Tough dinner conversation with adult live-in daughter

[MrsHaloFIRE]

Your house, your rules. She can adapt her lifestyle or her living location. Either is fine

[Nemo2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amethyst The situation is further muddied by changing social norms that surround "still living at home at 26." People my age, when we were 26, saw this in a different light than those who are 26 today.

I was gone at 17...today, from drive-by collective empirical observation of that cohort, it appears that the level of thinking that one knows it all has, (contradictorily and amusingly), risen in tandem with dependency.

[JustCurious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo2 Where did this misconception that life is, or ever was, 'fair' come from anyway?

Your point is well taken the life is often unfair. But I think it's reasonable to expect fair treatment from family members.

[Nemo2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustCurious But I think it's reasonable to expect fair treatment from family members.

As long as it's reciprocated, and the parameters & circumstances are fully understood by all parties.

[ratface]

I love all the minds whirling to find solutions and I thank all of you. Lots of food for thought. I do accept responsibility for enabling to some degree as my outlook on the shortness and fragility of life dramatically changed 10 years ago with a very serious cancer diagnosis. I remember many of you helping me thru that period and surprised how many remember me. I am aware this also skews my view on covid more than others. My wife and I take it seriously. I relish every moment with my daughter. We are in fact a very close family and I could not fathom being isolated from her without visits. Those could be managed with some precautions.

This all happened rather suddenly. It seems she and her cohorts were really trying but fatigue is wearing on us all. She is also in the minority of living at home so her friends have much more freedom. That said I do see some immaturity as mentioned by some, or perhaps just lack of significant life experience as we all know bad things do happen to good people in life.

Her new job just happened, it's the start of a new school year and she was hired a week into the start of this year after an unbelievable amount of job searching. The decision to move out early 2021 just seemed logical, it's the year of the unknown and she was just trying to get settled financially. We have been working on that, moving retirement accounts and opening new ones. She really is a great saver, well organized and likes things to make sense on paper. I am beginning to see some positives coming her way as this may be the impetus that was needed all along.

[Rianne]

We live in an university community. 50,000 students are on campus right now. They get tested twice a week and are not allowed to enter any university building without their cell app that shows they tested negative. Our dorms are open as well.

These kids go home to their families. I just don’t know how families deal with this. We’re using the saliva test and get results very quickly. The infection rate is .3% on campus.

OP, thousands of families are walking on egg shells during this time. We don’t have kids, but I won’t go near my 20 something nieces and nephews. Meaning close contact of course. I don’t think there is one right answer. This is a big issue with grade/high school children as well, who are in school in our community. Teachers, parents, bus drivers...everyone is taking risk. Actually one of the bus drivers got COVID and passed away in a nearby town.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brat Start looking for a studio for her to move to, ideally one close to her place of employment. Tell her that her behavior puts you and her mother at risk so rather than her living a life of regret she must find a separate place to live for the next 24 months. If cost is an issue consider funding it for a couple hundred. I remember my Mother saying: "Finish your education, get a job and a place of your own. Until then you live by my rules."

Gosh, a long term stay hotel is even an option if she wants her social life unencumbered!

[DenverGuy42]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex I think you have two issues and they are not related...... Issue #1....Fear of Corona Virus....According to the CDC, the survival rate for folks 69 or lower is 99%.....You certainly need to make your own decision on that but not sure that means no-one in your home can socialize....Again, your decision but check out the science. Issue #2....Daughter living w/you.....That's a tough one and if it is your house, it's your rules. This may be the time for your daughter to decide to move on..... I'd work thru them as two issues. Good luck...both issues are tough and there is no right answer...just decisions.

Yes, let's check out the science.

There is death as a possible outcome, that is for sure. The IFR (infected fatality rate, % of death per estimated infected) varies in that age group by geography widely but let's say it is "just" 1% (or at least 5 to 10 times that of the flu).

The existence of pre-existing conditions (someone mentioned the poster may have fought cancer previously, that leaves you with a weakened immune system) will cause that number to rise, but for grin's - let's go with "just" 1%. (I don't know about you, but if someone told me that on my overseas flight, 3-4 people would die each time randomly, I'm not so sure I would have flown like I used to).

How about hospitalizations. People in their age group make up about 33% of the hospitalizations (https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_5.html). We have a lot of people in the hospital - hospital capacity is the reason we had stay at home orders and the continuing mask orders, we were and are at risk of overwhelming their capacity. Everything we are doing is to keep hospitalizations down so we can attempt to treat those that need it (don't need repeats of NYC or worse - Italy).

If you make it to the hospital and don't die - you are OK right? Wrong.
While you focus on IFR (because death is non-reversible), we should not forget that people that get hospitalized face a really hard road to recovery.

Once you have to be hospitalized - you run a very high risk of long term issues. How long term? We don't know yet because many people that got them back in March still have them.

this is just one sample article of thousands. search around for "long haulers" and ask yourself - would you like to spend your time in such a state as these people find themselves in? My son got lyme disease, the effects of which are a lot like many of those described by long haulers. It is quite simply life changing for him. It's been many years and he is still very slowing "getting better", I put that in quotes - because I don't think he'll ever be the same.

https://abc13.com/covid-19-hospitali...fects/6872459/

> A new study released this week, found **one-third of hospitalized COVID-19 patients develop a brain disease** caused by inflammation in the brain.

> Dr. Gustavo Roman, Professor of neurology at Houston Methodist, said the deadly virus can cause a variety of long term health effects to several organs which can lead to chronic illness, headaches, fatigue, and prolonged loss in taste and smell.

> "The damage has been made and we don't know how long it's going to last," Dr. Roman said. "It is a virus that has multiple weapons that affect the blood vessels, the lungs, the brain. **It can produce stroke, heart attacks, and a number of combinations. It can affect the kidney and the liver so it is a very dangerous enemy.**"

> Dr. Roman said the best line of defense is prevention.



so, while death might not be the outcome, a long term disability affecting the brain, the heart, the lungs and other organs exists.


so yes, agreed 100% - check the science and be aware that death is only but one possible outcome. There are other extremely undesirable outcomes as well.


that and a 26 year old is a fully grown adult, capable of reason and logic - and capable of finding roommates to move out with and "live the life".

[ivinsfan]

It isn't even really about the science...if the OP and spouse want to isolate it's call..let's now get into masks or long haulers here.

A lot of people are going to face this how much exposure am I comfortable with concerning family issue as we go into the holiday season.

[EveryLady]

I am in a similar situation. My daughter a college student senior lives / lived at home while she attends a city university. I'm now 67. Her classes are online at this time but she has an in-person internship for two days a week in a high-risk setting. We made the decision early last summer that she would need to relocate. That was the only way 'out.' Whatever money is spent is more than worth it to not (1) endanger personal relationships or (2) endanger health.

Once that's accepted as the solution, the problem then shifted to the locale. DD ended up moving into an apartment with her boyfriend who just got his first professional job. But if needed she would have shared with a complete stranger. Or got a room in a YWCA-like facility for young female interns.

Until my daughter left, she social distanced from her boyfriend and others. There was a night last March when I realized our quarantining with the boyfriend was not going to work. DD was horrified. I shed tears. She realized the next morning her reaction was excessive. From that time forward, she was totally on-board - not a complaint or frown about the endless months to come with mom. Knowing there was an end-date - that she would be leaving for a place we were then searching for probably helped.

[DenverGuy42]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan It isn't even really about the science...

yeah, it sort of is about the science.

If the science said "this is a nothing burger, you are not going to suffer at all from this" - as people are wont to say - then the advice would be different.

However the science doesn't say that at all. The best defense is prevention (and yeah, that includes masks, social distancing, not going to restaurants, avoiding crowds in general - they are all fair game). And a grown up 26 year old can either play ball at home with mom and dad in charge - or get roommates and live the life they want to live.

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverGuy42 yeah, it sort of is about the science. If the science said "this is a nothing burger, you are not going to suffer at all from this" - as people are wont to say - then the advice would be different. However the science doesn't say that at all. The best defense is prevention (and yeah, that includes masks, social distancing, not going to restaurants, avoiding crowds in general - they are all fair game). And a grown up 26 year old can either play ball at home with mom and dad in charge - or get roommates and live the life they want to live.

What I meant was the OP doesn't need to use science to justify his wishes to stay isolated, it's his decision....

[DenverGuy42]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan What I meant was the OP doesn't need to use science to justify his wishes to stay isolated, it's his decision....

oh, sorry about that. thought it was in reference to the post right above yours...

[harllee]

Looking at it from the 26 year old daughter's prospective--how would she feel if she gave the virus to a parent and they died or suffered a severe long lasting illness. True story--A friend of mine in his 40s went to a work event early in the summer--no mask, no social distancing. He got Covid but had no symptoms. He had dinner with his father (in his 60s). Father caught Covid from him and within a few days died. My friend later learned that the work event was a "super spreader" and many people there caught the virus, including my friend, who never had any symptoms. All this happened several months ago and now my friend is having terrible guilt and is in therapy.

[Walt34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Reader At 26, I would tell her that it's time to move out of my house if she can't follow some basic, common sense safety rules.

+1

We have already had this issue arise in family. Fortunately they live on the other side of the Chesapeake Bay from us so no direct contact. Airheaded bimbo college-age niece comes home for a break, shortly afterward comes down with COVID-19 and exposes visiting 86-year-old aunt, who then has to go back to the nursing home and endure two weeks of isolation in a room (not even her normal room) with two books, a TV, and a telephone. Better than solitary in prison, but barely.

I'd tell the selfish college kid to grow up and move out. NOW. She wants to "live her life"? Fine. She can deal with all the complexities that come with it, including how to pay for it.

[brett]

I do not think that this is a very difficult issue.

This is about a 26 year old working adult. Not a dependent child.

I really like the straightforward and common sense approach. Let your daughter make the decision. She either follows your rules or moves out. What is so difficult with that? Just say those few words. Why on earth put your health and well being at risk for the sake of a fear of plain speaking?

At 26, she is probably due to move out on her own or in with a friend.

Don't place this on your shoulders. This is her problem. Don't let her make it your problem.

[brett]

dup

[Navigator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brett I do not think that this is a very difficult issue. This is about a 26 year old working adult. Not a dependent child. I really like the straightforward and common sense approach. Let your daughter make the decision. She either follows your rules or moves out. What is so difficult with that? Just say those few words. Why on earth put your health and well being at risk for the sake of a fear of plain speaking? At 26, she is probably due to move out on her own or in with a friend. Don't place this on your shoulders. This is her problem. Don't let her make it your problem.

+1

[Walt34]

Another thought comes to mind as well to tell her:

"I am not willing to risk my and my wife's lives so that you can go out and party."

[Brat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewis Clark +1 I saw a great saying online somewhere near the start of the plague. Might have been ER.org. Something like: "Your grandparents were called to war. You are being called to sit at home on the couch. You can do this and it isn't hard."

That was me responding to my high school freshman grandson's whine. It is tough for youth but so is donning a uniform and fighting in a war.

The OP and his wife need to agree on a tough-love ultimatum for this daughter.