Coronavirus - Travel impacts II

[Chuckanut]

Um...I am not a lawyer, but I read up on legal issues quite a bit, and I am pretty sure you are not allowed to make retroactive, unilateral changes to a contract, like retroactively changing your T&C. They would need to offer to release you from the contract, which would mean a full refund, or get your consent to the new contract. .

Retroactive changes seem weird to me. After all why couldn’t Acme Widgets retroactively change their order agreement with me to raise the price of items I already
bought. Or suddenly say that I agree to pay them $50 a month starting June of 2018 for the privilege of remaining on their email list? Where does it end?

Basically it’s changing the rules of the game after its played. Making Ex Post Facto laws is forbidden to our government for a very good reason. Who do these companies think they are, George the Third?

 

[sengsational]

Getting ready for my first post-pandemic travel ("camping", in a cabin with private facilities). First time travel for the others in our group of 5 couples. 3 have camping trailers and 2 have rented cabins. We plan to share the food that's served steaming hot, BYO serving tongs/utensils. Also, the plan is to sit around a fire most of the time, so everyone's exhales should pretty much go straight up.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

Retroactive changes seem weird to me. After all why couldn’t Acme Widgets retroactively change their order agreement with me to raise the price of items I already
bought. Or suddenly say that I agree to pay them $50 a month starting June of 2018 for the privilege of remaining on their email list? Where does it end?

Basically it’s changing the rules of the game after its played. Making Ex Post Facto laws is forbidden to our government for a very good reason. Who do these companies think they are, George the Third?

They think, and know, that they are desperately short of money. They will do anything to preserve cash unless it will actually land the execs in prison, and maybe even that.
Some people will let them get away with it, and that's free money. The ones who fight will eventually get their money but maybe by then the companies will have enough cash or credit to handle the payouts.

But you already knew that...

 

[athena53]

IIRC, OAT got a ton of bad reviews based on their cancellation/refund policy this year. It was already pretty strict, but then they decided to make it even stricter, and then make the new rules retroactive.

It has been a good company, and we had a wonderful trip with them last year in Ireland, but apparently their profit margin was small and they were hit much harder by COVID-19 than they ever imagined.

A recent letter from them offers a transfer to any other departure date with no fee, up to 24 hours before your departure, for trips reserved by 9/30/20 for 2021 and 2022 reservations. I think they're trying. Still waiting on news of my refund but this motivates me to think about something for next summer. Maybe!

 

[sweetana3]

We had four trips this year. Just got our refund for the cancelled United flight to Italy (fastest refund), got the refund for the cruise (60+ days), and transferred our deposits on Road Scholar trips to a new trip in the US next year. Learned a good lesson to not pay for things in full to get discounts. Stuff happens. But we only lost a tiny bit and it could have been a disaster. Thinking we may have completed all the foreign trips we are ever going to take.

 

[athena53]

I just got a letter from Overseas Adventure Travel- I'm getting a credit of $5,800 (a bit more than I expected) plus an additional $500 "just because", all valid through 2022. I know that their domiciliary state requires cash refunds and I could insist, and that I'm gambling that they'll still be around, but I'm taking it. I really like the way they do business overall and I'm looking forward to more trips with them. They cannot have gotten full refunds from all the money they advanced on the part of the trip I didn't take- Latam Airlines is in bankruptcy and I suspect that other businesses they paid in advance have closed their doors or aren't issuing refunds. Tough times.

 

[Sunset]

I disputed Princess cruise charge approx $4,500 as they didn't give me a refund within 10 days as I was told I would get.

That was my reason: didn't get the refund.

The Credit card company has given me the money, temporarily. That took about 2 weeks to happen. So if the cruise line cannot prove they refunded me, or that they don't have to refund me, then I get to keep the money.
The seller (cruise line) has 60 days to object.

Actually they owe me more for the trip, but the rest was paid long ago, so that was the best I could do, it is now approaching 90 days I'm waiting for the 10 day refund of the full amount.

I'm past the 90 days after cancelling my Costco Travel trip with Princess.
Still no refund...
I phoned Costco - it's an hour long wait on the phone. Guess I'm not the only one with Costco Travel problems

 

[braumeister]

I'm past the 90 days after cancelling my Costco Travel trip with Princess.
Still no refund...

You're not alone. Holland America canceled on me in April and said they would need up to 90 days to process my refund. Everything I've found online confirms that, so I have nearly another month to wait. I could have had a quick credit with a bonus but I didn't want to trust them that far.

 

[fh2000]

EU banned visits from Americans on 6/30. Norwegian Air texted me right away that my flights to/from Paris in September are now cancelled. I booked the flights thru Flyfar, a Canadian booking company.

I tried to call them 2 days in a row and their answering message was always saying your hold time is 7 hour 30 minutes! After 2 hours on hold, I gave up.

I then called Chase credit card department to dispute the charge. I wasn't sure if they will do that for me since the charge was made more than 6 months ago, but they promptly refunded my charge. I have now 3 trips canceled on me, and got all the refunds. I am looking forward to the day when we can resume traveling.

 

[JoeWras]

Chicago requiring quarantine for travelers from many states.

My sister wanted us to come this summer. DW and I really don't want to in order to avoid risk during travel. This will give me an excuse I can use when I speak with my sister.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

^^^
I'm curious to see how they will track the people and enforce the rule.

O'Hare Airport is within the Chicago city limits, but large numbers of arriving passengers go out to the suburbs or downstate. Is this supposed to apply to them?

I suspect that the primary benefit of this rule will be to discourage people from high-covid states from coming to Illinois at all. Right now, not a bad idea.

 

[Sunset]

^^^
I'm curious to see how they will track the people and enforce the rule.

O'Hare Airport is within the Chicago city limits, but large numbers of arriving passengers go out to the suburbs or downstate. Is this supposed to apply to them?

I suspect that the primary benefit of this rule will be to discourage people from high-covid states from coming to Illinois at all. Right now, not a bad idea.

They said in effect it's based on the honor system. Much like the Chicago gun ban.

 

[JoeWras]

I suspect that the primary benefit of this rule will be to discourage people from high-covid states from coming to Illinois at all. Right now, not a bad idea.

Correct. And it is working. We're not going.

 

[ivinsfan]

^^^
I'm curious to see how they will track the people and enforce the rule.

O'Hare Airport is within the Chicago city limits, but large numbers of arriving passengers go out to the suburbs or downstate. Is this supposed to apply to them?

I suspect that the primary benefit of this rule will be to discourage people from high-covid states from coming to Illinois at all. Right now, not a bad idea.

It's a political sound bite and nothing more, like so much of what we see/hear lately.

 

[Sunset]

.....

I suspect that the primary benefit of this rule will be to discourage people from high-covid states from coming to Illinois at all. Right now, not a bad idea.

It also applies to IL folks who travel to one of those States, and then return.

 

[braumeister]

Just received the remaining refund due from the Alaska trip we had scheduled for August. It was cancelled in April, and the travel agency refunded everything under their control immediately, but they said the part billed to Holland America would take "up to 90 days" to be refunded.

Well, it just showed up, in only 77 days so I guess that's a plus. It worked out to be a 100% refund so I have nothing to complain about.

 

[camfused]

Yeah I just got the refunds from Delta and Air France for my trip that was cancelled in March. And, only because I called and complained. I guess they want to earn as much interest on my money before they have to finally give it back.

 

[tmm99]

I wish I had a reservation with an airline other than Air Canada. No refunds; just credits.

 

[Nemo2]

I wish I had a reservation with an airline other than Air Canada. No refunds; just credits.

Air Canada - "We're Not Happy Until You're Not Happy".

 

[cathy63]

I wish I had a reservation with an airline other than Air Canada. No refunds; just credits.

Were your flights to/from the U.S? If so, you can file a complaint with the Dept of Transportation. I've read that Air Canada is denying refunds, which is apparently allowed in Canada, but is a violation in the U.S. and they have to follow U.S. regulations for flights that land or take off here. They don't seem to care right now, but if enough complaints stack up at the DoT they'll be facing fines and other penalties, and that might shake loose some refunds for passengers with U.S. destinations.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Were your flights to/from the U.S? If so, you can file a complaint with the Dept of Transportation. I've read that Air Canada is denying refunds, which is apparently allowed in Canada, but is a violation in the U.S. and they have to follow U.S. regulations for flights that land or take off here. They don't seem to care right now, but if enough complaints stack up at the DoT they'll be facing fines and other penalties, and that might shake loose some refunds for passengers with U.S. destinations.

Well, that's if tmm99's flight was cancelled. If they just decided not to go (and rightly so) because of the health risk or other factors, I don't believe the airline is legally required to give you a refund.

But tmm99, if your flight was cancelled, call and insist on a refund, and if they won't give you one, call your credit card issuer and tell them that the airline cancelled your flight but illegally refused you a refund. Even if your bank has a 60 or 90 day chargeback limit, many banks will waive that if you were only recently denied the service you paid for months ago.

I'm in a weird situation with a nonrefundable hotel room in London. My flight was cancelled, and there's still a travel advisory, but the hotel is still open and travel is not technically banned, so they're going to keep my money and I can go suck rocks. I may try a chargeback because the UK is requiring everyone who travels to the UK to quarantine in one place for 14 days before traveling anywhere else, so I couldn't actually stay at that hotel for one night (it was supposed to be the last night of our trip anyway, a hotel airport for an early flight the next day).

 

[explanade]

Well, that's if tmm99's flight was cancelled. If they just decided not to go (and rightly so) because of the health risk or other factors, I don't believe the airline is legally required to give you a refund.

But tmm99, if your flight was cancelled, call and insist on a refund, and if they won't give you one, call your credit card issuer and tell them that the airline cancelled your flight but illegally refused you a refund. Even if your bank has a 60 or 90 day chargeback limit, many banks will waive that if you were only recently denied the service you paid for months ago.

I'm in a weird situation with a nonrefundable hotel room in London. My flight was cancelled, and there's still a travel advisory, but the hotel is still open and travel is not technically banned, so they're going to keep my money and I can go suck rocks. I may try a chargeback because the UK is requiring everyone who travels to the UK to quarantine in one place for 14 days before traveling anywhere else, so I couldn't actually stay at that hotel for one night (it was supposed to be the last night of our trip anyway, a hotel airport for an early flight the next day).

Did you ask for a credit?

I've gotten a bunch of credits, hope to use most of them some day but I'm also resigned to the possibility that I won't be able to.

When I booked many of these places, unfortunately many of them were only offering nonrefundable bookings.

Seems like it's dependent on the market. If hotels think they can offer only nonrefundable bookings in their towns, they will.

Usually it's one way or the other in many markets. Or more commonly they offer both with a big discount for nonrefundable bookings.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Did you ask for a credit?

I've gotten a bunch of credits, hope to use most of them some day but I'm also resigned to the possibility that I won't be able to.

When I booked many of these places, unfortunately many of them were only offering nonrefundable bookings.

Seems like it's dependent on the market. If hotels think they can offer only nonrefundable bookings in their towns, they will.

Usually it's one way or the other in many markets. Or more commonly they offer both with a big discount for nonrefundable bookings.

No, I am waiting to see if there's a complete ban on travel at the time I'm supposed to be there, in which case I might have a better case for a refund; otherwise, I suppose I'll ask for a credit if I can't get a refund, but who knows if or when we'll be able to use it?

 

[SpinDoctorTX]

Great Value Vacations only offered a credit for us to use by Dec 2021. We disputed the 6k through our Chase account. If they don't respond to Chase, with dispute will be closed and our refund already issued is ours to stay.

From working in treasury for 30ish yrs, I can tell you the cash apps or lock box staff don't have the time to recon the on account cash. That always fell to pricing & credit. Added to that, if there was an actual invalid dispute, the company has a very small window of time to dispute our dispute. The sellers notifications from the bank would come to nobody in particulars' name- just company name, add, Z. etc.

My point is (& I do have one- sorry for the ramble) that if your travel seller cancelled the trip, it is not your problem. We did have trip insurance, however we skipped that step and went right to Chase.

I feel really sorry for people who cannot get refunds for trips that won't happen... I would have been in that camp myself without Chase stepping up. We don't want to go to Ireland while there are all of these risks/ risky people wandering about. They don't want us either... imagine that!

 

[Sunset]

No, I am waiting to see if there's a complete ban on travel at the time I'm supposed to be there, in which case I might have a better case for a refund; otherwise, I suppose I'll ask for a credit if I can't get a refund, but who knows if or when we'll be able to use it?

I had fairly good luck with the London hotels, perhaps it was the timing, or simply that I used the term I was not a "key worker"

One hotel charged 1 night out of a 4 night stay, which I understand.
One refunded my 1 night.
One promised to refund it over the phone, but nothing yet..