When will the restrictions be lifted?

[Gumby]

Understood. I interpreted your statement to imply the correction. I guess not. I'll delete.

Thank you. Also, it wasn't my statement. It was W2R's. Maybe she would have said what you added and maybe not. But it was critical of Ready and she should be the one to make that decision. Anyway, problem resolved so we're all good.

 

[W2R]

Thank you. Also, it wasn't my statement. It was W2R's. Maybe she would have said what you added and maybe not. But it was critical of Ready and she should be the one to make that decision. Anyway, problem resolved so we're all good.

I deleted my post too. Tiger8693, I am sorry that I got all this started; it was my fault entirely, not yours. I should probably use the "ignore" feature more than I do. Thirteen years on the forum and I have never used it! But it is there for our convenience so why not. I have the luxury of being able to do that now since I quit my Admin position a while back.

 

[gwraigty]

I read where a man was arrested in front of his 6 year old daughter for being out in public playing catch with her. If this continues, protests will increase and intensify. They need to be careful about "how' they enforce for sure.

We're not far from some rural areas. Early into the stay at home order, a man was almost arrested for riding his ATV. After law enforcement realized the man was on his own property, they backed off. Law enforcement admitted that this whole business is an unprecedented gray area and they really weren't sure how to handle a lot of situations. It wasn't said who reported the man in the first place.

How about this:

JeffCo 911 dispatcher finds anonymous note from nosey neighbor, telling her to stay at home

Working the graveyard shift at JeffCom 911 and raising three young children during a pandemic is not easy. Not to mention the added responsibility of an already high-pressure career: making sure police officers, fire fighters and EMS workers know about any potential COVID-19 contamination at a given scene.

“We do have that training to kinda get them through those times,” Silchia said.

So, one can imagine her confusion and frustration Saturday evening when she found a note on her windshield, telling her to stay at home. The letter makes several assumptions based on observing Silchia and her routine.

Read the note. How would any of us feel knowing that a neighbor was watching all of our comings and goings like that?

 

[brewer12345]

We're not far from some rural areas. Early into the stay at home order, a man was almost arrested for riding his ATV. After law enforcement realized the man was on his own property, they backed off. Law enforcement admitted that this whole business is an unprecedented gray area and they really weren't sure how to handle a lot of situations. It wasn't said who reported the man in the first place.

How about this:

JeffCo 911 dispatcher finds anonymous note from nosey neighbor, telling her to stay at home



Read the note. How would any of us feel knowing that a neighbor was watching all of our comings and goings like that?

I would feel like someone was asking to have a 4 letter word written in bleach on their lawn in ten foot letters in the middle of the night.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Gauss, no they didn’t have the floor marked but I read they do now. We filled all our prescriptions for 90 days and then had to go back. Our insurance makes us use them. Even though I am 65 with asthma and hbp I won’t stay home forever. That’s not living.

 

[gauss]

^ Good. (except for the part about having to go back and the insurance requirements).

Thanks
-gauss

 

[gwraigty]

My home state is still banning elective medical procedures and treatments. The hospitals now have plenty of empty beds as the curve was well flattened and the giant wave of sick CV19 patients that might have hit them was turned into a big swell. The goal was achieved.

Now the hospitals find themselves with plenty of empty beds and not enough patients. Nurses are being laid off. Yet, people who need things like knee replacements, hernia fixes and so on are still having to wait. Dental offices are still closed and the staff unemployed.

One good way to start opening up would be to let the hospitals and dental offices perform non-emergency services with proper cleaning and distancing. But so far the governor (who always has nicely trimmed hair!?!?!) has not done so.

+1

Nothing to count on, but our governor in Ohio mentioned the medical procedures that are currently banned as being an area they might consider to be first in line to start back up again. In the task force videos, it was terrible to hear of all the medical/dental stuff that was deemed unessential. Physical therapy for post-op patients, screening for lesions that might be cancer, a mass with active bleeding that needs surgery, ongoing orthodontic treatment that was interrupted, cavities going unfilled, etc.

 

[gwraigty]

I would feel like someone was asking to have a 4 letter word written in bleach on their lawn in ten foot letters in the middle of the night.

You are far more creative than I am.

 

[gwraigty]

Are dentists really being restricted from performing their services in your state? Or is it that they recognize that nobody is going to want to come in and have their teeth cleaned right now so they are accepting the situation and shutting down voluntarily?

In Ohio, dentists were mandated to stop performing teeth cleanings, whitenings, orthodontic work, and pretty much anything that didn't involve handling something directly related to an emergency. If I hadn't cancelled my teeth cleaning, it would have been cancelled for me. Our dentist reduced his hours to 3 hours a day just 4 days a week. Thankfully, DH was able to get in to have an infection by a tooth taken care of. The dentist did the cleaning out of the area himself and prescribed antibiotics. It seems to have worked. Only the dentist and the receptionist were in the office. No hygienist, as there's no work she's allowed to do right now.

 

[Leo1277]

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/corona...0200417-lkel6rlik5blhd5zdktkrxhzze-story.html

Thanks for that link, I suggest people read it, because if this is an indication of what has been going on, then it will greatly affect the ability to open up and just hope for the best. One excerpt: "It was midway through March and Florida’s peak flu season was winding down. Then a steep, sudden and alarming spike in pneumonia-related deaths appeared — signaling the arrival of a killer: the new coronavirus. Experts say the grim spike likely included coronavirus deaths recorded, instead, as pneumonia. And the timing could mean the virus was already spreading unchecked through Florida communities as early as late February, weeks before the state began taking social-distancing measures."

I happen to have some anecdotal evidence and brief time line to share from my own social circle that ties in with this. and I would be very interested in other comments with similar anecdotal stories, in particular from South Florida.

02-06: (approx). A friend and handyman tells us that his daughter was out sick from elementary school for several days with a bad stomach virus, and so is apparently half her class. He is also affected for a few days, and subsequently comes over to see us for several hours of handyman work in our home.

02-10: DW starts having very severe stomach issue, with fever and general severe lack of energy. Projectile vomiting, something I have never see her do. I follow one day later, but less stomach and more throat, combined with a very unusual, severe fatigue. Stomach and severe fatigue resolve within a few days, but throat issues and low-grade fatigue linger for about one month.

02-19: Friend from above reports he is still badly sick with flu/pneumonia and malaise, that most of his family has it and he knows many friends who also seem similarly affected. One week later he states that he is starting to improve, but now knows many people who have this “strange flu”

Preceding all this – is it a coincidence, or connecting the dots? I don’t want to start any conspiracy theories, but…

02-02: Superbowl in Miami, bringing in the SF 49ers, many of their fans from the San Francisco Bay area, one of the first locations of Covid-19 in the US (although subsequently well controlled due to early social distancing). Total crowd of around 200,000 people, of which 60,000 plus are packed tightly into the stadium, and many others are packed for tailgating and many other parties.

 

[Turbo29]

So when your exercise of your civil liberties causes your neighbor to die from a disease you carry is that ok?

If the neighbor is concerned, they may remain in their house and isolate themselves from other people if they go out.

 

[Turbo29]

Until there's a vaccine, things will not open up completely. Many people like me (retired, 63yo) will simply stay home...except for an occasional trip to the grocery store or quick trip to pick something up at another store. Going out to a restaurant or to an event with lots of people would just be too risky. As much as our leaders would like to think that opening things up before a vaccine is available will bring us back to a normal economy, they are sadly mistaken.

Other people will take chances and start enjoying the new open economy resulting in somewhat of a recovery. But hopefully the numbers don't start going back up again because of this.

There is no guarantee that there will ever be a vaccine, or at least one anytime soon.


We've never made a successful vaccine for a coronavirus before. This is why it's so difficult

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-04-17/coronavirus-vaccine-ian-frazer/12146616

 

[Midpack]

I'm not telling other people what to do and many people will start going out when the economy opens up. But I'm just guessing that there will be a fair number of people that will, for the most part, stay home until there's a vaccine. I don't think people should be expected to risk getting sick just to help the economy.

There's no doubt some people will stay at home long after the economy reopens the first time, the second time or whenever. You and others think that's a "fair number of people" and some think it will prove to be a very small group after a few months. None of us know, but we may find out...

 

[Midpack]

I keep reading this and it simply isn't true. We may not be willing to bear the costs or think it is worth going through something like a depression, but we can in fact partially shut the economy until a vaccine is available. Since a reopening will likely result in a second wave, I imagine a continued partial shutdown is exactly what we will do.

It appears I misunderstood the intent of the post I was replying too. I took that member to believe it was irresponsible to open the economy to anything non-essential until there's a proven vaccine, and I don't think we could survive that. He's since told me he was only speaking for himself, and he believes there are a "fair number" like him. I think there will be people who stay at home at first, but most will wade back in within a few months or sooner - but I confess it's my guess.

I agree completely we'll remain in a partial shutdown and adopt protective measures (PPE, distancing) more uniformly for quite a while. Until a vaccine, mo better testing & contact tracing, and/or effective therapies. With so many people evidently working on all the above, more people will be able to re-enter the economy, with only the most vulnerable staying away (voluntary in a "fair number" of cases?).

 

[Midpack]

I read where a man was arrested in front of his 6 year old daughter for being out in public playing catch with her. If this continues, protests will increase and intensify. They need to be careful about "how' they enforce for sure.

While that did happen, the park they were playing in was closed, and the man in question refused to produce ID when requested.

The man was held for ~10 mins in the cop car, and then released. And the PD apologized publicly the next day, pledging to complete an internal investigation. So hopefully this was an isolated overreach, and likely, one that was used as a cautionary tale to many PD's across the country.

We're not far from some rural areas. Early into the stay at home order, a man was almost arrested for riding his ATV. After law enforcement realized the man was on his own property, they backed off. Law enforcement admitted that this whole business is an unprecedented gray area and they really weren't sure how to handle a lot of situations. It wasn't said who reported the man in the first place.

Tiger's post was discredited earlier, misrepresented what actually happened. FWIW.

 

[USGrant1962]

There is no guarantee that there will ever be a vaccine, or at least one anytime soon.


We've never made a successful vaccine for a coronavirus before. This is why it's so difficult

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-04-17/coronavirus-vaccine-ian-frazer/12146616

+1

Lots of people/politicians/press act like there are simple solutions out there that will somehow make everyone safe. There are not.

• Vaccines - may never be developed
• Cures/therapies - good after you catch it
• Testing, testing, testing - only a snapshot in time, doesn't prevent the disease, even tiny countries with "massive" testing have only tested 5-10% of the population
• Lockdowns - unsustainable
• Social distancing - only slows the spread

None of these can totally prevent the disease on a society scale.

COVID-19 exists --> reality.

 

[LRDave]

I keep reading this and it simply isn't true. We may not be willing to bear the costs or think it is worth going through something like a depression, but we can in fact partially shut the economy until a vaccine is available. Since a reopening will likely result in a second wave, I imagine a continued partial shutdown is exactly what we will do.

My opinion is that what you suggest here is exactly what is going to happen, no matter what strategy is chosen.

1) Carry on similar to the current levels - depression-like hardship or worse.

2) Partially open up - 2nd waves pop up all around, resulting regional shutdowns for weeks/months (while still not reaching the elusive herd immunity) - depression-like hardship or worse.

3) Charge towards herd immunity, resulting in black-plague-like "bring out your dead" horrors, which will shut down the economy just the same or worse, resulting in depression-like hardships or worse.

I'd vote for 1) above, but I think 2) is now a fait accompli.

I feel that the only way herd immunity will be reached is for the disease to run out of control. I think the idea of somehow sneaking up on it won't work.

 

[Midpack]

There is no guarantee that there will ever be a vaccine, or at least one anytime soon.


We've never made a successful vaccine for a coronavirus before. This is why it's so difficult

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-04-17/coronavirus-vaccine-ian-frazer/12146616

Wow, that was an interesting read, I had no idea (like most of this stuff, learning as I go). OTOH genomics has revolutionized development of vaccines, so that's one factor in our favor. Examples of vaccine development before genomics (like SARS 2003 mentioned in the link) may not be directly applicable. I hope.

It can be argued that the arrival of the “genomics era” has significantly shifted the paradigm of vaccine and therapeutics development from microbiological to sequence-based approaches. Genome sequences provide a previously unattainable route to investigate the mechanisms that underpin pathogenesis. Genomics, transcriptomics, metabolomics, structural genomics, proteomics, and immunomics are being exploited to perfect the identification of targets, to design new vaccines and drugs, and to predict their effects in patients. Furthermore, human genomics and related studies are providing insights into aspects of host biology that are important in infectious disease. This ever-growing body of genomic data and new genome-based approaches will play a critical role in the future to enable timely development of vaccines and therapeutics to control emerging infectious diseases.

 

[gwraigty]

Tiger's post was discredited earlier, misrepresented what actually happened. FWIW.

I was simply relating an anecdote from an area near to me, where law enforcement was overreaching. I wasn't offering an opinion on Tiger's post. I did see the later post on it by Aerides. The police apologized, which I think means something, if I need to offer an opinion at all, which isn't the least bit important. At any rate, in my city they announced right at the start of the stay at home orders that they were not responding to any more parking complaints and were going to have only one police officer per car to maintain social distancing. I didn't realize they got that many parking complaints.

 

[timo2]

Regarding the people saying the so called 'at risk' should stay at home, that is exactly the thinking that people used to say about the disabled. They were called 'shut-ins' back in the day because society wouldn't accommodate them. It was a struggle for the disabled to overcome that and get the ADA passed. Many older people now benefit from the provisions of the ADA. But that prejudicial attitude is back and being promoted by talking heads on the TV regarding the 'at risk'. People in the so called 'at-risk' group have rights and civil liberties also, and should not be relegated to the back rooms of society any more than the disabled used to be. IMO.

 

[gwraigty]

Regarding the people saying the so called 'at risk' should stay at home, that is exactly the thinking that people used to say about the disabled. They were called 'shut-ins' back in the day because society wouldn't accommodate them. It was a struggle for the disabled to overcome that and get the ADA passed. Many older people now benefit from the provisions of the ADA. But that prejudicial attitude is back and being promoted by talking heads on the TV regarding the 'at risk'. People in the so called 'at-risk' group have rights and civil liberties also, and should not be relegated to the back rooms of society any more than the disabled used to be. IMO.

I understand your point. However, our governor has actually said that's going to be part of the plan in slowly reopening the Ohio economy. The elderly and others at risk should stay at home. I'd guess that other governors are saying the same thing. It's not just posters here, or protesters.

 

[Tiger8693]

Tiger's post was discredited earlier, misrepresented what actually happened. FWIW.

The post that Aerides made did NOT discredit my post or what happened (if that is the discredited post you were referring to).

The man was handcuffed, in from of his 6 year old daughter. That they "apologized" 10 minutes later doesn't change that fact.

 

[Chuckanut]

Are dentists really being restricted from performing their services in your state? Or is it that they recognize that nobody is going to want to come in and have their teeth cleaned right now so they are accepting the situation and shutting down voluntarily?

My understanding is that only emergency dental procedures are OK in Washington State as of today. So, if you badly damage a tooth, you can get it treated. But, if you want your teeth cleaned, you are out of luck.

 

[MrsHaloFIRE]

If the neighbor is concerned, they may remain in their house and isolate themselves from other people if they go out.

There are laws on the books for this reason. Typhoid mary Active TB??

 

[Ronstar]

My understanding is that only emergency dental procedures are OK in Washington State as of today. So, if you badly damage a tooth, you can get it treated. But, if you want your teeth cleaned, you are out of luck.

Same thing in Illinois - emergency only. I broke off part of a back tooth about a week ago. It doesn't hurt, so I think I'll wait a while to go to the dentist.