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06-08-2021, 11:36 AM
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#21
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USGrant1962
I know a number of people who had confirmed cases of Covid that are procrastinating on vax.
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I am one of them. Confirmed case and recovery for the entire family. Can’t see a reason to run out and get it and am considering reprioritizing travel order the next 12-24 months to let things evolve. No real issue in delaying other than changing priority order. I did see a headline today that talked about how the vaccine was so much better for you than natural
Immunity for what that’s worth. I also see a lot of public shaming on the subject. Of course I learned a new term last night health freedom as there appears to be some organized movement to resist. Seems like it’s a movement to allow people to make their own health choices.
All this reminds me of Dr Suess The Whos with stars and the Whos without. In the end the only guy that won was the guy with the star machine.
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06-08-2021, 11:42 AM
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#22
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerides
Me too, but it wasn't Covid. Just a regular respiratory infection, even though I had a fever and cough that lasted a few weeks. I thought for sure I must be an early case, but no testing existed in the US for regular people until a month or more later. I even went to the docs and got a negative Flu test. I had most of the symptoms, and my illness came right after an international convention. Had it occurred even 2 weeks later it might have been an early super spreader.
I paid for an antibody test last June when they first came out...Negative. I know they're inconclusive, but I'll take that as a nope.
I would caution anyone who is sure they had it, but never got an actual diagnosis, or positive antibody test result, to proceed as if they didn't. I'm sure there are millions of people who, like me, are pretty sure they had it...but in reality didn't.
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Good advice. Everyone should do what they feel is best. Not sure if antibodies would've still shown up in June from a February infection. They say the antibodies withdraw to the bone marrow when there is no more infection to fight. That caused the initial science to think immunity wore off quickly, instead of now hoping it could last a lifetime.
So I'm sure I'd test negative for antibodies today (or last June too).
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06-09-2021, 09:23 AM
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#23
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: northern Michigan
Posts: 2,213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerides
Me too, but it wasn't Covid. Just a regular respiratory infection, even though I had a fever and cough that lasted a few weeks. I thought for sure I must be an early case, but no testing existed in the US for regular people until a month or more later. I even went to the docs and got a negative Flu test. I had most of the symptoms, and my illness came right after an international convention. Had it occurred even 2 weeks later it might have been an early super spreader.
I paid for an antibody test last June when they first came out...Negative. I know they're inconclusive, but I'll take that as a nope.
I would caution anyone who is sure they had it, but never got an actual diagnosis, or positive antibody test result, to proceed as if they didn't. I'm sure there are millions of people who, like me, are pretty sure they had it...but in reality didn't.
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How do you know for sure you did not have COVID? COVID was starting to spread in the USA around that time, and even earlier in California and some other places. It's very possible that you did have COVID, if you had most of the symptoms. An antibody test taken 4 months later means very little, according to research that shows antibodies fade away once the body has suppressed the infection (the T-cells and B-cells remain, however).
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06-09-2021, 09:29 AM
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#24
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12,566
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Antibodies seem to vary. When we visited southeast Asia in early 2020, our doctor had us get tested for measles antibodies (measles was a concern just then; COVID was a "Chinese problem"). We both had plenty left over from when we were six years old.
Unless - you microbiologists weigh in here - it's not antibodies at this point, but some other entity? Our dr. used the word antibodies.
[QUOTE=RAE;2614313]Tut antibodies tend to fade away with time - as would expected, because once you are no longer sick, there is no need to pack the bloodstream with antibodies.
__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success – to be able to spend your life in your own way.’ Christopher Morley.
Even a blind clock finds an acorn twice a day.
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06-09-2021, 09:43 AM
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#25
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: DC area
Posts: 2,464
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Here's another study showing infection is equivalent to vaccination for generating immunity.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20...nic-study.aspx
Seems kind of obvious to me. Fundamentally, vaccines simulate catching the disease so your immune system can react.
__________________
FI and Semi-ER March 24, 2017
Consulting to stay engaged
"All models are wrong, some are useful." - George Box
“There is always a well-known solution to every human problem: neat, plausible, and wrong.” - H.L. Mencken
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06-09-2021, 09:52 AM
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#26
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Chicago West Burbs
Posts: 2,996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teetee
Is it wise to consider that the vaccines we have now, and the immunity from surviving infections only prevent severe reactions from reinfections ( so you don't die from it ), but they do not prevent the short window that some virus escaped from the killer cells and are able to transmit from you to the others?
I raise this question because I think it is safer to block the transmission using known good measures like social distancing and mask wearing.
Vaccine efficacy are measured based on death from infected test subjects, not the successful rate of blocking transmission. Throwing masks out of the window now gives the virus and it's variants a breathing room and that means our risk for them (though slower than without vaccines) to mutate to develope a vaccine-resistant strain.
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Not really true. Efficacy in the trials was measured based on being non-symptomatic over the 3 month period after vaccination, not simply deaths. I do agree on the effectiveness of masks.
Personally, I took the vaccine for 3 reasons, some amount of immunity, a reduced impact if I contracted Covid and the lower likelihood of infecting other loved ones around me. I now follow the CDC guidelines of mask wearing and don't wear one unless the locations require (or even just request one) or others around me are wearing theirs.
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06-09-2021, 10:26 AM
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#27
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: northern Michigan
Posts: 2,213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USGrant1962
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Thanks for posting the link to this latest study. I had not seen it yet. Here is one quote from the summary of the study that says it pretty clearly:
"Importantly, not a single incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection was observed in previously infected participants with or without vaccination."
Also, it may well be that those who have had COVID actually have stronger, more durable immunity than those who did not have COVID, and got the vaccine. The reason for that is that, the vaccine uses the "spike protein" from the virus to teach the body to defend itself against that protein. The real, live virus is composed of MANY different proteins (the more complex viruses can contain up to 200 different proteins). So, when the live virus intrudes, the body has a chance to identify and remember all of those different proteins. My understanding is that the B-cells (mostly in the bone marrow) are the cells that hold that information in their memory, and then are able to quickly produce antibodies if any of the foreign proteins enter the body again.
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06-09-2021, 10:37 AM
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#28
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 13,845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAE
How do you know for sure you did not have COVID? COVID was starting to spread in the USA around that time, and even earlier in California and some other places. It's very possible that you did have COVID, if you had most of the symptoms. An antibody test taken 4 months later means very little, according to research that shows antibodies fade away once the body has suppressed the infection (the T-cells and B-cells remain, however).
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I don't know that I didn't for sure, of course. Just as someone who had my symptoms but never got a positive test also doesn't know for sure. We both may have, or may not.
Hence my point: With lack of concrete evidence of a prior covid infection, IMO, one should proceed as if one does not have the protection such a prior bout would very probably provide.
Running around going "eh, pretty sure I had it so I'll pass on a vaccine" is not a good idea. Getting a vaccine if you already had Covid has no downside, especially in the US where demand is currently lower than supply.
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06-13-2021, 01:30 PM
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#29
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,405
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Here's an article that will appeal to Gumby, because what Navy guy doesn't enjoy an opportunity to poke a Marine. The NMRC is going to a detailed study of a cohort of Marine recruits that tested positive last year at Parris Island. The first three paragraphs are descriptive...
A new Naval Medical Research Center (NMRC) study of young Marines who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 hopes to show how exposure to the coronavirus might protect against future infections and identify chronic health issues tied to COVID-19.
A research team from NMRC will travel to South Carolina in mid-June to revisit Marines who last year enrolled in a study at Parris Island Marine Corps Recruit Depot and are now assigned to units there or nearby Beaufort Marine Corps Air Station. The team last week met with scores of Marines at Camp Pendleton, Calif., and is collecting samples and health and medical data from the nearly 2,900 Marines who participated in the “COVID-19 Health Action Response for Marines” (CHARM) study.
The longitudinal prospective study is looking at the risks of infection after development of antibodies, created either from exposure to the coronavirus or after vaccination, among young, healthy people. The initial study began in May 2020, after the Marine Corps asked the Silver Spring, Md.-based NMRC to help find ways to sustain recruit training amid the pandemic.
The CHARM study of nearly 3,100 recruits found that those who tested positive for the virus could still be reinfected later, and at a lower rate than someone who’d never been exposed to the virus.
Full article: https://federallabs.org/news/nmrc-st...vid-19-effects
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06-14-2021, 12:15 AM
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#30
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gone traveling
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 538
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Even mild infections have a higher death rate within 6 months... so I still want to avoid getting it.
The Nature study is at
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03553-9
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/949862
Study: COVID-19 Can Kill Months After Infection
Ralph Ellis, Brenda Goodman, MA
April*23,*2021

Long-haul COVID-19 patients face many health threats — including a higher chance of dying — up to 6 months after they catch the virus, according to a massive study published in the journal Nature.
A second study, released by the CDC on Friday, also found lingering symptoms months later among COVID-19 patients who originally had mild symptoms.
For the Nature*study, researchers examined more than 87,000 COVID-19 patients and nearly 5 million control patients in a federal database. They found COVID-19 patients had a 59% higher risk of death up to 6 months after infection, compared to noninfected people.
Those findings translate into about eight extra deaths per 1000 patients over 6 months, because many deaths caused by long-term COVID complications are not recorded as COVID-19 deaths, the researchers said.
Among patients who were hospitalized and died after more than 30 days, there were 29 excess deaths per 1000 patients over 6 months.
"As far as total pandemic death toll, these numbers suggest that the deaths we're counting due to the immediate viral infection are only the tip of the iceberg,"
snip
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