Is a dilute bleach solution a satisfactory hand cleaner for COVID?

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just_Steve I found the below to be an interesting read. Dakin Solution (Sodium Hypochlorite) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK507916/

Thanks for the link. It's the first reference I see that calls the solution by the name Dakin fluid or Carrel-Dakin.

And it was in use in WWI, and still remains in use today.

[NW-Bound]

Regarding the deterioration of the solution, I went to my car and retrieved the little 4-oz. bottle I left there, in order to check it. The last time I used it when going out was perhaps 3 days ago.

I do not have anything to measure its potency, but just by pouring it on to my palm and smelling it, the chlorine smell has diminished quite a bit.

From now on, I will make a new solution each time I go out. It's easy to pour a bit of bleach right into that bitty plastic bottle, then add water to mix. It takes only a couple of minutes to make a little vial. There's no need to make more than a couple of tablespoons, instead the whole vial. And it is quite OK to err on the stronger side. There's no need to measure exactly if I make it stronger.

And a stronger solution can last for a couple of days, particularly as I will bring the vial inside instead of leaving it in the car, from this point on.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby Quote: Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post But now that we actually have the CDC guide, we know the end result. But that doesn't change the process of questioning it until we have that information, which was what was being done here. Prudently, IMO. Well, I guess that's one way to sugarcoat it.

Sugarcoat what?

The purpose of these threads is to provide good information to people. Getting from an initial suggestion to a something with some credibility and references is a process. The process is the same regardless the outcome - what does "sugarcoating" have to do with anything?

-ERD50

[Gumby]

Whatever you say, Sparky.

[NW-Bound]

While on the topic of bleach, I will share a useful tip with you, this time having nothing to do with the virus.

I had some ugly grout lines in the bathroom with black mold, in the tiles surrounding the tub. I had tried everything from bleach to vinegar, Lysol, tile cleaner, etc..., using a tooth brush to scrub the solution into the grout. It helped a bit, but the result was not worth the effort I put into it.

I got so disgusted, and thought that the only way to get rid of the eyesores was to remodel. Yea, have a contractor chip the tiles out, and remodel the bathroom at the same time. My wife was enthusiastic with the idea, and said we also needed new faucets, and this and that. I did not mind spending the money, but was not so eager about having workers in the home tearing things out making a mess. This was before the virus fiasco. My bathroom was fine as is, except for the faucets. And the moldy grout lines, of course.

I thought about this for a bit. How could this mold stand up to pure bleach? It was not possible. It was like you hit someone on the head with a sledge hammer, and he was impervious to it.

Then, it occurred to me. The mold had grown into the porous cement of the grout lines. For bleach to reach it, I needed to have standing bleach on it, for the bleach to soak in. But how do I do this on a vertical surface?

A bulb went off in my head. I took a sheet of kitchen paper towel, and cut it into strips of 1/4" wide. I then dipped the strips in pure unadulterated bleach, and applied it on the grout lines. You might want to wear latex gloves when working with pure bleach, but I was a brute, and I worked fast. I had to be fast anyway, as the bleach caused the paper to come apart quickly. The wet paper strips adhered very well over the grout lines. I pressed down on the paper over the grout, making sure there was no bubble. Then, I let it sit overnight.

The next morning, the 1st thing I did was to peel off the paper strips to inspect the results.

Wholly Molly! Very little elbow grease, and the results were so astounding. No sign of mold at all! I wished I had taken before/after photos, but I was so anxious to try out the idea.

Now, you can use entire sheets of paper towel, because paper towel is cheap, and so is bleach. However, application of that is going to be harder, I think.

Try this. You will be so glad to get great results for so little work. The mold has not come back in 2 months, but when it does, I will know what to do.

PS. I also replaced the faucets. My wife is now happy, and says she does not need to remodel anymore.

[harley]

Just checking back in to this thread after a couple of days. I can't believe you guys are still going round and round about this. Hahahaha!

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by harley Just checking back in to this thread after a couple of days. I can't believe you guys are still going round and round about this. Hahahaha!

I thought you had this thread on "Ignore".

Due to the discussion, I am now more alert about checking my homemade sanitizer often, due to its losing potency when left inside the car.

It's all worth it to me. And I have learned a few more medical facts. It's all good.

When you keep your mind open, you learn a lot of serendipitous things.

[bzribee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 I share Ready's skepticism here. I don't think it is close-mindedness at all. The CDC guidelines for bleach are for surfaces. They have no recommendation for bleach on hands, and those are listed in the same link - soap/water or alcohol based for hand washing. -ERD50

+1

[bzribee]

In fact, everything I read about bleach requires that you leave it on SURFACES (like kitchen counters) for 2-5 minutes, then wipe in a single direction.



Glad if you think it works for you but I"ll stick with alcohol when soap and water are not available. And no matter what we use, hopefully it helps us remember not to touch our face or hair.

[donheff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bzribee In fact, everything I read about bleach requires that you leave it on SURFACES (like kitchen counters) for 2-5 minutes, then wipe in a single direction. Glad if you think it works for you but I"ll stick with alcohol when soap and water are not available. And no matter what we use, hopefully it helps us remember not to touch our face or hair.

Round and round. This is a fun thread. Dig through all the references above and you will find at least one reputable source that describes a dilute bleach solution for use as a hand sanitizer (as well as surfaces). No, I'm not digging through to find the cite and re-post it.

[inkitnow]

I just made my own hand sanitizer after searching for days online. 3:4 rubbing alcohol; 1/4 aloe Vera.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donheff Round and round. This is a fun thread. Dig through all the references above and you will find at least one reputable source that describes a dilute bleach solution for use as a hand sanitizer (as well as surfaces). No, I'm not digging through to find the cite and re-post it.

Yes, bzribee quoted a post of mine from before anyone found a reference from the CDC about using bleach for hands (though it still seems to be for when soap/water or alc is not available).

What the heck, since this thread got visited again, I still do not understand why anyone would want to deal with bleach and diluting it and replenishing it to keep it fresh and risking staining clothes/car. A bar of soap, bottle of water, and a towel in the car is cheap, easy, and no "shelf life" concerns.

To each his own, and whatever, but I just don't get the attraction for bleach.

-ERD50

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by inkitnow I just made my own hand sanitizer after searching for days online. 3:4 rubbing alcohol; 1/4 aloe Vera.

Are you certain that is an approved recipe? Everything I've read says you want at least 60% alc, and I think that refers to the end product dilution. If you are diluting it to 3/4 strength with the aloe vera, do you need to start with at least 93% alc?

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/why-you-...and-sanitizer/

Quote:

The WHO's official instructions call for denatured alcohol or isopropyl alcohol, glycerol (also known as glycerin), hydrogen peroxide and sterile water. You must measure the concentration of alcohol in the final product using an alcoholometer to ensure it is effective at killing germs and safe to use. Homemade hand sanitizer recipes Most of the countless recipes out there use a mix of 91% or 99% isopropyl alcohol (also known as rubbing alcohol) and aloe vera gel, which is necessary to add moisture to your skin because alcohol will dry it out. In these recipes, the typical ratio is two thirds rubbing alcohol to one third of a cup of aloe vera gel.

-ERD50

[donheff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 Yes, bzribee quoted a post of mine from before anyone found a reference from the CDC about using bleach for hands (though it still seems to be for when soap/water or alc is not available). What the heck, since this thread got visited again, I still do not understand why anyone would want to deal with bleach and diluting it and replenishing it to keep it fresh and risking staining clothes/car. A bar of soap, bottle of water, and a towel in the car is cheap, easy, and no "shelf life" concerns. To each his own, and whatever, but I just don't get the attraction for bleach. -ERD50

how about this: it’s obvious that CDC is going to recommend masking. I found a few N95s from when I sanded floors a while back. If I start wearing them for shopping I will need to reuse. CDC discourages reuse but an article Dr Google pulled up mentions bleach if you have to reuse masks. Spraying them with dilute bleach followed by immersion in water seems less destructive than trying to scrub them with soap and water.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donheff how about this: it’s obvious that CDC is going to recommend masking. I found a few N95s from when I sanded floors a while back. If I start wearing them for shopping I will need to reuse. CDC discourages reuse but an article Dr Google pulled up mentions bleach if you have to reuse masks. Spraying them with dilute bleach followed by immersion in water seems less destructive than trying to scrub them with soap and water.

We are talking hands, not masks. I've read that some solution break down the electrostatic qualities of the mask, and reduce effectiveness (though anything is better than nothing).

I found a study that showed a simple dry heat treatment would keep the masks effective for reuse. This was a reference from another source, but I lost that link.

Can disposable masks be reused after sterilization?

Quote:

The new coronavirus is sensitive to heat. It can effectively inactivate the new coronavirus by heating for 30 minutes at 56 degrees Celsius. Therefore, the single dry heat sterilization (70 degrees Celsius heating for 30 minutes) can effectively inactivate the virus without affecting the protective function of the mask. However, it is uncertain whether several times of disinfection affects the protective effect of the mask.

-ERD50

[donheff]

Thanks for the heat suggestion. I can toss em in a 160 oven with the rotisserie chicken.

[meleana]

Just use soap and water. I don’t understand this obsession with so called sanitizers. They are not any better than plain soap and water.

[Ready]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meleana Just use soap and water. I don’t understand this obsession with so called sanitizers. They are not any better than plain soap and water.

I don’t think anyone here is obsessed with it. We just recognize there are certain situations where we don’t have access to soap and water, like after leaving the grocery store. So using hand sanitizer before you get in your car is a good practice. Of course you will still wash your hands with soap and water after you get home as well.

[tmm99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHobbit Pro-tip, make your own hand sanitizer by: Buy: 1. 90-97% pure aloe vera gel (you can get this from walmart.com) 2. 93-99% Rubbing alcohol (not 70%!) 3. Essential oil such as lavender Mix 3/4 cups rubbing alcohol with 1/4 cup aloe vera gel and 10 drops of the essential oil. For about $30-40 you can make more sanitizer than you'll ever want or need. Key point, you need about 60-70% rubbing alcohol to kill the COVID-19 virus in your sanitizer. Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/ho...hand-sanitizer

I made something similar to this with 91% alcohol (10oz) and aloe (3oz) with no essential oil, but it's very watery. Has anybody tried making it?

[Ready]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmm99 I made something similar to this with 91% alcohol (10oz) and aloe (3oz) with no essential oil, but it's very watery. Has anybody tried making it?

Yes, I had the same problem. It’s not much thicker than just alcohol so it doesn’t stay on your hands for very long.

And now it’s impossible to find rubbing alcohol or aloe Vera gel anywhere in stock.