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Unvaccinated, anti-vax relatives
06-16-2021, 01:10 PM
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#1
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,581
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Unvaccinated, anti-vax relatives
Of the several dozen friends and family that DGF and I have invited to our wedding later this summer, we know of four who have not gotten and will not be getting their COVID vaccine shots. They are firmly in the anti-vax camp, at least when it comes to COVID-19.
We would very much like to have these folks at the wedding, based on long-standing, harmonious family ties and good relations, but we also are trying to ensure the wedding is safe for everyone. The wedding event will be primarily outdoors, which is safer than the alternative, but we are concerned that these anti-vaxxers will be freely mixing, mingling, and (potentially) spreading their germs around to everyone. There will be several folks in their 80s, fully vaccinated, but somewhat vulnerable due to immunosenescence (based on various things I've heard).
What would you do in this situation? Talk to the anti-vaxxers and try to convince them to get vaccinated for the sake of everyone else at the wedding? Tell them they aren't welcome if they haven't been vaccinated, and then live with the acrimony and fallout? Say nothing and just hope for the best? Or, some other strategy/approach that could address the situation?
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06-16-2021, 04:08 PM
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#2
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: City
Posts: 10,308
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I think the answer is clear. You are talking about deciding to involuntarily potentially expose all of your wedding guests versus reducing the exposure risk by excluding four people and possibly creating some hard feelings. No one has ever died from hard feelings.
If you were talking about a small party with just you and the four, then the risk tradeoff is totally yours to make. That's a totally different situation than you having to make a risk decision for all of your guests that could have consequences for some of them.
__________________
Ignoramus et ignorabimus
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06-16-2021, 04:13 PM
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#3
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldShooter
I think the answer is clear. You are talking about deciding to involuntarily potentially exposé all of your wedding guests versus reducing the exposure risk by excluding four people and possibly creating some hard feelings. No one has ever died from hard feelings.
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+1
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06-16-2021, 04:18 PM
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#4
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 3,652
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We started up our breakfast group of 5 older guys. The one antivaxer was not in the email loop. We don't want him there. If he was vaccinated we would welcome him.
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06-16-2021, 04:18 PM
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#5
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gone traveling
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourner
What would you do in this situation?
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Elope
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06-16-2021, 04:22 PM
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#6
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,581
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06-16-2021, 04:24 PM
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#7
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Spending the Kids Inheritance and living in Chicago
Posts: 16,973
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I think the other issue is , unless this wedding is Adults only , there are likely to be children present.
They will not be vaccinated (most likely).
What is the decision about them ?
Also, the risk is to the anti-vaxers as well, since now hospitals report 95%->98% of new covid cases are non-vaccinated people.
Add in the more transmissible Delta variant, and this wedding is going to be dicey.
__________________
Fortune favors the prepared mind. ... Louis Pasteur
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06-16-2021, 04:24 PM
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#8
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 16,543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldShooter
I think the answer is clear. You are talking about deciding to involuntarily potentially expose all of your wedding guests versus reducing the exposure risk by excluding four people and possibly creating some hard feelings. No one has ever died from hard feelings.
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+2
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06-16-2021, 04:29 PM
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#9
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldShooter
I think the answer is clear. You are talking about deciding to involuntarily potentially expose all of your wedding guests versus reducing the exposure risk by excluding four people and possibly creating some hard feelings. No one has ever died from hard feelings.
If you were talking about a small party with just you and the four, then the risk tradeoff is totally yours to make. That's a totally different situation than you having to make a risk decision for all of your guests that could have consequences for some of them.
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Thanks, this is the position I am leaning towards. But I worry that some of these folks may take my "zero tolerance" stance as a deal breaker for our future relationship. That would make me very sad, as a few of them have been very close to me and my family over the years, and I would hate to see those relationships suffer and die.
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06-16-2021, 04:32 PM
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#10
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 7,515
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I think I would invite them. They are the ones taking the risk, and they have that choice. Risk with the kids is exceedingly low.
We all encounter unvaccinated people every day. My family are all vaccinated. But I would not cause what could be a longstanding rift over this matter.
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06-16-2021, 04:35 PM
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#11
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: City
Posts: 10,308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourner
Thanks, this is the position I am leaning towards. But I worry that some of these folks may take my "zero tolerance" stance as a deal breaker for our future relationship. That would make me very sad, as a few of them have been very close to me and my family over the years, and I would hate to see those relationships suffer and die.
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I would tell them exactly that and hope that they are listening. What you are doing is not "zero tolerance" at all; you are answering the classic ethics question: What is the greatest good for the greatest number?
__________________
Ignoramus et ignorabimus
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06-16-2021, 04:36 PM
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#12
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: City
Posts: 10,308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montecfo
... They are the ones taking the risk ...
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Factually untrue.
__________________
Ignoramus et ignorabimus
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06-16-2021, 04:40 PM
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#13
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldShooter
I think the answer is clear. You are talking about deciding to involuntarily potentially expose all of your wedding guests versus reducing the exposure risk by excluding four people and possibly creating some hard feelings. No one has ever died from hard feelings.
If you were talking about a small party with just you and the four, then the risk tradeoff is totally yours to make. That's a totally different situation than you having to make a risk decision for all of your guests that could have consequences for some of them.
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This.
__________________
"Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for." - Epicurus
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06-16-2021, 04:48 PM
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#14
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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Have you tried explaining your concerns (which seems to be mostly about the very old guests) to them? If they are the nice, close people you say they are, they will suck it up and say "OK, we're sorry but we won't hold it against you, have a wonderful time."
If they can't do that, or if they get all, "Well! If your vaccine is so great, then y'all are protected and we can't hurt you!" then you are giving the relationship too much credit, I'd say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourner
Thanks, this is the position I am leaning towards. But I worry that some of these folks may take my "zero tolerance" stance as a deal breaker for our future relationship. That would make me very sad, as a few of them have been very close to me and my family over the years, and I would hate to see those relationships suffer and die.
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__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success – to be able to spend your life in your own way.’ Christopher Morley.
Even a blind clock finds an acorn twice a day.
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06-16-2021, 04:51 PM
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#15
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourner
Thanks, this is the position I am leaning towards. But I worry that some of these folks may take my "zero tolerance" stance as a deal breaker for our future relationship. That would make me very sad, as a few of them have been very close to me and my family over the years, and I would hate to see those relationships suffer and die.
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Thinking about this some more ...
There is a technique called "absent authority" negotiation. Without going into detail I'll just suggest that you tell your friends that you consulted your doctor on this question and that he told you that you should not include them. (I doesn't matter whether you talked to your doctor or not, or even if you have a doctor.)
__________________
Ignoramus et ignorabimus
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06-16-2021, 04:52 PM
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#16
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Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 14,140
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Tough situation.
Could you put a small asterisk at the bottom of the invitation requesting that all guests over age 12 be vaccinated if they plan to attend. That puts the onus on your friend to decide if they want to come (and to go get vaccinated) or decide they don't want to attend. It will be their decision.
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06-16-2021, 04:54 PM
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#17
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset
I think the other issue is , unless this wedding is Adults only , there are likely to be children present. They will not be vaccinated (most likely). What is the decision about them?
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Good question. There will be a few kids until 12 there, unvaccinated of course. I suspect their presence won't be too big of an issue, since they won't be interacting much (for extended periods) with the elderly folks... at least that's my hope. Lots of considerations to juggle here, probably no way to come up with a solution that meets everyone's needs and preferences.
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06-16-2021, 04:57 PM
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#18
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourner
What would you do in this situation?
Or, some other strategy/approach that could address the situation?
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We go to stores, restaurants, doctors offices, post office, banks, movies, church, parties, casinos, etc, etc, etc... I have no idea who's been vaccinated or not... "As an older guy myself" I've been vaccinated and I'm just not going to worry about it anymore... However, in this case, I may forgo the tradition of "kissing" the bride...
BUT, since this is your event, you might go an extra step and mention it to the people you are most concerned about that some attending may not have been vaccinated, if it makes you feel better about the situation. If you are really that concerned, then add a footnote on the invitation.
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20's "something" mind, trapped in a 70's "something" body
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06-16-2021, 05:02 PM
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#19
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 25,290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodi
Could you put a small asterisk at the bottom of the invitation requesting that all guests over age 12 be vaccinated if they plan to attend. That puts the onus on your friend to decide if they want to come (and to go get vaccinated) or decide they don't want to attend. It will be their decision.
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This, only I would make it an absolute nonnegotiable requirement, not a request.
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When I was a kid I wanted to be older. This is not what I expected.
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06-16-2021, 05:02 PM
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#20
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldShooter
There is a technique called "absent authority" negotiation. Without going into detail I'll just suggest that you tell your friends that you consulted your doctor on this question and that he told you that you should not include them. (I doesn't matter whether you talked to your doctor or not, or even if you have a doctor.)
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This is a great idea, thanks! There are two elderly folks I'm most concerned about, and it would be easy for me to say (to the anti-vaccination guests) that after consulting with both of their doctors, we feel it would be quite dangerous to expose them to unvaccinated adults at the wedding.
And then, as @Amethyst said, it will be on them to decide whether to proceed in a considerate, thoughtful, and kind manner or to take a more belligerent stance.
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