Corona Virus, Covid and the future

[harllee]

Just think, if we had this kind of vaccine hesitancy for the polio and smallpox vaccines years ago we would have so many more dead from these diseases and the diseases never would have been eradicated. My mother says she especially remembers the first polio vaccine. Everyone in our town lined up to get it, there was no discussion, no hesitancy at all.

 

[GreenEggs]

Until the vaccination becomes mandatory it seems we're facing a losing battle.

 

[Chuckanut]

Just think, if we had this kind of vaccine hesitancy for the polio and smallpox vaccines years ago we would have so many more dead from these diseases and the diseases never would have been eradicated. My mother says she especially remembers the first polio vaccine. Everyone in our town lined up to get it, there was no discussion, no hesitancy at all.

I remember my father taking me for the 2nd polio vaccine, the one we took orally using a sugar cube. Nobody questioned it. In fact everybody was happy to get the cube.

 

[travelover]

The moose head on the table is political and we can't talk about that. It is sad that it has come down to this. Real people will die and families will suffer for generations.

 

[Popeye]

In my eyes it shows a horrible failure in leadership at many levels and in many organizations and entities. Sure overcoming this hesitancy is tough but you don’t become a leader or claim to be a leader just to do the easy stuff. Anyone can do the easy stuff.

 

[retire-early]

In my eyes it shows a horrible failure in leadership at many levels and in many organizations and entities. Sure overcoming this hesitancy is tough but you don’t become a leader or claim to be a leader just to do the easy stuff. Anyone can do the easy stuff.

It is not just tough. It is nearly impossible.
When you have people who nearly died still not wanting to be vaccinated, I am not sure what else will get them to change their minds.

 

[SmallCityDave]

The moose head on the table is political and we can't talk about that. It is sad that it has come down to this. Real people will die and families will suffer for generations.

To say it's political is an understatement, we can talk we just can't voice different opinions.

 

[Andre1969]

I know one guy who refuses to get the vaccine because he says an uncle of his got it, and "it killed him". Now, this uncle was in his 70's, and who knows what actually got him. Although, who knows? I'm sure there are some people who do die, as a result of complications from the vaccine.

Regardless, I just got my first shot, of Moderna, today. One of my friends online asked me why I took so long. I just didn't answer him because it sounded like a guilt trip was coming. I just didn't want to get into it with him, over demographics. He's in NYC, which was kind of a ground zero, whereas I'm out in the sticks relatively speaking, so people just don't take it as seriously. Plus, I'm working from home, and really don't get out much. I have a house mate, who's vaccinated, and he does most of the grocery shopping.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I remember my father taking me for the 2nd polio vaccine, the one we took orally using a sugar cube. Nobody questioned it. In fact everybody was happy to get the cube.

Well, there was no Facebook then...so...

And just another indication that almost EVERYTHING is politicized these day.

 

[MichaelB]

Getting back on topic ...

Here’s an informative thread by Dr. Tom Friedan from the Twitter thread reader. He’s been quoted here before and has the expertise we need

I’m hearing from vaccinated people who are frightened about breakthrough cases, the Delta variant, and new waves of Covid. But it’s not vaccinated people who should be most concerned. Here’s what I expect to happen over the coming weeks.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1417877949886443521.html

 

[CardsFan]

The moose head on the table is political and we can't talk about that. It is sad that it has come down to this. Real people will die and families will suffer for generations.

Well, apparently, you just did.

My experiences must differ greatly from yours. The few people I know that are "waiting" are younger (with kids) and non-political. I think there are many folks in the 20-40yo group that have reservations about a vaccine produced and tested so quickly, since the average time for approval is 12 years. https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...ge time from FDA,to market exceeds $1 billion.

One friend's daughter voiced concerns about long term effects, to which he answered "I am almost 70, I am not too worried about something that could happen in 20 years."

FWIW, we are both fully vaccinated, as well as everyone in our extended family.

 

[braumeister]

I think there are many folks in the 20-40yo group that have reservations about a vaccine produced and tested so quickly, since the average time for approval is 12 years.

FWIW, Dr. Jonas Salk started work developing a polio vaccine in 1947 and announced success in 1953. Clinical trials began in 1954, and it was approved for general use in 1955.

When Dr. Jonas Salk’s vaccine debuted ... in 1954, the only fear most parents felt was that it wouldn’t become widely available fast enough to save their kids.

Children ... took part in the first “field test” of the new vaccine, although Salk had already tried it on volunteers — starting with himself, his wife, and their children.... By June, nearly two million schoolchildren in 44 states had been inoculated, and a year later the vaccine was officially licensed.

So things have changed a bit. I remember getting that vaccine in 1954 or 55, and then the Sabin oral vaccine later.

But I had so many more during my military career that they all seemed utterly routine and none of them ever caused a problem for anyone I knew.

 

[brett]

DW told me today that we may be skipping her nephews wedding.

Several other of her relatives who are firmly in the conspiracy theory, no such thing as covid, anti vax social conservative camp will be attending.

They are the huggy kissy sort and I am certain that they would die rather than get the jab. And who knows, they may well succumb to their own stupidity by the time the wedding rolls around.

DW is an outlier. Worked in the health care field and believes in the science. She wants no part of the huggy kissy no vax business etc.

So she is telling me that we will probably cancel, change the tickets, and do something safe on our own. Good call on her part. I am thrilled.....was not looking forward to it at all.

 

[GreenEggs]

If Covid-19 wasn't such a serious threat I'd find the lame excuses people use against getting vaccinated humorous. The word "Pandemic" should be enough to get 90% of the sane population vaccinated, which is probably about the results we've had.

 

[retire-early]

5-6 weeks

Even if everyone who isn't vaccinated that can be vaccinated suddenly decided today to get vaccinated, they won't be "fully" protected for another 5-6 weeks given that you have to wait 3 - 4 weeks between the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines and then 2 weeks after the 2nd dose.
That would take us into Labor Day weekend!

August is going to be ugly.
I have my colonoscopy in 3 weeks.
It cannot come soon enough.

Sigh!

 

[audreyh1]

FWIW, Dr. Jonas Salk started work developing a polio vaccine in 1947 and announced success in 1953. Clinical trials began in 1954, and it was approved for general use in 1955.


So things have changed a bit. I remember getting that vaccine in 1954 or 55, and then the Sabin oral vaccine later.

But I had so many more during my military career that they all seemed utterly routine and none of them ever caused a problem for anyone I knew.

So they only had clinical trials for a year before approving it for general use?

It doesn't really matter that it took 6 years to develop. How long to develop doesn't matter. How long clinical trials are run can matter.

Sounds like they were in a hurry with that one too. No wonder! Polio was dreadful.

 

[audreyh1]

So she is telling me that we will probably cancel, change the tickets, and do something safe on our own. Good call on her part. I am thrilled.....was not looking forward to it at all.

So good for her and both of you!

 

[braumeister]

Sounds like they were in a hurry with that one too. No wonder! Polio was dreadful.

Even in my small neighborhood, there was a kid on the next street who was in an iron lung. Yes, everyone was pretty scared of it.

 

[Popeye]

If Covid-19 wasn't such a serious threat I'd find the lame excuses people use against getting vaccinated humorous. The word "Pandemic" should be enough to get 90% of the sane population vaccinated, which is probably about the results we've had.

Our leaders need to determine which reasons people truly believe and which ones they are pulling out of their butts. Then address each one in turn with simple logical honest explanation that refutes it. And the message needs to be unified across multiple platforms. And not used either overtly or subtly to perceived political advantage.

It reminds me a little of Mega Corp days. I would dread when the big wheels would swoop in every couple of years and have round tables with employees. Not because I feared they would say anything bad about me but because I knew what was coming. They’d get in a room and feel they had to come up with some new idea, no matter how ridiculous. Senior management didn’t know any better so we’d end up with a shopping list of goofy tasks to run down. So glad that’s over with!

 

[GreenEggs]

The message has always been very clear from US health officials about the importance of getting the highest percentage of the eligible population vaccinated. It's always been about reducing the potential number of Covid-19 victims & carriers to the lowest possible number.

As they say, "If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem." Covid-19 is proving that like nothing we've seen.

 

[travelover]

Well, apparently, you just did.

My experiences must differ greatly from yours. .........

It is a big country with very diverse populations and I find that trying to understand it just from one's personal experiences can be quite frustrating.

 

[jj]

Getting back on topic ...

Here’s an informative thread by Dr. Tom Friedan from the Twitter thread reader. He’s been quoted here before and has the expertise we need

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1417877949886443521.html

Thank you MichaelB

A very good summary - but so many 'unknowns' still to reveal themselves in the next few weeks:

- exactly how well will the vaccines protect?

- how many new variants will emerge?

- will those new variants evade the vaccine and be more deadly?

 

[Popeye]

The message has always been very clear from US health officials about the importance of getting the highest percentage of the eligible population vaccinated. It's always been about reducing the potential number of Covid-19 victims & carriers to the lowest possible number.

As they say, "If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem." Covid-19 is proving that like nothing we've seen.

We’ll have to agree to disagree about the clarity and consistency of the messages. What you have stated is what you have rightly concluded from the information coming at you. Put that to the side. If the message stalls out around the 55% mark, then you need a new message. At some point the results have to be seen as unacceptable. You need to address the concerns head on where you can.

Look at the whole emergency use authorization designation. If I was King of the World, I’d have heads of FDA, CDC, NIH, and any other alphabet soup bureaucracies locked in a room. I tell them no one leaves until they delineate every reason that a full approval can’t be given immediately. Once they list the reasons, I tell them I need a plan with a timeline that solves every issue in a timely manner and then we get updates every single day.