Covid Vaccine Distribution

[timo2]

Maybe next time they can have a "shot mobile" (like the library's "book mobile"). There would be drive-thru style portals on the sides, and positive pressure on the inside. The syringe could ride out through the drawer, and the swab and injection could be done with a set of those arms with glove things. A stash of folding chairs strapped on the outside for the observation period. Park it on Elm lane and nobody without ID that said Elm lane need bother trying.

ETA: I said "next time", but don't I recall some really innovative inventions implemented in just a month or two by the British during WW2? "Crazy" ideas that just happened to shorten the war? Why not now? Like they say on the Six Million Dollar Man... "We have the technology..."

So a modified version of the pedal brew tour?

 

[ivinsfan]

I was simply correcting the erroneous claim that the 20 million dose estimate was made weeks before any EUA was issued for a vaccine. Why would you want to defend an erroneous claim?

If I wanted to defend any or every erroneous claim, I wouldn't have time to eat of sleep. Since 20 million didn't get vaccinated maybe we could move on to what's happening now.

 

[Gumby]

I was simply correcting the erroneous claim that the 20 million dose estimate was made weeks before any EUA was issued for a vaccine. Why would you want to defend an erroneous claim?

Don't troll. It is bad for the health of the thread.

 

[GenXguy]

Try the Bloomberg page and scroll down.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

Thanks. I would have preferred the list also include the % of people in each state vaccinated, but you can get that quickly by hovering the mouse pointer over the states in the map.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

Here is an opinion piece arguing in favor of administering the first shot to as many people as possible and deferring the booster until more shots become available. One of their points -

Here, the clinical trial results for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are reassuring. While they were designed to test the effectiveness of two shots given about a month apart, both showed that the first shot had a substantial benefit beginning around 10 days afterward. In both trials, by the time of the second shot, the first was already 80 to 90 percent effective in preventing covid-19 cases.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...der-delaying-second-dose-coronavirus-vaccine/

 

[Popeye]

Why what on Earth difference does it make? Clearly you are trying to cast someone as the bad guy. Do you think there was malicious intent here. If we lined up all the misinformation, wrong timelines, etc about COVID starting 12 months ago the line would go around the world.

We may actually be closer to the mark than we thought. Looks like Azar said 20 million doses available not 20 million doses administered. It’s a couple days past but yesterday showed over 13 million doses distributed. They have not all been administered but they are available. Go a step further and add in the doses being held in reserve for dose number two and you could very well get to 20 million in the US.

 

[ivinsfan]

I think the number that matter to most of us is the number of family that has gotten vaccinated..so far mine is zero.

 

[Chuckanut]

This works if the local government has the knowledge, infrastructure and budget to carry out a large scale high priority vaccination program. My concern is federal and state public health planning organizations are not prepared and deflect blame by assigning vaccine responsibility elsewhere.

+1

For some reason this vaccine rollout reminds me of the testing rollout in my state. It was hard to find a test location, hard to get a test, and there were huge delays in getting results of the test. Little actual information was coming from the state leadership. The public only heard vague comments like "We hope to have more test sites setup by next week". The current vaccination situation seems eerily similar. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Popeye]

Thanks. I would have preferred the list also include the % of people in each state vaccinated, but you can get that quickly by hovering the mouse pointer over the states in the map.

It’s a pretty good site and they seem to update the numbers every day including weekends and holidays.

 

[Aerides]

I was simply correcting the erroneous claim that the 20 million dose estimate was made weeks before any EUA was issued for a vaccine. Why would you want to defend an erroneous claim?

The head of OWS made the "could have 20m people vaccinated by year end" claims back in November, it was reported widely. I think he probably regrets that now because it wasn't in his span of control. He's a scientist, now the challenge is local logistics. He was likely thinking vaccines shipped=people vaccinated.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/13/trump-covid-vaccine-december-436481

 

[Ian S]

Here is an opinion piece arguing in favor of administering the first shot to as many people as possible and deferring the booster until more shots become available. One of their points -




https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...der-delaying-second-dose-coronavirus-vaccine/

While the authors make a good point about the effectiveness of the first shot and the problem the new strain(s) poses, they also acknowledge that "more worrisome are the distribution bottlenecks that are making it difficult to vaccinate people as quickly as possible." It seems to me that until the distribution issues are solved, I doubt we can actually vaccinate people at a much higher rate than we are now doing. Still the delayed second shot approach shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

 

[GenXguy]

Here is an opinion piece arguing in favor of administering the first shot to as many people as possible and deferring the booster until more shots become available. One of their points -

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...der-delaying-second-dose-coronavirus-vaccine/

In my review of the studies they linked to, for Moderna, it says "some degree of prevention may be afforded after the first dose", and Pfizer's study says 52% VE (vaccine efficacy) after a single dose and BEFORE a second dose. It appears the author of that article is misinterpreting things to come to his 80 to 90% effective comment from a single dose. I did not find support of those numbers in the studies linked to. I might have overlooked something, though.

The Pfizer study says:

Secondary efficacy analyses suggested benefit of the vaccine in preventing severe COVID-19, in preventing COVID-19 following the first dose, and in preventing COVID-19 in individuals with prior SARS-CoV-2 infection, although available data for these outcomes did not allow for firm conclusions

...with VE of 52.4% (95% CI: 29.5%, 68.4%) between Dose 1 and Dose 2. The efficacy observed after Dose 1 and before Dose 2, from a post-hoc analysis, cannot support a conclusion on the efficacy of a single dose of the vaccine, because the time of observation is limited by the fact that most of the participants received a second dose after three weeks. The trial did not have a single-dose arm to make an adequate comparison

 

[bjorn2bwild]

In my review of the studies they linked to, for Moderna, it says "some degree of prevention may be afforded after the first dose", and Pfizer's study says 52% VE (vaccine efficacy) after a single dose and BEFORE a second dose. It appears the author of that article is misinterpreting things to come to his 80 to 90% effective comment from a single dose. I did not find support of those numbers in the studies linked to. I might have overlooked something, though.

The Pfizer study says:

Secondary efficacy analyses suggested benefit of the vaccine in preventing severe COVID-19, in preventing COVID-19 following the first dose, and in preventing COVID-19 in individuals with prior SARS-CoV-2 infection, although available data for these outcomes did not allow for firm conclusions

...with VE of 52.4% (95% CI: 29.5%, 68.4%) between Dose 1 and Dose 2. The efficacy observed after Dose 1 and before Dose 2, from a post-hoc analysis, cannot support a conclusion on the efficacy of a single dose of the vaccine, because the time of observation is limited by the fact that most of the participants received a second dose after three weeks. The trial did not have a single-dose arm to make an adequate comparison

Here is Dr Asish's Twitter feed where he explains his position. Perhaps you could challenge him there for more clarity.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1345771195732553733

PS - Prof. Iwasaki's feed -

https://twitter.com/x/status/1345086669607890945

 

[Go-NoGo]

For a country by country comparison of the vaccines administered and rates, this site has it aggregated in a nice format:

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

 

[explanade]

+1

For some reason this vaccine rollout reminds me of the testing rollout in my state. It was hard to find a test location, hard to get a test, and there were huge delays in getting results of the test. Little actual information was coming from the state leadership. The public only heard vague comments like "We hope to have more test sites setup by next week". The current vaccination situation seems eerily similar. I hope I am wrong.

There should be some standardization but the bigger problem is that local agencies and hospitals, clinics and pharmacies couldn't plan ahead, such as hire people, maybe set up some reservation system.

The relief bill which was recently passed allocates money that could have been used months ago to set up and maybe even practice administering a lot of vaccines.

Now it seems many localities are just winging it, with some places making it a free for all for who gets vaccinated.

 

[GenXguy]

Here is Dr Asish's Twitter feed where he explains his position. Perhaps you could challenge him there for more clarity.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1345771195732553733

PS - Prof. Iwasaki's feed -

https://twitter.com/x/status/1345086669607890945

I checked Dr. Ashish's older twitter thread where he states the same VE range, but no further detail how he got that. There was already a response from someone citing the 52% VE of one dose in the Pfizer study. But I did some more digging, and I located the FDA briefing document on the Moderna vaccine here:

https://www.fda.gov/media/144434/download

This document says, "Additional analyses were done to assess efficacy against COVID-19 after one dose of mRNA-1273. In participants in the mITT set who only received one dose of the vaccine at the time of the interim analysis, VE after one dose was 80.2% (95% CI 55.2%, 92.5%). These participants had a median follow-up time of 28 days (range: 1 to 108 days). The small, non-random sample and short median follow-up time limits the interpretation of these results. There appears to be some protection against COVID-19 disease following one dose; however, these data do not provide sufficient information about longer term protection beyond 28 days after a single dose."

At least that explains where the 80% came from, but because of the limitations mentioned in the document, I think it would be a bad idea to change to this method of distribution and "just see what happens." Of course, if Moderna really does provide that much VE after a single dose, I'm only 3 days from the 14 day mark myself. But at the 28 day median mark mentioned in the briefing, I'll be due for my second dose.

 

[ivinsfan]

I checked Dr. Ashish's older twitter thread where he states the same VE range, but no further detail how he got that. There was already a response from someone citing the 52% VE of one dose in the Pfizer study. But I did some more digging, and I located the FDA briefing document on the Moderna vaccine here:

https://www.fda.gov/media/144434/download

This document says, "Additional analyses were done to assess efficacy against COVID-19 after one dose of mRNA-1273. In participants in the mITT set who only received one dose of the vaccine at the time of the interim analysis, VE after one dose was 80.2% (95% CI 55.2%, 92.5%). These participants had a median follow-up time of 28 days (range: 1 to 108 days). The small, non-random sample and short median follow-up time limits the interpretation of these results. There appears to be some protection against COVID-19 disease following one dose; however, these data do not provide sufficient information about longer term protection beyond 28 days after a single dose."

At least that explains where the 80% came from, but because of the limitations mentioned in the document, I think it would be a bad idea to change to this method of distribution and "just see what happens." Of course, if Moderna really does provide that much VE after a single dose, I'm only 3 days from the 14 day mark myself. But at the 28 day median mark mentioned in the briefing, I'll be due for my second dose.

Ok, then, but this thread isn't really about you, if you have mentioned getting your first dose of Moderna once you have mentioned it a dozen times..I get it you are one of the lucky first ones vaccinated.. You aren't really impartial about the possible timing of a second dose.

Maybe those of us that haven't been vaccinated yet are perfectly fine with you waiting another 10 weeks to get your second dose.

Then the second dose could be used to give more people a first dose.

 

[ivinsfan]

There should be some standardization but the bigger problem is that local agencies and hospitals, clinics and pharmacies couldn't plan ahead, such as hire people, maybe set up some reservation system.

The relief bill which was recently passed allocates money that could have been used months ago to set up and maybe even practice administering a lot of vaccines.

Now it seems many localities are just winging it, with some places making it a free for all for who gets vaccinated.

I don't think it's actually the money, there is tons of COVID assistance money floating around. I think it's more about the cumbersome way we govern in this country. For better or worse it's the system we have.

 

[BarbWire]

IWe are only in the valley til the end of Feb tho, so if our first appointment doesn’t give us enough time to get the second shot while we are here we will have to forgo the first one.

I expect that many people who seasonally migrate will be in the same predicament.

One of my (many) questions is whether the provider of jab #2 must be the same as the provider of jab #1, or is it sufficient just for jab #2 to be the same vaccine as #1, and you can get it where-ever you are.

My 6-month pandemic-hunker down apartment lease ends in mid-March. I don't fancy renewing it for another 6 months just to hang around in central Texas waiting for jab #2.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

I expect that many people who seasonally migrate will be in the same predicament.

One of my (many) questions is whether the provider of jab #2 must be the same as the provider of jab #1, or is it sufficient just for jab #2 to be the same vaccine as #1, and you can get it where-ever you are.

My 6-month pandemic-hunker down apartment lease ends in mid-March. I don't fancy renewing it for another 6 months just to hang around in central Texas waiting for jab #2.

Embedded within the twitter feed I linked is this tweet -

Prof. Akiko Iwasaki

@VirusesImmunity
Jan 1
The good thing about the mRNA vaccine is that if you prime with it, you can boost with other types of vaccines (viral vectored, DNA, mRNA…etc). In the future, a mixed prime boost vaccine strategies can be tested to provide long term protective immunity. (9/n)

 

[eytonxav]

As long as people stay spaced, I'm fine with long lines - no/less wasted vaccine. Good deal. Have at it.

You missed my point, the problem was people who didn't follow the county's process and showed up without a scheduled appointment. That is ridiculous behavior.

 

[ivinsfan]

You missed my point, the problem was people who didn't follow the county's process and showed up without a scheduled appointment. That is ridiculous behavior.

Not if it works for them.

 

[eytonxav]

Not if it works for them.

You really find that acceptable?

 

[W2R]

I am sure there are logical reasons for having appointments, but gee whiz. I am such a old fool. I remember when the polio vaccine first came out in April (?) 1955 or so, we just went whenever we felt like it and stood in line. OK, the line was very, very long, but as a kid I didn't mind a bit and thought it was super fun to be lined up in front of the Catholic Church (where the vaccinations were being given) and on down the street for a couple of blocks with a few hundred other kids and their parents. My parents didn't mind waiting either; they were just so glad to get their three kids vaccinated.

 

[timo2]

OK. So now I think I'll get one of every vaccine. If the authorities won't allow that, I'll just cut in line.