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Old 11-09-2020, 12:46 PM   #121
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It would sound like this specific vaccine, with the production plan and temperature limits, would still take a while to reach most of the non-vulnerable population in the US, ie, the back half of 2021.

But there are two other things I can read into the new:

1 - if one works, chances are more will as well. This could be the first of a few. And in combination they might improve the time-to-market for everyone. Maybe we can't all get the 90% one right away, but others will come along...probably.

2 - with the promise of light-and-the-end-of-the tunnel, many folks might get over their covid-fatigue, and resume/improve their personal mitigation efforts, helping to drive down infection rates. It's one thing to say "well I have to live my life" when there's no end in sight, but entirely another when it's a matter of waiting months vs. years.
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Old 11-09-2020, 01:17 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Popeye View Post
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/09/covi...infection.html

From another article on the same vaccine. Itís looking like a safe, highly effective, fast acting solution. The big remaining question will be how long the protection lasts.
I'd guess at least to the time recommended between doses.
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Old 11-09-2020, 01:18 PM   #123
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Yes this is extremely encouraging for all the vaccine candidates based on this mRNA technology or actual synthetic spike protein injection like the Novavax method.

There was no mention yet about differences in disease severity but I expect they will find much milder cases and better outcomes in the 10% that still get infected even after being vaccinated.

Still awaiting the cheap antibody test to functionally unblind DW and me. With the positive Pfizer results, I now think we WILL reduce our caution if it turns out we both have IgG antibodies. Fingers crossed for indoor pickleball this winter!
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Old 11-09-2020, 01:19 PM   #124
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Excellent. Now if we can let the scientific and public health systems function, we might be on to something.
Not understanding. Why wouldn't they be functioning?
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Old 11-09-2020, 01:22 PM   #125
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The real question now will be distribution. I would vote for healthcare workers exclusively, then seniors in long-term care.
I get healthcare workers, but I'd put groups that are more likely to spread the virus ahead of those confined to very limited space. For example, aren't young adults the biggest spreading group?
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Old 11-09-2020, 01:35 PM   #126
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The real question now will be distribution. I would vote for healthcare workers exclusively, then seniors in long-term care.
It will probably be professional athletes first. They seem to get all of what they need (PPE, testing with quick turn around, etc.) at the drop of a hat, helmet or mask.
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Old 11-09-2020, 02:48 PM   #127
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I don't know one thing about drug or vaccine manufacturing, but what is the likelihood that Pfizer will license to other pharmas to help turning out more vaccine doses?

And with the virus mutation as has been reported, the chance may be high that this will become a maintenance thing, unlike chickenpox or polio vaccine.

I am a capitalist at heart, and believe money is a good (the best?) motivator for people to crank out vaccine doses. Let them make money. I will pay for my shots.
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Old 11-09-2020, 03:16 PM   #128
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My order of priority would be this:

1. Healthcare workers (MDs, RNs, EMTs etc.)
2. Public Safety workers (fire and police)
3. Other essential workers who necessarily have close contact with many people (Transit workers, teachers, grocery store clerks)
4. Elderly people in congregate settings.
5. Anyone with impaired immune system.
6. Everyone else by inverse order of age.

As a category 6, I would expect to receive a vaccine sometime next summer.
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Old 11-09-2020, 03:34 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
My order of priority would be this:

1. Healthcare workers (MDs, RNs, EMTs etc.)
2. Public Safety workers (fire and police)
3. Other essential workers who necessarily have close contact with many people (Transit workers, teachers, grocery store clerks)
4. Elderly people in congregate settings.
5. Anyone with impaired immune system.
6. Everyone else by inverse order of age.

As a category 6, I would expect to receive a vaccine sometime next summer.
Sounds reasonable.
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Old 11-09-2020, 03:39 PM   #130
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I get healthcare workers, but I'd put groups that are more likely to spread the virus ahead of those confined to very limited space. For example, aren't young adults the biggest spreading group?
These vaccines prevent people from getting very sick, not from getting infected. Even the vaccinated can spread the disease. That is why 'herd immunity' is impossible. The human herd is not corralled, there will always be a significant portion that has not been vaccinated.

We all should continue to wear masks until all who don't wish to get sick have been vaccinated. The rest... well your choice, your consequences.

Oh, as someone mentioned there are several vaccines well along in testing. J&J has one that doesn't require refrigeration and reports I have heard is just as effective in preventing disease with one injection.
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Old 11-09-2020, 04:13 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
My order of priority would be this:

1. Healthcare workers (MDs, RNs, EMTs etc.)
2. Public Safety workers (fire and police)
3. Other essential workers who necessarily have close contact with many people (Transit workers, teachers, grocery store clerks)
4. Elderly people in congregate settings.
5. Anyone with impaired immune system.
6. Everyone else by inverse order of age.

As a category 6, I would expect to receive a vaccine sometime next summer.
I agree with this ranking, or something close to it. Being an old codger, but in what I consider very good health, I have absolutely no problem with keeping up with the same precautions I've been following all along. I'm perfectly happy maintaining this degree of isolation from the world, so give the protection to those who don't have my flexibility.
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Old 11-09-2020, 05:59 PM   #132
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I think there is an advisory panel of some sort in the US that has already published their recommendations and categories for vaccine distribution.

My DM's physician mentioned it to me when we were in a few weeks ago and said that she would be in phase 1.

I googled this upon returning home and was able to find the group and the recommendation that was consistent with the physician's comments.

I believe it was the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine who are authoring the report.

-gauss
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Old 11-09-2020, 06:06 PM   #133
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These vaccines prevent people from getting very sick, not from getting infected. Even the vaccinated can spread the disease. That is why 'herd immunity' is impossible. The human herd is not corralled, there will always be a significant portion that has not been vaccinated.

We all should continue to wear masks until all who don't wish to get sick have been vaccinated. The rest... well your choice, your consequences.

Oh, as someone mentioned there are several vaccines well along in testing. J&J has one that doesn't require refrigeration and reports I have heard is just as effective in preventing disease with one injection.
Do you have a cite for these claims?
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Old 11-09-2020, 06:16 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Brat View Post
These vaccines prevent people from getting very sick, not from getting infected. Even the vaccinated can spread the disease. That is why 'herd immunity' is impossible. The human herd is not corralled, there will always be a significant portion that has not been vaccinated.

We all should continue to wear masks until all who don't wish to get sick have been vaccinated. The rest... well your choice, your consequences.
This hits on a question I haven’t heard or read enough to answer. If you have anti-bodies either from a recent infection or from a vaccine, and you come in contact with the virus, do the antibodies kill off the virus before you are “infected” or do you just recover rapidly ?
Forget COVID, if you get measles vaccine you don’t “catch” measles. Shouldn’t it be the same for COVID ?
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Old 11-10-2020, 05:47 AM   #135
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This hits on a question I havenít heard or read enough to answer. If you have anti-bodies either from a recent infection or from a vaccine, and you come in contact with the virus, do the antibodies kill off the virus before you are ďinfectedĒ or do you just recover rapidly ?
Forget COVID, if you get measles vaccine you donít ďcatchĒ measles. Shouldnít it be the same for COVID ?

Just watched a piece on CNBC that talked about this a bit. The subject was a doctor answering questions about the new treatment being approved and the Pfizer news.



The Dr talked about being able to get antibodies into the nose and throat where the virus enters the body and how difficult it is. I can't repeat all his points, he said there is a difference between a vaccine that gets the antibodies to throat and nose and antibodies that kills the invaders, and a vaccine that helps the body kill off the infection once it is in the body. So there is a difference between the infectious particles and the infection that they can produce. Different vaccines will have different effect on the 2 distinct problem areas.



This is to say there is validity to the point about a vaccine not keeping you from contracting the disease but preparing your immune system to defeat it once you have contracted it. Either way prevent or swift response it is an interesting topic.
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Old 11-10-2020, 06:17 AM   #136
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Just hearing news of another antibody approval from Lilly. Targeted to early in the disease and it is an infusion so it will be administered only by health care personnel.

From Lilly at https://investor.lilly.com/news-rele...5-receives-fda

Quote:
INDIANAPOLIS, Nov. 9, 2020 /PRNewswire/ -- The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) today granted Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for Eli Lilly and Company's (NYSE: LLY) investigational neutralizing antibody bamlanivimab (LY-CoV555) 700 mg. Bamlanivimab is authorized for the treatment of mild to moderate COVID-19 in adults and pediatric patients 12 years and older with a positive COVID-19 test, who are at high risk for progressing to severe COVID-19 and/or hospitalization. Bamlanivimab should be administered as soon as possible after a positive COVID-19 test and within 10 days of symptom onset. The authorization allows for the distribution and emergency use of bamlanivimab, which is administered via a single intravenous infusion.

More great news, but the name, what is up with that
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Old 11-10-2020, 07:19 AM   #137
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Bamlanivimab: Well the terminal mab part of the name indicates that it is a monoclonal antibody. Can’t say much for the rest of it. I’m not sure I can even say that!

So that’s a treatment rather than a preventative (not a vaccine). From what I’m reading monoclonal antibodies are difficult to produce in large quantities.
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Old 11-10-2020, 07:42 AM   #138
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Bamlanivimab: Well the terminal mab part of the name indicates that it is a monoclonal antibody. Canít say much for the rest of it. Iím not sure I can even say that!


So thatís a treatment rather than a preventative (not a vaccine). From what Iím reading monoclonal antibodies are difficult to produce in large quantities.
Talking heads are asking how to distribute limited quantities, to your 2d point.

I heard you have to be able to pronounce the name correctly before administration as a way to ration the limited quantities - JOKING

On Pfizer, HHS Secretary just on said the contract with Pfizer is for 20M doses a month. He expects to have enough to be doing general population by March/April, with Pfizer and other vaccines combined. Also stated that the individual governors will be responsible or deciding where treatments and vaccines are sent.
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Old 11-10-2020, 09:18 AM   #139
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I'd pronounce bam-lan-i-vi-mab with the same cadence as bop-bop-a-lu-bop (alop-bam-boom).

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Bamlanivimab: Well the terminal mab part of the name indicates that it is a monoclonal antibody. Canít say much for the rest of it. Iím not sure I can even say that!

So thatís a treatment rather than a preventative (not a vaccine). From what Iím reading monoclonal antibodies are difficult to produce in large quantities.
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Old 11-10-2020, 09:22 AM   #140
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Me, I'd pronounce it Yabba Dabba Doo, since it might lead to being sur la rue encore.
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