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-   -   Ultra High Net Worth (UHNW) Article (https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/ultra-high-net-worth-uhnw-article-100228.html)

USGrant1962 10-07-2019 08:21 PM

Ultra High Net Worth (UHNW) Article
 
Advisor Perspectives provides a statistical outline of UHNW peeps worldwide, based on a study by Wealth-X.

https://www.advisorperspectives.com/...aign=item_link

Interesting tidbits:
  • U.S. has the most UHNW investors, China is gaining but still <1/3 the number of U.S.A.
  • In this survey, $30M invested wealth is the entry fee. But that is "chump change" for the 2,804 billionaires worldwide.
  • 2/3 are self-made, a quarter are a combo of self made and inherited, and only 8.5% are trust fund babies (all inherited).
  • Harvard produced the most UHNW peeps by far (over twice the number as Stanford or Penn)
  • Only 6.2% of their assets are in real estate.
  • Banking and Investments (Wall Streeters and the George Soros types) is the most common occupation, Technology is #2
Though we ER.org peeps are all above average in height, intelligence, and appearance - this cohort is very different from ER.org or even Bogleheads.

marko 10-08-2019 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USGrant1962 (Post 2307618)
Though we ER.org peeps are all above average in height, intelligence, and appearance - this cohort is very different from ER.org or even Bogleheads.

I'm often reminded of a scene from the movie "Diner": A bunch of inner city guys from Baltimore find themselves driving through the countryside. They come across a girl riding a horse, all dressed up in formal riding gear, looking ready for a fox hunt.

One of the guys says: "Do you ever get the feeling that there's a whole other world out there that you know nothing about?"

To your stats, I'm a bit surprised at the low % of real estate holdings.

The low % of 'all inherited' also says a lot and reinforces the data that "the 1%" is a revolving door where one may sit there for a few years but then fall back down some, replaced by others rather than the dreaded 'dynastic wealth' of conspiracy theorists. Seems that 90% are 'new money' and self-made to some degree.

cooch96 10-08-2019 06:36 AM

That was more illuminating, and less preachy, than I thought it’d be. Good link, grant.

And here I thought $20M was considered UHNW. I must’ve read that in 2005 or something.

GravitySucks 10-08-2019 07:16 AM

Pretty good article. And had a word I like and hadn't seen or heard in a while.

dil∑et∑tante

/ˌdiləˈtšnt,diləˈtšntē/


noun

a person who cultivates an area of interest, such as the arts, without real commitment or knowledge.

"a wealthy literary dilettante"

timemoveson 10-08-2019 07:27 AM

Very good
 
Very good post and very good report. Download the full pdf (free) from Wealth-X if you are interested.

I'm surprised that my little Canada still has such a high ranking. Given our size, relatively egalitarian society, lack of a real claim to fame or advantages, and regressive tax system, I would have thought we might sneak into the top 10, not be in the middle.

Chuckanut 10-08-2019 09:10 AM

Wasn't it just a few days ago we were discussing a guy who worked very little, lived on a sail boat, needed very little money and had a wonderful carefree life?

Rianne 10-08-2019 09:18 AM

There are a few in the $1B++ range who recognize the danger and are working to make a change.

walkinwood 10-08-2019 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko (Post 2307671)

The low % of 'all inherited' also says a lot and reinforces the data that "the 1%" is a revolving door where one may sit there for a few years but then fall back down some, replaced by others rather than the dreaded 'dynastic wealth' of conspiracy theorists. Seems that 90% are 'new money' and self-made to some degree.

That's quite a jump you've made if it is based on this article. :coolsmiley:

The article talks about 265,290 people - even if they're families, that's about a million people. The world population is 7.7 Billion. That makes it .000001 % of the population.

marko 10-08-2019 12:12 PM

I've never been good at math and tend to talk in hyperbole...a bad combination
Quote:

Originally Posted by walkinwood (Post 2307857)
That's quite a jump you've made if it is based on this article. :coolsmiley:

The article talks about 265,290 people - even if they're families, that's about a million people. The world population is 7.7 Billion. That makes it .000001 % of the population.


USGrant1962 10-08-2019 12:13 PM

Even the UHNWs have problems, like the shortage of private jet pilots: https://www.itv.com/news/2019-10-07/...it-super-rich/

GrayHare 10-08-2019 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walkinwood (Post 2307857)
The article talks about 265,290 people - even if they're families, that's about a million people. The world population is 7.7 Billion. That makes it .000001 % of the population.

Closer to 0.01%, which is still a small number, or 1 in 10,000.

Mdlerth 10-08-2019 03:35 PM

You'd think rich people wouldn't have to cheapen their adjectives
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by USGrant1962 (Post 2307618)
In this survey, $30M invested wealth is the entry fee. But that is "chump change" for the 2,804 billionaires worldwide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooch96 (Post 2307696)
And here I thought $20M was considered UHNW. I mustíve read that in 2005 or something.

In a crowd containing over 2800 billionaires, folks holding a mere 30 million would be the poor relations. And at the tippy-top, guys like Bezos and Buffet must see routine daily variability of a billion or more in the value of their empires. Is there some logical or legal reasoning for setting the threshold for UHNW at 30M?

I certainly wouldn't turn it down, but 30M doesn't feel very "ultra" to me.

rodi 10-08-2019 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko (Post 2307671)
To your stats, I'm a bit surprised at the low % of real estate holdings.

Remember they were only looking at "invested wealth"... so that 2nd, 3rd, and 4th home don't count in their "invested wealth"... In other words - not a lot of landlords in the bunch. And if you own a corporation, and that corp owns a building or 10... that's not counted as real estate in your wealth investment category.

USGrant1962 10-08-2019 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mdlerth (Post 2307935)
In a crowd containing over 2800 billionaires, folks holding a mere 30 million would be the poor relations. And at the tippy-top, guys like Bezos and Buffet must see routine daily variability of a billion or more in the value of their empires. Is there some logical or legal reasoning for setting the threshold for UHNW at 30M?

I certainly wouldn't turn it down, but 30M doesn't feel very "ultra" to me.


Well, the ULTIMATE SOURCE OF ALL INVESTING WISDOM on the world wide web suggests that $30M is the number: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/u...uals-uhnwi.asp

But this may be a circular argument, perhaps Investopedia got their definition from Wealth-X?

Interesting quote from that article:


Quote:

UHNWIs keep a close eye on their wealth and tend to manage it themselves. Among families with more than $200 million in assets, only 20% give their financial advisers full discretion to make portfolio changes; 44% give limited discretion, and 36% gave no discretion to their advisers and portfolio managers.

timemoveson 10-08-2019 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mdlerth (Post 2307935)
In a crowd containing over 2800 billionaires, folks holding a mere 30 million would be the poor relations. And at the tippy-top, guys like Bezos and Buffet must see routine daily variability of a billion or more in the value of their empires. Is there some logical or legal reasoning for setting the threshold for UHNW at 30M?

I certainly wouldn't turn it down, but 30M doesn't feel very "ultra" to me.

Interesting. I would say it's pretty "ultra". At over $10M myself at a relatively young age, I can readily imagine $30M. At $30M, you are virtually completely insulated from the cares of the world or could easily make your life operate that way. And that would include your immediate family, and the next generations. I would classify that as "ultra" in my books.

walkinwood 10-08-2019 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayHare (Post 2307870)
Closer to 0.01%, which is still a small number, or 1 in 10,000.

Damn! Brain fart! I divided it by 100 to get the percentage instead of multiplying.

grayv 10-08-2019 08:45 PM

$30M could produce $1M in annual income. maybe that factored into their minimum UHNW

audreyh1 10-08-2019 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timemoveson (Post 2308019)
Interesting. I would say it's pretty "ultra". At over $10M myself at a relatively young age, I can readily imagine $30M. At $30M, you are virtually completely insulated from the cares of the world or could easily make your life operate that way. And that would include your immediate family, and the next generations. I would classify that as "ultra" in my books.

Still wouldn’t feel comfortable buying and then staffing a very large yacht or buying a Gulfstream.

marko 10-09-2019 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walkinwood (Post 2308078)
Damn! Brain fart! I divided it by 100 to get the percentage instead of multiplying.

So I wasn't the only one with bad math! :laugh: It's ok. Numbers is hard.

GravitySucks 10-09-2019 09:43 AM

Rising "Needs"
I'd imagine $10M would shield me from the vagaries of life. But then 20 years ago I thought $1M would.
In reality a lousy million would let me provide clothing, food and shelter to all my close family and probably leave something for the decendants.
Quote:

Originally Posted by timemoveson (Post 2308019)
Interesting. I would say it's pretty "ultra". At over $10M myself at a relatively young age, I can readily imagine $30M. At $30M, you are virtually completely insulated from the cares of the world or could easily make your life operate that way. And that would include your immediate family, and the next generations. I would classify that as "ultra" in my books.



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