Covid Vaccine Distribution

[explanade]

So 1% of 2.5 million would be 25,000.

.1% would be 2500.

So they're about .025%?

 

[audreyh1]

The biggest objection I hear about is related to the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines being “new technology” and therefore relatively untested over the long term. The J&J vaccine is more traditional so I don’t hear objections to J&J, but we don’t have much access to J&J in our community right now.

We also have a number of people who have already had COVID and have decided they don’t need the vaccine. They insist that their doctors are telling them not to get it. I think that is counter to what CDC has been saying but I’m not in a position to argue with them.

One thing interesting is medical doctors have very high acceptance of the vaccine, like over 90%. I guess they are comfortable with new medical technology.

But I suspect it’s also that they understand how these vaccines work and that mRNA technology is actually less invasive than a traditional vaccine.

 

[RobbieB]

Also, the vaccines were 100% effective in preventing hospitalization and death after full immunization takes effect. A fact that is often tactfully omitted by the news media.

This is the only thing that matters. If you get the vacc, you avoid a slow agonizing death in the ICU.

Yeah, I got the shots.

 

[audreyh1]

Well, we know the number is not going to be 100%, as Phase 3 trials involved tens of thousands of people, not millions of people. But so far it appears to be well above 99%. Above 99.9% protection from hospitalization in that second example in my prior post https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f55/covid-vaccine-distribution-106812-155.html#post2591035 .

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

...
So why do I keep seeing headlines like "vaccinated person gets Covid" or "person gets side effects from vaccine"? I mean, it's not news....

Yes, but good news doesn't sell clicks.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

This is the only thing that matters. If you get the vacc, you avoid a slow agonizing death in the ICU.

Yeah, I got the shots.

This. I wasn't too worried about getting COVID, I was worried about being a long haul patient or being stuck on a vent for any period of time. If the vaccine brings that to near zero then I am happy to have taken it.

Current calculation for my demographic/risk/vaccine profile is:

Among people in your county who have behaviors and levels of interaction with others that are similar to yours, the estimated probability of catching COVID-19 through community transmission in a week is 0.028%

I will take that risk.

 

[Chuckanut]

Part of the risk calculation has to be how sustainable are the behaviors that we use to minimize risk. I successfully avoided Covid for a year. Great. I will pin a medal on myself. But, can I do it for another year? Hmmm.... Thanks to the vaccine I don't have to find out. I am grateful for that.

 

[audreyh1]

Part of the risk calculation has to be how sustainable are the behaviors that we use to minimize risk. I successfully avoided Covid for a year. Great. I will pin a medal on myself. But, can I do it for another year? Hmmm.... Thanks to the vaccine I don't have to find out. I am grateful for that.

You still should take some precautions in public as long as general cases remain high, but around other vaccinated folks risks are incredibly reduced.

 

[Amethyst]

Exactly my thoughts.

Also I simply haven't been able to duplicate the benefits of a gym at home. I realize some people can, but for me it's not working that well. I need more structure.

Part of the risk calculation has to be how sustainable are the behaviors that we use to minimize risk. I successfully avoided Covid for a year. Great. I will pin a medal on myself. But, can I do it for another year? Hmmm.... Thanks to the vaccine I don't have to find out. I am grateful for that.

 

[sengsational]

Pretty cynical. You say you don't watch TV, which is fine, but how do you then find the information needed to have an informed opinion?

I think it highly unlikely that a simple, low risk way to deal with covid would be suppressed.

You and pretty much everyone that gets news from big media.

I critically analyze research published in science and medical journals. I listen to lots opinions and critically analyze what they say, or don't mention at all. Those with an axe to grind are on a short leash, especially if they would be expected to at least comment on something, but they've remained mum. My primary source for information about treating the disease are clinicians. Real doctors that are treating real people suffering from Covid and that are not satisfied with "go home, do nothing, and come back when you can't breath", which is the official approach in the US. Other countries do have official protocols for early treatment. They realize that often all that is required is to slow it down a bit, giving the immune system a bit longer before it replicates so much. To suggest, in the face of much evidence, including prospective trials combined into meta analysis with many thousands of participants, that the best approach for early treatment is "do nothing" seems ludicrous to me.

 

[ivinsfan]

You and pretty much everyone that gets news from big media.

I critically analyze research published in science and medical journals. I listen to lots opinions and critically analyze what they say, or don't mention at all. Those with an axe to grind are on a short leash, especially if they would be expected to at least comment on something, but they've remained mum. My primary source for information about treating the disease are clinicians. Real doctors that are treating real people suffering from Covid and that are not satisfied with "go home, do nothing, and come back when you can't breath", which is the official approach in the US. Other countries do have official protocols for early treatment. They realize that often all that is required is to slow it down a bit, giving the immune system a bit longer before it replicates so much. To suggest, in the face of much evidence, including prospective trials combined into meta analysis with many thousands of participants, that the best approach for early treatment is "do nothing" seems ludicrous to me.

I think at this point you are overstating the "do nothing" statement. In early days when the country was overwhelmed and unformed about Covid transmissions, that was probably true. As of now I don't think it is, that might depend on the area you live IDK, but in my area they are way more aggressive with early treatment trying to prevent the worst outcome.

 

[sengsational]

I think at this point you are overstating the "do nothing" statement. In early days when the country was overwhelmed and unformed about Covid transmissions, that was probably true. As of now I don't think it is, that might depend on the area you live IDK, but in my area they are way more aggressive with early treatment trying to prevent the worst outcome.

That's great news! I hope I'm wrong that current / typical / accepted practice is to wait and hope symptoms don't get worse. Is there a specific early treatment protocol that's been mentioned by Gottlieb or other high-profile types that get on the big news outlets? Most of those people seem to be saying "more study needed". If they've not made statements supporting or rejecting any specific early treatment, then "more study needed" isn't adding much.

 

[ivinsfan]

That's great news! I hope I'm wrong that current / typical / accepted practice is to wait and hope symptoms don't get worse. Is there a specific early treatment protocol that's been mentioned by Gottlieb or other high-profile types that get on the big news outlets? Most of those people seem to be saying "more study needed". If they've not made statements supporting or rejecting any specific early treatment, then "more study needed" isn't adding much.

Can't answer your question, we've had a few people from church get covid and from the prayer chain emails, the docs are more pro active then they used to be.. one guy got antibodies. I think a couple others got treatment much like Alan's son did.

 

[disneysteve]

The monoclonal antibody therapy that the former president got is now routinely available. My hospital has used it on nearly 600 patients to date. That along with steroids and some other stuff has a lot to do with the lower death rates. We've learned a great deal about treating COVID in a very short time.

 

[audreyh1]

The monoclonal antibody therapy that the former president got is now routinely available. My hospital has used it on nearly 600 patients to date. That along with steroids and some other stuff has a lot to do with the lower death rates. We've learned a great deal about treating COVID in a very short time.

That’s good to know because sometimes we get the feeling that such treatments aren’t readily used.

I guess there will be challenges with the new variants which don’t respond to current monoclonal antibodies.

 

[explanade]

Problem is the antibody cocktails are most effective early in the infection but you have to be in hospital to get it.

By the time you get bad enough to get hospitalized, the window may have passed.

Regeneron is trying an injection, which doesn’t require hospitalization.

Alternate approach is antiviral pills in trials.

But in the UK, they had some promis8ng results with a cortical steroid commonly used in inhalers for asthma. May hear more of this soon.

 

[Dtail]

My brother is getting his Moderna first shot today. It took 3 weeks on the waiting list to get it.

 

[disneysteve]

Problem is the antibody cocktails are most effective early in the infection but you have to be in hospital to get it.

By the time you get bad enough to get hospitalized, the window may have passed.

That's not true, not here at least. In fact it's just the opposite. Our protocol is to identify candidates as early as possible. They can only receive the monoclonal antibody treatment if they are within 10 days of onset of symptoms. If we see a patient in urgent care who meets criteria (or a PCP sees someone in their practice), we refer them to the treatment team right away.


Hospitalized patients can be treated but only in that 10-day window. The idea is to catch them early before they get to that stage.

 

[REWahoo]

Problem is the antibody cocktails are most effective early in the infection but you have to be in hospital to get it.

That's not true, not here at least.

Not here, either.

I know two folks in their 70's who were diagnosed with the virus and got an antibody IV as outpatients the following day. This was a couple of months ago and both recovered without being hospitalized.

 

[explanade]

That's not true, not here at least. In fact it's just the opposite. Our protocol is to identify candidates as early as possible. They can only receive the monoclonal antibody treatment if they are within 10 days of onset of symptoms. If we see a patient in urgent care who meets criteria (or a PCP sees someone in their practice), we refer them to the treatment team right away.


Hospitalized patients can be treated but only in that 10-day window. The idea is to catch them early before they get to that stage.

Well earlier this year there was a report that the cocktails haven’t been used routinely.

By the time people have symptoms aren’t they advised don’t come to hospital unless symptoms like fever don’t break after a couple of days?

 

[JoeWras]

By the time people have symptoms aren’t they advised don’t come to hospital unless symptoms like fever don’t break after a couple of days?

That was last spring and summer. Back then it was "don't contact us unless you can't breathe."

We've come a long way since then.

In the USA, you should definitely call your PCP if you suspect covid and ask about treatment. Based on your history, it may mean staying home, or it may mean further tests and/or immediate treatment. It is more than just going to the hospital. Your PCP can order up work. At least that's how it went with my BIL. His doctor ordered up the monoclonal treatment on his first visit (only had symptoms for a day or two) based on his age and history. He got the treatment about 3 days later when a slot was available. He got immediate improvement from the treatment.

 

[disneysteve]

By the time people have symptoms aren’t they advised don’t come to hospital unless symptoms like fever don’t break after a couple of days?

This isn't a hospital-level treatment protocol. It's outpatient. If you walk into my urgent care today with symptoms, we're going to COVID test you. If you're positive and you meet the demographic criteria for monoclonal antibody therapy, we're going to get you set up for it.


The only part of the process that involves a hospital is that our infusions are being performed at the hospital but on an outpatient basis. You come in, get your infusion, and go home. You're not admitted.

 

[JoeWras]

Perhaps, but this isn't a hospital-level treatment protocol. It's outpatient. If you walk into my urgent care today with symptoms, we're going to COVID test you. If you're positive and you meet the demographic criteria for monoclonal antibody therapy, we're going to get you set up for it.


The only part of the process that involves a hospital is that our infusions are being performed at the hospital but on an outpatient basis. You come in, get your infusion, and go home. You're not admitted.

Bingo! This is exactly my BIL's experience.

 

[Another Reader]

This isn't a hospital-level treatment protocol. It's outpatient. If you walk into my urgent care today with symptoms, we're going to COVID test you. If you're positive and you meet the demographic criteria for monoclonal antibody therapy, we're going to get you set up for it.


The only part of the process that involves a hospital is that our infusions are being performed at the hospital but on an outpatient basis. You come in, get your infusion, and go home. You're not admitted.

And that's the way it should be. Doesn't happen here...

 

[disneysteve]

By the time people have symptoms aren’t they advised don’t come to hospital unless symptoms like fever don’t break after a couple of days?

Here's a real life example:


A patient was seen in our clinic yesterday. He had a COVID test. It came back positive at 11:06 AM today. I just went into his chart at 11:22 AM to call him with his result only to find that the nurse from the mAb team had already called the patient with his result and already scheduled his infusion.


It's being handled very quickly and efficiently here at least.