that packaging contains virus. Anyway...

What I learned was:

• Fresh produce is hard
  • Maybe some can be quarantined, but probably not.
  • You don't want to douse most of them with anything harsh
  • I wasn't prepared with a spray bottle of edible vegetable wash

• Don't spray 91% isopropyl alcohol
  • My airways became irritated (sprayed large corn chip bags)
  • The printing on plastic bags comes off and makes a mess
  • I will NOT be doing this again!
  • My replacement spray solution has not been defined yet.

• Outer packaging removal worked great with non-spreading gloves (cotton gloves dampened by alcohol worn over blue gloves to prevent transferring outer package virus to inner package)
  • Cardboard box separated from inner bag with dampened gloves worked (tossed cardboard out and inner bag to 'safe area')
  • Similarly outer shrink plastic separated from canned goods worked
  • Plastic bagged produce worked, but I realized I'd need a known clean container handy. Presumes the produce itself didn't have virus (from the picking and packing process, which I presume was temporally distant enough for safety).

• Quarantine is the easiest
  • A shelf in the garage holds things not needed right away
  • Sticky note pad and marker at the ready so we know how long something has been sitting out there.

The result of the dry run was that we learned a lot. Even though I thought quite a bit about this before doing it, when the rubber hit the road, there was a lot of discussion about different ways to manage this process in the easiest and safest way. Still a work in process.

 

[sengsational]

I too use the car trunk and the garage as decontamination zones. I use gloves and I've been mixing 70% isopropyl alcohol and 3% hydrogen peroxide (1 cup to 1 tablespoon) in a spray bottle for packaged goods. I don't know that it helps any but I feel better doing it.

From what I've read (academic papers), 70+% isopropyl alcohol and a minute or two of contact time or 1% hydrogen peroxide, again for a minute or two of contact time is sufficient. It sounds like you're diluting too much? If you, or anyone has a spray formula that's got hard documentation as effective for deactivating the virus on surfaces, that would be good to know. I will certainly switch away from spraying the isopropyl alcohol due to the airway irritation it caused me.

 

[Kwirk]

No proof but soapy water in a spray bottle may work just as well for many things. Easy to rinse off.

I derived my formulation from a widely publicized recipe for hand sanitizer but leaving out the glycerin. My calculation is that the reduction is to ~65%, more than many hand sanitizers. 70%x16/17. I do the spraying in an open area so I wasn’t more bothered than when using hand sanitizer.

I used the mix on bananas, lemons, limes. The package of blueberries was a problem because of ventilation openings so we just wiped down the outside of the package with a Clorox wipe.

 

[big-papa]

We quarantine the packages for a couple of days.

From a recent meme seen on facebook: "It can only be called quarantine if it's from the Quarantine region of France. Otherwise it's just Sparkling Isolation"

 

[tmm99]

Yes, with Lysol wipes after opening the packages wearing gloves

 

[sengsational]

WHO Formulations of "Handrub"

This may have been posted elsewhere, but I came across it, and it was a start to answering some questions I had about how to mix sanitizer effective against the virus. I have alcohol and peroxide on hand, but no glycerol. But I want to spray it anyway. Here's the formulations in the PDF, to save you from having to download and comb through it:

Formulation:

• Isopropyl alcohol 75% (v/v) - or - Ethanol 80% (v/v)
• Glycerol 1.45% (v/v)
• Hydrogen peroxide 0.125% (v/v)

To produce final concentrations of isopropyl alcohol 75% v/v, glycerol 1.45% v/v, hydrogen peroxide 0.125% v/v:
Pour into a 1000 ml graduated flask:

1. isopropyl alcohol (with a purity of 99.8%), 751.5 ml
2. H2O2 3%, 41.7 ml
3. glycerol 98%, 14.5 ml

Top up the flask to 1000 ml with distilled water or water that has been boiled and cooled; shake the flask gently to mix the content.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK144054/
https://www.who.int/gpsc/5may/Guide_to_Local_Production.pdf

Brewers

There are a bunch of brewers on this board, so I thought I'd share something I found on the possible ineffectiveness of StarSan (which seems to be most like disinfectant III in the paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12540190) against the hepatitis virus. Great for bacteria, but not so great on viruses, at least hepatitis. But there is disagreement because all viruses are not the same. My conclusion was if you have something "known good", like bleach, just use that; you really don't need "no rinse sanitation" in most cases, even on produce.

As more of a general guide and starting place, this CDC page might also be helpful.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/cleaning-disinfection.html


Sorry if these links were posted/discussed earlier.

 

[sengsational]

I changed this formula to use 91% isopropyl instead of 99.8% and to use water instead of glycerol. It came to 824ml of 91% isopropyl, still 42ml H2O2, and top up with 134ml pure water.

Unfortunately, I still think spraying this is going to continue to be a problem due to the irritation it causes in the breathing passages. It's obviously good for a handrub, but spraying large surface areas gets too much alcohol vapor in the air.

To produce final concentrations of isopropyl alcohol 75% v/v, glycerol 1.45% v/v, hydrogen peroxide 0.125% v/v:
Pour into a 1000 ml graduated flask:

1. isopropyl alcohol (with a purity of 99.8%), 751.5 ml
2. H2O2 3%, 41.7 ml
3. glycerol 98%, 14.5 ml

Top up the flask to 1000 ml with distilled water or water that has been boiled and cooled; shake the flask gently to mix the content.

 

[folivier]

I'm putting all packages and mail in quarantine for 3 days. Just putting it in the garage.

 

[sengsational]

Quoted from another thread, but goes here:

DD sent me the link for this video on modified hospital sterilization techniques that can be used for groceries. It’s thorough and concise IMO. A nurse friend of her’s sent it to her.

Here's the same video, but starting at a point for those of us that are interested in just watching this MD exercise the techniques he thinks are good, and less talking/convincing.

I turns out his technique is similar to what I've been doing (it was before community spread in my geography, so I considered my one experience only practice).

Some differences is that I used what I called "wet glove" technique, where I put cotton gloves over blue gloves and kept the gloves saturated with disinfectant as I operated. The alternative this video shows is keeping a paper towel saturated and keep wiping the hands.

Here's my earlier post (SPAS is "Spousal Prepper Asymmetry Syndrome") :

A slight bit of SPAS in our household; DW humors me while I explain my protocol, and says she's willing to do it if I take over putting away the groceries (which is normally her job).

We did a "dry run" yesterday. "Dry" because we presumed that since there was no community spread reported in our area, we could reasonably assume that there was no virus on the goods from the grocery store. Obviously the reporting is at least 5 days behind, but even if I advance the clock by a week, still very slim chances, given the stuff at the store probably hadn't been sitting there long, that packaging contains virus. Anyway...

What I learned was:

• Fresh produce is hard
  • Maybe some can be quarantined, but probably not.
  • You don't want to douse most of them with anything harsh
  • I wasn't prepared with a spray bottle of edible vegetable wash

• Don't spray 91% isopropyl alcohol
  • My airways became irritated (sprayed large corn chip bags)
  • The printing on plastic bags comes off and makes a mess
  • I will NOT be doing this again!
  • My replacement spray solution has not been defined yet.

• Outer packaging removal worked great with non-spreading gloves (cotton gloves dampened by alcohol worn over blue gloves to prevent transferring outer package virus to inner package)
  • Cardboard box separated from inner bag with dampened gloves worked (tossed cardboard out and inner bag to 'safe area')
  • Similarly outer shrink plastic separated from canned goods worked
  • Plastic bagged produce worked, but I realized I'd need a known clean container handy. Presumes the produce itself didn't have virus (from the picking and packing process, which I presume was temporally distant enough for safety).

• Quarantine is the easiest
  • A shelf in the garage holds things not needed right away
  • Sticky note pad and marker at the ready so we know how long something has been sitting out there.

The result of the dry run was that we learned a lot. Even though I thought quite a bit about this before doing it, when the rubber hit the road, there was a lot of discussion about different ways to manage this process in the easiest and safest way. Still a work in process.

After I produced the post above, I've enhanced my protocol to include the preparation of a disinfecting bath for fruits and veggies. The video used a sink with soapy water. I might go with an appropriate strength (mild) bleach solution or soapy water. Both need rinsing, of course.

I've got a small spray bottle with 3% hydrogen peroxide (they say 1% is good enough with 30 seconds contact time, but I've got several bottles of peroxide and not that many surfaces because "quarantine is easiest" (only the stuff I need "now" get treated). I put some H2O2 into the spray bottle then with the main container, I squeeze out the air and seal it (air causes H2O2 to loose it's effectiveness over time). Anyway, things that need to be or can be sprayed get treated with peroxide, not alcohol (due to the irritating fumes). One could also use an appropriate concentration of bleach solution, but those must be mixed for the day and thrown out due to quickly losing their ability to destroy the nasty organic assembly we're all fighting.

Stay safe!

 

[euro]

We quarantine the packages for a couple of days.

Same here - we leave them sit on the porch for a day or two before we crack them open.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

We have all our recent packages piling up in our entryway for now. When we get hungry enough I suppose we will open them as they are mostly pantry items from Walmart and Amazon Pantry. We've had to put away the Instacart and local supermarket pick up orders as they had perishables and frozen food.

 

[Clone]

Our son sent us a link to a video where the person showed how they process bags of groceries. I used some of those techniques with the recent lot of groceries that were picked up.

I used a clorox wipe to handle the bags, and poured out the contents onto the deck of the trailer in the garage. Disposed of the bags. Then wiped down the packaging for the frozen goods (cooked sausage patties, no big deal if they thaw). Those will stay on the trailer in the garage for a day. Wiped down the outside box on the cream cheese, then opened it and poured out the 2 inside boxes onto a 'clean' area. They will stay there for a couple days. Cartons of soda were stacked into the garage and will remain untouched for a week. Wiped down the skinned vegetables, and they will stay on the trailer for a few days. Wiped off the canned goods, and they will likewise stay on the trailer for a few days. After things are processed, I wash up with plenty of hot water and soap. My skin is falling apart...

Mostly- open up and discard packaging, wipe down and isolate for several days. The fresh vegetables that we have go through the crock pot for multiple hours. We will probably be hungry for fresh salad after a bit, but we are trying to stick with canned or frozen that has been in our possession for a long time. We have plenty of meat that was packaged at the plant, and will be thoroughly cooked.

 

[TriumphTR3fan]

I went to Costco in Salem, Oregon this morning. I was surprised at the number of employees that were assigned to in store sanitation. One employee was cleaning every handle in the freezer section & was very thorough. Employees were wiping down each self checkout station after each use. The employees assigned to review receipts at the exit wouldn’t touch the receipt. They had me put it on a clipboard & it was lined through without checking the cart. Their organization bordered on the military.
We still wiped each item at home before we put it in the house. Even the oranges were disinfected.

 

[timo2]

We put everything coming in from the outside into the garage for a quarantine area. If we don't need it right away, it will just sit out there until we need it unboxed (until summer anyway). Including the mail. and whatever shoes we wore out and about.

 

[REWahoo]

We put everything coming in from the outside into the garage for a quarantine area. If we don't need it right away, it will just sit out there until we need it unboxed (until summer anyway). Including the mail. and whatever shoes we wore out and about.

We do something similar.

We have a converted screened porch (now a game room) connecting the garage to the house. We place all mail and non-perishable groceries on a table in the game room for thee days before bringing into the house. If we need an item sooner, we wipe it down.

 

[TrvlBug]

I'm putting all packages and mail in quarantine for 3 days. Just putting it in the garage.

This is what I do along with all non-perishables and perishables not needing refrigeration. Newspaper gets quarantined for 1 day.

 

[sengsational]

Managing the Mail

I don't think the snail mail is a likely vector for the virus to enter my body (I could just open the mail, then wash my hands), but I set-up a system to let it age 3 days. Very simple, and offers piece of mind.

https://youtu.be/qmkOJFjXW8U

 

[dixonge]

we put everything in the sink and spray it down w/ a bleach solution, let it sit for a bit, then rinse off and dry.

 

[gwraigty]

No.

 

[dd564]

No, we're not.

Packages travel via semi to grocery stores for a period of a few days. Then a single store worker throws boxes on the shelves and opens them up or toss bags onto the shelves. Some do it with gloves, other with washed hands.

People go to the store. There could be a chance someone breathes heavily or sneeze on the bag I might grab. I sometimes grab the second or third bag of something typically anyway.

When I get home I don't inhale any packaging and the packaging is usually dry when purchased so it transmitting to my hands, then in to my respiratory system is really unlikely.

If I got a dose, it would probably be so small my body would have ample time to build up and defeat the virus vs contacting it directly.

My wife is a nurse so there is far better chance I get it from her and contact she has with patients then her bringing it home.

 

[kcowan]

Same here - we leave them sit on the porch for a day or two before we crack them open.

We had a couple of deliveries, one from Costco, a 55" Qled TV in cardboard which I let sit for 24 hours, and a dresser from Walmart that was cardboard but totally wrapped in plastic tape. I let that one age for 3 days.

 

[pacergal]

We have clean and dirty space in the kitchen when we bring home groceries.We wash hour hands before bringing things in and placing the bags on the dirty area. then I re wash my hands and I wipe everything packaged with a towel dipped bleach solution before setting it in the clean area.
Fruits and veggies with skin are washed in soap and water and rinsed thoroughly. Only buying bagged lettuce/salad stuff, and that gets bleach wiped.
Anything delivered in boxes from Amazon, etc gets the same treatment, but outside boxes are left in the garage and only contents brought inside.
Hands are getting chapped from so much washing, but using lotion helps!
After everything is dry and put away, I sanitize both counters and rewash my hands.

 

[Markola]

Yes. DW has a compromised immune system so we are doing everything we can think of. We also leave our shoes outside and spray the bottoms with bleach.