What test to determine if Covid vaccine is effective?

[harllee]

DH is immune compromised and now has had 3 Moderna vaccine shots, 2 back in February and a third booster a few days ago. He had no side effects to any of the shots, not even a sore arm. He is considering getting some sort of antibody test in a couple of weeks to determine if the booster shot was effective for him. His doctors (general practitioner and rheumatologist) recommend against getting an antibody test because they say the tests are not accurate.

Would anyone here recommend an antibody test for my husband? If so which one and when should he get it and where?

What if the antibody test shows that DH has no antibodies from the vaccine? What then?

Thanks!

 

[teejayevans]

I would have gotten a different brand of vaccine shot as the booster, just in case brand name X isn’t as effective as brand Y against Delta variant, or whatever the next variant is (lambda?).
So if you don’t have antibodies, maybe try J&J (non RNA type)?

 

[harllee]

I would have gotten a different brand of vaccine shot as the booster, just in case brand name X isn’t as effective as brand Y against Delta variant, or whatever the next variant is (lambda?).
So if you don’t have antibodies, maybe try J&J (non RNA type)?

The FDA/CDC has only approved getting a booster shot of the same kind you had originally. The local pharmacies will not give you a different brand, you have to take the same brand you had before.

 

[Aerides]

I don't think you're going to get the answer you're looking for in any test.

Antibody tests are imperfect. If they say No, that does NOT mean you don't have immunity. Immunity is far more complex than antibodies. T-cells, other stuff. There are plenty of people who have had Covid who test negative for antibodies.

And a positive for antibodies is only good as a point in time. You have no idea if the person's immunity will fall faster or not than others. The data is great in aggregate, but probably varies by individual - ie, how fast immunity wanes.

And, as you say, what then? Personally, in your shoes, I'd continue with reasonable caution much as your DH probably always did even pre-covid, and sneak in boosters as often as they are permitted/recommended/available (or more often), until herd immunity increases.

 

[teejayevans]

The FDA/CDC has only approved getting a booster shot of the same kind you had originally. The local pharmacies will not give you a different brand, you have to take the same brand you had before.

Oh well…I won’t be getting a 3rd shot, unless they alter it’s formulation to be more effective against the variants.

 

[Another Reader]

DH is immune compromised and now has had 3 Moderna vaccine shots, 2 back in February and a third booster a few days ago. He had no side effects to any of the shots, not even a sore arm. He is considering getting some sort of antibody test in a couple of weeks to determine if the booster shot was effective for him. His doctors (general practitioner and rheumatologist) recommend against getting an antibody test because they say the tests are not accurate.

Would anyone here recommend an antibody test for my husband? If so which one and when should he get it and where?

What if the antibody test shows that DH has no antibodies from the vaccine? What then?

Thanks!

The tests are accurate if they are positive. A virologist who is also a Long Covid patient recommended this one in one of the support groups. Description is from the FDA website.

Roche Elecsys Anti-SARS-CoV-2 S
Developer: Roche Diagnostics, Inc.
Test: Elecsys Anti-SARS-CoV-2 S
Technology: Semi-quantitative High Throughput ECLIA
Target: Spike

You will have to self pay. Ask your local labs if they use that test. The key thing is that it is a spike protein test. A nucleocapsid test is irrelevant, as the vaccine causes you to develop antibodies to the spike protein only.

The result may be worth mentioning to the doctor. It may or may not mean he has no immunity if it's negative.

 

[ncbill]

Yep, once the antibodies disappear you still have "memory cells" that remember the virus.

Is the OP's loved one planning on switching to a different vaccine if they don't test positive for the antibodies?

If not why bother with the test?

 

[harllee]

Why bother with the test? DH is hopeful the antibody test to give him some confidence to live his daily life. For 18 months now he has not been inside a public space with the exception of doctor's offices. He is uncomfortable seeing friends and family, even vaccinated ones. He wants to be able to go the the post office, the grocery store, the library, Church, etc and he hopes an antibody test will give him that confidence. As his wife I see him getting depressed and it is affecting my mental health also. Back in June we saw some hope, but now with Delta that hope is vanishing.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Harlee, I feel bad for your husband and understand why he wants to know.

 

[Sunset]

OP - this is terrible, the not knowing if it worked.

Myself I didn't have any significant reaction so really I'm hoping/trusting it worked.
However I don't have the concern you do, because I don't know why it wouldn't work.

I don't know of any test that would show it worked.

I wonder are there studies of getting a different type of vaccine like the J&J one in addition to the one already received that show effectiveness for immuno compromised folks ?

 

[Alan]

I wonder are there studies of getting a different type of vaccine like the J&J one in addition to the one already received that show effectiveness for immuno compromised folks ?

Yes, my wife and I have been in one for 4 months.


https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f55/mix-and-match-vaccine-trial-108890.html

An earlier mix and match trial in England showed no problems mixing AZ and Pfizer plus other studies including one in Spain also proved you can mix vaccines and Canada and other countries have been mixing vaccines for some weeks now.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/mixing-vaccines-canada-1.6123155

It's not unusual to mix and match," said Angela Rasmussen, a virologist with the Vaccine and Infectious Disease Organization in Saskatoon.

"I think that it does create a more flexible situation which is really good overall, because we don't need to just think about vaccinating everybody in Canada — we need to think about vaccinating everybody in the world."

A growing number of countries are considering swapping in different COVID-19 vaccines into their programs as second doses or boosters, in light of supply delays and safety concerns tied to certain other shots.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

I'm part of a study, and when I got a positive antibody test after being vaccinated, they did a second one to determine if the first one was due to vaccination or exposure. So I'm not sure if there is one test that will tell you if you have the antibodies due to being vaccinated, and as others have said, the antibody level can change over time, and with the vaccine that doesn't mean that you lose your immunity.

Anyway, in case you're interested, here's what my results say after vaccination, with the names of the tests:

LabCorp - Euroimmun
POSITIVE [date redacted]
Antibodies to the COVID-19 virus spike protein were detected. This suggests that you may have been previously infected or vaccinated against COVID-19. However, a positive result is not a measure of protection from future infection. This is not a clinical test and should not be used to change your behavior. Please follow guidance from the CDC and your physician concerning the best ways to prevent and manage COVID-19. If you have any questions regarding these results, email us at [redacted].

LabCorp - Roche
NEGATIVE [same date as above]
To better understand the spread of COVID-19 and the uptake of vaccination in the community, all participants who test positive for antibodies are tested a second time to determine if their body’s response is due to exposure to the virus or vaccination. Your body will make different antibodies in response to COVID-19 infection than in response to vaccination. Further testing indicates that you do NOT have antibodies to the COVID-19 virus nucleocapsid protein that develop after natural infection, suggesting that your antibodies result from vaccination. Antibody tests can take several weeks to become positive following COVID-19 infection or vaccination and may become negative again several months after COVID-19 infection. This is not a clinical test and should not be used to change your behavior. Please follow guidance from the CDC and your physician concerning the best ways to prevent and manage COVID-19. If you have any questions regarding these results, email us at [redacted].

 

[goingtotravel]

Why bother with the test? DH is hopeful the antibody test to give him some confidence to live his daily life. For 18 months now he has not been inside a public space with the exception of doctor's offices. He is uncomfortable seeing friends and family, even vaccinated ones. He wants to be able to go the the post office, the grocery store, the library, Church, etc and he hopes an antibody test will give him that confidence. As his wife I see him getting depressed and it is affecting my mental health also. Back in June we saw some hope, but now with Delta that hope is vanishing.

We are in the same place right now. DH got his third shot, he doesn't know if he will get any response or one that lasts, and his doctors are telling him that the tests for antibodies are useless to really determine if it's safe for us to go out in public again. We are now cancelling our Fall vacation with friends because his doctors told us to continue to essentially do what you all are doing which is avoid all public places, mask outside the house, continue to socially distance, etc.

Here is something that might get immunocompromised people and their families out of this never ending nightmare. There are antibody treatments specifically being tested on immunocompromised people that are apparently showing some promise in building immunity. AstraZeneca has one in Phase III trials now.

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/azd7442-prophylaxis-trial-met-primary-endpoint.html

We are hopeful that something like this will work for us and the other 3% or more of the US population that have some sort of immunity issue that continues to put them at high risk.

 

[Gumby]

I have no idea what test is used, but the Red Cross has tested me positive for the presence of SARS-Cov2 antibodies the last two times I gave blood. The report says that is "consistent with having been vaccinated". I'm donating again in about two weeks (6 months post-vaccination) and hopeful that I get the same report.

 

[Jerry1]

He is uncomfortable seeing friends and family, even vaccinated ones. He wants to be able to go the the post office, the grocery store, the library, Church,

To see friends, I would meet them in an outside location and stay socially distant. For trips to the store or library, I’d get an N95 mask and not spend a lot of time indoors - get in, get out. I would not go to a situation like church or a restaurant where you are indoors for a length of time and the number of people is significant.

He’s received the vaccines and due to your situation, you’re struggling to trust them. If you get a test, it’s hard to believe you will trust them. Plus, even if you have the antibodies (tests come back positive), how do you know you won’t have a breakthrough case. The bottom line is that you have to consider your individual situation and it seems like you have a situation where you believe maximum care needs to be taken. That, as you mentioned, has to be balanced with mental health. I’d start doing some things as I mentioned above before you both fall into depression. Even a little bit of normalcy will help. I wish you well.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Read the post regarding LabCorp results. The vaccine results in only spike protein antibodies, infection also results in nuclear capsid antibodies.

I read that there is a robust antibody response after the booster. IMO, they gave the doses too close together originally. I wish the booster contained the mRNA for the delta variant. It certainly makes sense to make the booster against this worse variant. Why aren’t they?

 

[CardsFan]

I have no idea what test is used, but the Red Cross has tested me positive for the presence of SARS-Cov2 antibodies the last two times I gave blood. The report says that is "consistent with having been vaccinated". I'm donating again in about two weeks (6 months post-vaccination) and hopeful that I get the same report.

I am pretty sure the Red Cross has stopped testing for antibodies. I know they have stopped in my area.

 

[audreyh1]

Read the post regarding LabCorp results. The vaccine results in only spike protein antibodies, infection also results in nuclear capsid antibodies.

I read that there is a robust antibody response after the booster. IMO, they gave the doses too close together originally. I wish the booster contained the mRNA for the delta variant. It certainly makes sense to make the booster against this worse variant. Why aren’t they?

I think some research has indicated that closer spacing didn’t make a difference. So it’s still unclear.

Originally, if they’d stuck with a longer spacing, vaccine rollout would have been seriously delayed with the testing taking longer. Tough to do during a public health emergency.

Booster tuned to delta variant isn’t available yet, and what we have works well enough against delta to use now?

Once the delta specific booster is available and approved, will delta be in the rear view mirror?

 

[harllee]

To see friends, I would meet them in an outside location and stay socially distant. For trips to the store or library, I’d get an N95 mask and not spend a lot of time indoors - get in, get out. I would not go to a situation like church or a restaurant where you are indoors for a length of time and the number of people is significant.

He’s received the vaccines and due to your situation, you’re struggling to trust them. If you get a test, it’s hard to believe you will trust them. Plus, even if you have the antibodies (tests come back positive), how do you know you won’t have a breakthrough case. The bottom line is that you have to consider your individual situation and it seems like you have a situation where you believe maximum care needs to be taken. That, as you mentioned, has to be balanced with mental health. I’d start doing some things as I mentioned above before you both fall into depression. Even a little bit of normalcy will help. I wish you well.

Thanks for the suggestions. We do see vaccinated friends/family outside. We just point blank ask people if they are vaccinated and if they do not answer or say no we do not see them. I do all the trips that involve going indoors--grocery (mainly do pick up), library etc and I wear a KN95 mask. For all his doctor, dentist appts he wear a KN95 mask. We have eaten some at outdoor restaurants and we have gone to outdoor Church but it is now too hot do that in Chapel Hill.

We are big sports fans and love to go to UNC sports, especially basketball and it is depressing us to thing we will not be able to attend those games this year. We have season tickets, we will probably need to sell those to someone else.

 

[ls99]

Seems the FDA planning to approve the Pfizer vaccine.
https://nypost.com/2021/08/20/fda-e...-approval-of-pfizer-vaccine-on-monday-report/
"The Food and Drug Administration is preparing to grant full approval of Pfizer-BioNTech’s COVID-19 vaccine on Monday, according to a report on Friday."

If so, will that automatically terminate the emergency use of any other Covid vaccine? As per supposed emergency use, only if if nothing else is available for the purpose.
Does the approval also mean that the Pfizer vax is better than 50% effective in preventing illness from from Covid, any strain?

 

[W2R]

So much of the info we have at this early point in time seems to change frequently due to further studies, or at least that's how it seems to me. If a test says that you do or do not have antibodies, personally I would regard that as reassuring but not as written in stone.

Therefore to me it seems most reasonable to take what some might call an excessively cautious approach until this pandemic gets under control (like staying home when sick; staying away from others, especially those who are sick; not sneezing on people; avoiding crowds; and so on). I hope the tests aren't deterring people from taking these common sense measures.

 

[audreyh1]

Seems the FDA planning to approve the Pfizer vaccine.
https://nypost.com/2021/08/20/fda-e...-approval-of-pfizer-vaccine-on-monday-report/
"The Food and Drug Administration is preparing to grant full approval of Pfizer-BioNTech’s COVID-19 vaccine on Monday, according to a report on Friday."

If so, will that automatically terminate the emergency use of any other Covid vaccine? As per supposed emergency use, only if if nothing else is available for the purpose.
Does the approval also mean that the Pfizer vax is better than 50% effective in preventing illness from from Covid, any strain?

No, it only affects Pfizer.

The approval just means it met the more thorough requirements for full approval.

 

[HF63]

DH is immune compromised and now has had 3 Moderna vaccine shots, 2 back in February and a third booster a few days ago. He had no side effects to any of the shots, not even a sore arm. He is considering getting some sort of antibody test in a couple of weeks to determine if the booster shot was effective for him. His doctors (general practitioner and rheumatologist) recommend against getting an antibody test because they say the tests are not accurate.

Would anyone here recommend an antibody test for my husband? If so which one and when should he get it and where?

What if the antibody test shows that DH has no antibodies from the vaccine? What then?

Thanks!

I am on the same as your husband, when I venture to the mention public places, I used an N95 mask, face shield, and gloves. I also minimize the time that I spent inside. If I see the place to crowed, I do not enter the facility.