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Old 11-10-2020, 12:58 PM   #141
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Bamlanivimab: Well the terminal mab part of the name indicates that it is a monoclonal antibody. Can’t say much for the rest of it. I’m not sure I can even say that!

So that’s a treatment rather than a preventative (not a vaccine). From what I’m reading monoclonal antibodies are difficult to produce in large quantities.
I think it just needs a cool number like "Cure 28". Seems to work for Product 19 cereal, 409 cleaner and WD-40.
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Old 11-10-2020, 01:40 PM   #142
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Do you have a cite for these claims?
Yes, there is a YouTube/Podcast titled This Week in Virology hosted by a virologist at Columbia University who was a part of the development of the polio vaccine. Several other virologists and a physician converse, they post weekly - usually on a Sunday. Look for episode 675 from a couple of weeks back with the title that includes 'herd'. https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/.
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Old 11-10-2020, 01:47 PM   #143
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Me, I'd pronounce it Yabba Dabba Doo, since it might lead to being sur la rue encore.
Yabba Dabba Doo?? What language is that ??

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Old 11-10-2020, 02:10 PM   #144
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Yabba Dabba Doo?? What language is that ??
Flintstonian, if I'm not mistaken.
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Old 11-10-2020, 02:12 PM   #145
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Flintstonian, if I'm not mistaken.
Yup. A leading example of the modern stone age genre.
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Old 11-10-2020, 02:21 PM   #146
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Yabba Dabba Doo?? What language is that ??
Flintstonian:

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Question about multiple vaccines
Old 11-10-2020, 02:22 PM   #147
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Question about multiple vaccines

Hi all.

Mods, feel free to fold this into another thread if it makes sense to do so.

I have a question about multiple coronavirus vaccines.

I'd like to be vaccinated against the coronavirus as best as I possibly can.

It is plausible to me that a situation may arise where the first available vaccine may not ultimately be judged to be the best vaccine. And this judgment will likely not be known for a while.

Is it a viable strategy to get the first available vaccine to be protected sooner, and then get the best vaccine later when that is generally known? Or does getting the first available vaccine somehow limit me from getting the best vaccine later - for whatever reason?

I thought there was sort of a similar situation with shingles vaccines, where the first one was good but the second one (Shingrix) was better. In my case the timing worked out OK, because by the time I needed a shingles vaccine, we already knew that Shingrix was better and so I just got that one. But had the timing been different, I might have gotten the first one instead, and I thought there was some sort of limitation where the people who got the first one had to wait or not get the Shingrix for a while or perhaps ever.

I know we don't know for certain because it's a new virus, but I'm interested in educated guesses from people who know more than I do about vaccines and viruses and stuff and can make inferences from what we do know.

Thank you.
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Old 11-10-2020, 03:41 PM   #148
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Hi all.

Mods, feel free to fold this into another thread if it makes sense to do so.

I have a question about multiple coronavirus vaccines.

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Old 11-10-2020, 03:52 PM   #149
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Is it a viable strategy to get the first available vaccine to be protected sooner, and then get the best vaccine later when that is generally known? Or does getting the first available vaccine somehow limit me from getting the best vaccine later - for whatever reason?
I think we are a long way off from having to think about options. And I'm sure once the average consumer is in a position to make a decision our doctors will have that info.

Or even when only the first one is out of the gate, by the time any of us gets to roll up our sleeves there will be plenty of info on the one that's coming out second, and then if it's worth it to wait or not.

It could very likely be this becomes an annual/seasonal shot too, vs. one and done (or, two and done ala shingrix). But no one knows any of that with any certainty yet.
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Old 11-11-2020, 09:02 AM   #150
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The nurse that gave our regular flu vaccine mentioned that it wasn't a problem to mix the two shingles vaccines, which implied to me mixing might not always be approved.

If one were highly curious and/or adept at reading FDA applications, you could research whether the population used in the phase 3 for the newer shingles shot included people who had the earlier shot. That would indicate a higher bar for stacking vaccines, so make it a better strategic move to get a good Covid vaccine at the start. But except for who to blame or credit, my non-doctor opinion is that there wouldn't be any problem stacking; from my rudimentary knowledge of the mechanism, no likely harmful interactions. Good question.
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Old 11-11-2020, 09:15 AM   #151
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Interesting question on the multiple vaccine scenario. Here’s another thought. So if you’re in a higher risk group, you may get priority. If a second option comes along shortly after that, should you get it before everyone in lower risk groups has had a chance at a vaccination of some kind? In my mind, everyone should get a chance at one before folks start doubling up.
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Old 11-11-2020, 09:30 AM   #152
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Just hearing news of another antibody approval from Lilly. Targeted to early in the disease and it is an infusion so it will be administered only by health care personnel.

From Lilly at https://investor.lilly.com/news-rele...5-receives-fda

More great news, but the name, what is up with that
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Bamlanivimab: Well the terminal mab part of the name indicates that it is a monoclonal antibody. Can’t say much for the rest of it. I’m not sure I can even say that!

So that’s a treatment rather than a preventative (not a vaccine). From what I’m reading monoclonal antibodies are difficult to produce in large quantities.

Yes, Bamlanivimab ( what a name!) is an antibody. On the other hand Pfizer/BioNTech product is a true vaccine, which uses mRNA to cause the human body to produce the required antibody.

To a layman like myself, the end result is the same, but the difference is perhaps that of lasting effects. An injected antibody may not last as long as what the human body has learned to produce by itself. Both are extremely beneficial.

And by the way, another biotech company called Moderna also has a vaccine using mRNA. And it also has conducted trial on 30,000 participants. Results will be released later this month. Its stock price has already gone through the roof, but I did not follow this sector to even notice.

PS. The vaccine candidate by Pfizer/BioNTech is observed to produce higher level of antibody in tested subjects than in the bloodstream of recovered Covid patients. Older tested subjects produced lesser level of antibody than young subjects. I guess that makes sense, because old people have a weaker immune response.
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Old 11-11-2020, 09:34 AM   #153
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I thought there was some sort of limitation where the people who got the first one had to wait or not get the Shingrix for a while or perhaps ever.
No - you can get both Shingrix vaccines. We got both years apart. Shingrix wasn’t available yet when we got the first one, and very quickly people were told that it was fine to also get the second - in fact it was recommended.
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Old 11-11-2020, 11:36 AM   #154
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MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia’s Sputnik V vaccine is 92% effective at protecting people from COVID-19 according to interim trial results, the country’s sovereign wealth fund said on Wednesday, as Moscow rushes to keep pace with Western drugmakers in the race for a shot.
https://www.reuters.com/article/heal...-idUSKBN27R0ZA

I don’t know whether this goes under good news or just “my vaccine is better than yours!” They had to go two percentage points higher than Pfizer. They just couldn’t resist.
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Old 11-11-2020, 11:54 AM   #155
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I get healthcare workers, but I'd put groups that are more likely to spread the virus ahead of those confined to very limited space. For example, aren't young adults the biggest spreading group?
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It will probably be professional athletes first. They seem to get all of what they need (PPE, testing with quick turn around, etc.) at the drop of a hat, helmet or mask.
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I vote for ME! As a cancer patient, my chemo has my immune system near zero. My WBC is below 500, normal is above 1500 with average about 2000. I'm instructed to not even shave as a nick could open me to an infection. I'm willing to arm wrestle for place in line!
However, I live in California where the governor is 'protecting' us from the political aspects of the vaccine. He won't allow distribution until his own select 11 person panel has completed the same tests the rest of the world already proves. Could be months after it's world release before we are able to get it. I think if that does happen, I'll have to make a road trip....
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My order of priority would be this:

1. Healthcare workers (MDs, RNs, EMTs etc.)
2. Public Safety workers (fire and police)
3. Other essential workers who necessarily have close contact with many people (Transit workers, teachers, grocery store clerks)
4. Elderly people in congregate settings.
5. Anyone with impaired immune system.
6. Everyone else by inverse order of age.

As a category 6, I would expect to receive a vaccine sometime next summer.
Yes that is a good start at a comprehensive list. Of course there are omissions. like dentists, elected representatives...

I would qualify for category 5 but I would vote for skipro33 to be well ahead of me.

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No - you can get both Shingrix vaccines. We got both years apart. Shingrix wasn’t available yet when we got the first one, and very quickly people were told that it was fine to also get the second - in fact it was recommended.
Shongrix is a good model because it also has to be refridgerated until administered.

Based on my experience with flu shot and pneumonia shot this year (bad), I am quite concerned about rollout.
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Old 11-11-2020, 12:53 PM   #156
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I
However, I live in California where the governor is 'protecting' us from the political aspects of the vaccine. He won't allow distribution until his own select 11 person panel has completed the same tests the rest of the world already proves. Could be months after it's world release before we are able to get it. I think if that does happen, I'll have to make a road trip....
Same in my state of Washington. The governor has linked us up with other states to clear the vaccine(s) before allowing it to be administered. This scares the heck out of me because it injects another layer of politics, including out-of-state politics, into the timeline for getting the vaccine.
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Old 11-11-2020, 01:45 PM   #157
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https://www.kff.org/other/state-indi...2:%22asc%22%7D

A quick search indicates about 17 million health care workers in the US. I have heard Phyzer will produce about 20 million doses a month. ( No source for that).. Just though this might add some context.
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Old 11-11-2020, 02:12 PM   #158
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I presume that other vaccines will soon be approved so we can add to that count.
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Old 11-11-2020, 02:28 PM   #159
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Hi all.

Mods, feel free to fold this into another thread if it makes sense to do so.

I have a question about multiple coronavirus vaccines.

I'd like to be vaccinated against the coronavirus as best as I possibly can.

It is plausible to me that a situation may arise where the first available vaccine may not ultimately be judged to be the best vaccine. And this judgment will likely not be known for a while.

Is it a viable strategy to get the first available vaccine to be protected sooner, and then get the best vaccine later when that is generally known? Or does getting the first available vaccine somehow limit me from getting the best vaccine later - for whatever reason?
My understanding is that different vaccines are taking different tacks to stop the virus. So regardless of which one is best, I'm guessing that taking multiple vaccine designs will give the best protection. So if A's approach is 90% effective/10% ineffective, and B's different approach is 70/30, I'd judge that A & B together would be like 97% effective/ 3% ineffective (10% x 30% = 3%).
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Old 11-11-2020, 02:29 PM   #160
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I think we are a long way off from having to think about options. And I'm sure once the average consumer is in a position to make a decision our doctors will have that info.
Not sure what a long way off is, but I'm estimating there will multiple available by 2H 2021.
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