Vaccine Trials

[NW-Bound]

At Some point it is like everything else bad that can happen to you. You can take precautions and for a portion of people that will keep you safe and for a portion it isn’t enough. For those that don’t take precautions some will get bit and some won’t. I call it culling the gene pool. I Just trust those that don’t take precautions are a larger number than those that get bit.

Sure. You would hope that the problem will take care of itself.

There's still the same problem as we do with people who text while driving: they cause collateral damage. Not much we can do there, sadly.

 

[RetireBy90]

For me, when I have a close call I get more careful. You would hope that a number of those that were exposed and have a close call start taking precautions or more so. Sometimes not.

 

[NW-Bound]

For me, when I have a close call I get more careful. You would hope that a number of those that were exposed and have a close call start taking precautions or more so. Sometimes not.

Some people who recovered from Covid due to excellent care claimed they felt 20 years younger. Would that not make everyone want to be infected?

 

[gerntz]

Come on....

You get a vaccine and no one but you and your doctor knows it. No there won't be some central public list. So - as a SOCIETY - we keep up mitigation until the infection spread is controlled. No one is going to give special badges to the vaccinated/antibody population to give them a free pass.

You come on. Anyone will know I've had the vaccine when I tell them. That's why you should receive a document. But no reason to bind me up when I have antibodies. Your choice to believe fake documents would be prevalent.

 

[bmcgonig]

The counter-arguement would be that the people in group 1 should be the FIRST to get it so they don't keep spreading it to so many people

There's no reason to believe at this time that the vaccine is a sterilizing vaccine, i.e., prevents you from infecting others, so that probably won't work. Most likely it just prevents you from getting sick.

 

[MrsHaloFIRE]

As far as the comment about institutionalized old ppl not needing the vaccine bc they are "so well separated and protected from society" yada yada. New email from FIL's home today with 6 staff positives. Yes 6. I can't visit bc I will certainly infect everyone with me staying at home 99pct of the time, but the staff are out chasing their bliss on their off time... Please vaccinate the old folks home staff right after the hospital covid ward staff.

 

[sengsational]

I've cued-up this video to a point where you can see what the side effects were in the phase 1 trial of the BioNTech vaccine. It's split into "b1" and "b2", the latter being the one they went with. And it's split into youngs and fogies.

Your arm will almost certainly hurt. And if you have more reaction to it, you'll be in good company (you'll be reacting more like a young person).

https://youtu.be/_jwBxZMWrng?t=672

 

[Amethyst]

That's not what I said. I said that non-institutionalized Old people, who have to go out into the world and be exposed without any protection except wearing masks when many others refuse to do so, should be prioritized before those who do have a measure of protection. And that's all I said.

This virus loves to kill Old people, so there needs to be some prioritization.

As far as the comment about institutionalized old ppl not needing the vaccine bc they are "so well separated and protected from society".

 

[gerntz]

Folks in a facility really aren't that well protected, because the staff is not locked down. You can't force staff to live at a facility 24/7.

Which is why I think the staff ought to vaccinated first.

 

[Brat]

I think health care workers should be first in line (we need them to be able to help us), then old folks and people who are immune-suppressed.

 

[Amethyst]

I'm good with that, and I think the "authorities" are, too.

Besides, we need people to go first to be sure it's safe

I think health care workers should be first in line (we need them to be able to help us), then old folks and people who are immune-suppressed.

 

[TimeMeasure]

On the question that came up re: whether you can get another COVID-19 vaccine (if it approved) if you’ve already had a trial COVID-19 vaccine of a different sort:

We recently qualified to join one of the COVID-19 trials. During the informational session, they told us that it’s always an option for folks to drop out of the trial in order to take a different vaccine, if another better choice comes along. As far as whether there’s risk to doing so, the answer boiled down to: Technically the answer is that it’s not known without a study, but the probability is low, especially if the mechanism of action is different.

And on the separate question someone raised re: how people would know you were “safe to be around,” safe not to wear a mask, etc., after a vaccine:

That specific question did not come up, but one thing that has been clear lately is that no vaccine is 100% effective. When the Pfizer vaccine was declared 90% effective, that was taken as stunning news; medical professionals had thought 50% effective would be a reasonable number. So - even having a proven fairly effective vaccine doesn’t guarantee that you’re safe to be around, don’t have to wear a mask, etc. It just means that your probability of contracting the disease is lower than it would be otherwise - just as taking the annual flu vaccine doesn’t guarantee you won’t get flu, but reduces the probability.

Because COVID-19 is so much more serious than the common flu, both in terms of mortality rate and long-term sequelae, we would likely continue to wear masks even after taking a proven effective vaccine, until the prevalence of COVID-19 in the general population became very low. The vaccine would help our peace of mind, but it wouldn’t make us bulletproof, particularly if the pandemic were still raging in the population at large, as it is now.

 

[RetireBy90]

Pfizer vaccine was declared 90% effective, that was taken as stunning news

FWIW CEO took pains to say it was OVER 90% effective. 90 is great, but I believe he said only one that got vaccine didn’t produce antibodies.

 

[Chuckanut]

That specific question did not come up, but one thing that has been clear lately is that no vaccine is 100% effective. When the Pfizer vaccine was declared 90% effective, that was taken as stunning news; medical professionals had thought 50% effective would be a reasonable number.

90% is an impressive number.

Can anyone tell us, in layman's terms, exactly what that means?

When it comes to medical statistics I have learned that misunderstanding is often the rule when they are presented to laypeople.

 

[JoeWras]

90% is an impressive number.

Can anyone tell us, in layman's terms, exactly what that means?

When it comes to medical statistics I have learned that misunderstanding is often the rule when they are presented to laypeople.

They had to wait for a certain number of people in the study to come down with Covid. When that number was hit, they look at placebo vs vaccinated group. 10% or less of those testing positive for Covid were in the vaccinated group.

That's how it was explained to me. I am no expert.

EDIT: I think that math doesn't even add up. I think it is actually way less than 10%, more like 5% since the group is split 50-50. In any case, it is a darn good number.

 

[Amethyst]

We are resigned to wearing masks for a long time, yet. By this time, we're pretty used to the paper accordion-fold ones. I haven't bought a lipstick in months!

Hoping against hope that Vaccine + Mask = incidence so low that travel and theater can resume.

So - even having a proven fairly effective vaccine doesn’t guarantee that you’re safe to be around, don’t have to wear a mask, etc.

 

[gerntz]

Because COVID-19 is so much more serious than the common flu, both in terms of mortality rate and long-term sequelae,

I don't know that that is a given given that so many have had the flu over the years and vaccines against it for 10's of years, both creating resistance, while C-19, being brand new, has neither defense. Yes, today more serious but time will tell if that's true in the long-run. Also, we don't even know close to C-19's mortality rate when so little of the population has been tested for it. 160M tests isn't 160M different people.

 

[TimeMeasure]

Hoping against hope that Vaccine + Mask = incidence so low that travel and theater can resume.

Amen to that. Our local coffeehouses have been making a valiant, well-intended attempt to keep the music scene going... but it’s just not the same as going to a folk music concert in person.

And although we managed to travel this fall (on an airplane no less), it was a calculated risk, and complicated, and not sure that we would do it now that the “second surge of the first wave” (or whatever the current exponential rise should be called) is in full swing...

 

[JustCurious]

I don't know that that is a given given that so many have had the flu over the years and vaccines against it for 10's of years, both creating resistance, while C-19, being brand new, has neither defense. Yes, today more serious but time will tell if that's true in the long-run. Also, we don't even know close to C-19's mortality rate when so little of the population has been tested for it. 160M tests isn't 160M different people.

I agree.

 

[RetireBy90]

Moderna Vaccine 94% effective

Moderna CEO on CNBC this morning, 94% effective, 20M doses by end of this year, can be in fridge for 30 days, no severe side effects from the vaccine, 11 from placebo group. Story on CNBC

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/16/mod...94percent-effective.html?&qsearchterm=moderna

 

[JoeWras]

Moderna CEO on CNBC this morning, 94% effective, 20M doses by end of this year, can be in fridge for 30 days, no severe side effects from the vaccine, 11 from placebo group. Story on CNBC

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/16/mod...94percent-effective.html?&qsearchterm=moderna

Other numbers: 95 people in the study got Covid (so far). Only 5 were in the vaccine group. 90 were placebo.

Long term storage is at -4F vs. Pfizer's requirement of -94F. That's huge because -4F puts it in the range of common food grade freezers.

 

[RetireBy90]

This morning got 2 interviews with Scott Gottlieb on CMBC, he just commented on Moderna news. Available at
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/11/...d-pandemic-in-2021.html?&qsearchterm=gottlieb


Interesting answer on the future of vaccines, said he suspects it will be annual at least for a few years and reformulations will reduce the restrictions on cold storage and perhaps to a single dose. Said they bypassed all the nice features in a race to get a vaccine out. Now they will have time to go back and do the kind of things they would have normally spent another year to work on.



For those that have watched him over past months, note he is almost showing a smile.

Pfizer stock down this morning and Moderna is up. I would have expected both to be up. Go figure

 

[JoeWras]

Pfizer stock down this morning and Moderna is up. I would have expected both to be up. Go figure

Moderna will win in the long term due to the easier storage requirement? Just a guess.

Short term, both will be distributed.

 

[MichaelB]

It seems strange a vaccine announcement would come on a financial TV network.

 

[Montecfo]

Moderna will win in the long term due to the easier storage requirement? Just a guess.

Short term, both will be distributed.

I suspect the ultimate winner might be a single shot vaccine or even an oral one.

But we need more details on effectiveness. Are the effectiveness rates of Moderna and Pfizer really comparable? What exactly was prevented by each?

Did those who got sick have milder symptoms?