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-   -   If NE Florida is not Full, it sure will be soon! (https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f29/if-ne-florida-is-not-full-it-sure-will-be-soon-102215.html)

ShokWaveRider 02-17-2020 07:57 AM

If NE Florida is not Full, it sure will be soon!
 
History: Our next door neighbors of 8 years have become good friends since moving to Florida, they are from Connecticut. They still have a small place in Connecticut as they like to spend Christmas & NY with their Son and his family. Their daughter has since moved locally to Fernandina Beach.

Well, their son and his family have decided to come down also to be within spitting distance of the Grandparents. As a result we have all been going out as a group looking for homes in their price range, and sending them back the info. They would select homes on Zillow or whatever and we would go and check them out. They come down every couple of weeks to look themselves at our short list.

This weekend was no exception and we were out Saturday and Sunday checking stuff out. For those interested their price range is $350k to $450k. Their son works from home and their Daughter in law got a job on their last visit. They are both very well educated.

To the Point. We cannot believe how many homes they are building within a 15 mile radius of our relatively sleepy beach town, within a reasonable commuter distance of JAX. I would go as far as to say thousands of condos and even more single family homes are being built. Our county has excellent schools and access to some of the best healthcare in Florida, the beach is 10 - 20 minutes away from these new developments, that probably helps.

There is a big city within 40 minutes, and easy access to 2 major airports JAX & MCO and 2 smaller ones.

In 10 years time I can see Jacksonville stretching 5 or ten miles into the it's neighboring counties, it is has been going on for the last 5 years. I would consider it a MCOL area, but this is not deterring young families from moving down. We are not all old retirees anymore.

JoeWras 02-17-2020 08:35 AM

I find that area interesting for another reason: it is in a near hurricane drought area. The geometry of the coastline nearly makes it hurricane proof for a hard direct hit. Yeah, you can get it from the backside, or maybe a glancing blow. But this area doesn't get the true straight on cat 3, 4, 5 hits that the lower penninsula, Gulf coast, SC or NC get

moneymaker 02-17-2020 08:39 AM

We really like st Augustine. What town are you in?

ShokWaveRider 02-17-2020 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeWras (Post 2371891)
I find that area interesting for another reason: it is in a near hurricane drought area. The geometry of the coastline nearly makes it hurricane proof for a hard direct hit. Yeah, you can get it from the backside, or maybe a glancing blow. But this area doesn't get the true straight on cat 3, 4, 5 hits that the lower penninsula, Gulf coast, SC or NC get

I am keeping my fingers and toes well crossed, but that was a key influence when we moved here 14 years ago when we retired.

That and the fact that we have a little change in seasons with a break from constant heat, and not so many snowbirds as the south and south west. It does get warm in the summer though do not get me wrong, and it does take some getting used to.

Also so far the traffic has never been and issue for us, and as far as we can tell night and day better than the south west is in season, and whenever we have visited. We did look for homes there many times, but were put off by the traffic and distance from the beach from the developments we liked. JAX can get very congested in rush hours, but we are further south and isolated from that. If we had a Costco, we would never go to JAX. The traffic in Pointe Vedra is a disaster at the best of times and that makes Nocatee a no go for us. But there are a lot of young families who love it. The I4 corridor to and from Orlando is tedious, but we never go there but to catch a plane.

Some folk like world Golf Village, but that is too far from the beach for us. Being within 2 or 3 miles from the beach provides homes with a relatively constant coastal breeze that keeps the summer heat at bay, we are walking and cycling distance. The key is for a variety of reasons being in an "X Shaded or X flood zone" and concrete or concrete block construction, keeps insurance rates down and storm anxiety at bay. So far we have not needed to evacuate during a storm.

omni550 02-17-2020 09:17 AM

Well, with 1000 people moving (= relocating) to Florida DAILY, there have to be places for all of them to live.

Here in SWFL, I just saw an article in the paper this morning about how plans for expanding retail sites (like Costco, Sam's Club, other major national stores) are drying up. In fact, sites in Naples that had been approved for these retail expansions are now sitting undeveloped. Residential developers are quickly snapping them up and building high-density housing like apartments and condos.

omni

ShokWaveRider 02-17-2020 09:32 AM

What I did enjoy seeing was that it was not only Retirees, the majority of folks we ran into at the home showings were younger families. So it seems that NW FLA is attracting a good mix of ages rather than us old geriatric folk. Seems that new of the quality of our schools and healthcare is getting around. I did ask a couple of families what attracted them to this area, and that was their answer.

Just check these out on Zillow.

https://www.zillow.com/ponte-vedra-fl-32081/

https://www.zillow.com/ponte-vedra-fl-32259/

https://www.zillow.com/saint-augustine-fl-32092/

Badger 02-17-2020 11:07 AM

Move along. Nothing to see in NE Florida anyway. :whistling:


Cheers!

Bestwifeever 02-17-2020 01:00 PM

You better get working on that list of reasons not to move to NE Florida....

ShokWaveRider 02-17-2020 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever (Post 2372037)
You better get working on that list of reasons not to move to NE Florida....

Ask Badger he seems to know.

aja8888 02-17-2020 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider (Post 2372040)
Ask Badger he seems to know.

REWahoo has a list for Texas. Maybe you can borrow his and make it fit Fl.;D

tulak 02-17-2020 02:21 PM

Wow. Itís amazing what you can buy if youíre not in a HCOL area.

Dtail 02-17-2020 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider (Post 2371925)
What I did enjoy seeing was that it was not only Retirees, the majority of folks we ran into at the home showings were younger families. So it seems that NW FLA is attracting a good mix of ages rather than us old geriatric folk. Seems that new of the quality of our schools and healthcare is getting around. I did ask a couple of families what attracted them to this area, and that was their answer.

Just check these out on Zillow.

https://www.zillow.com/ponte-vedra-fl-32081/

https://www.zillow.com/ponte-vedra-fl-32259/

https://www.zillow.com/saint-augustine-fl-32092/

Appears that most housing is ~170 sq ft.
For housing under 20 years old but not new, it is more like 130 sq ft in the New Tampa suburbs.

ShokWaveRider 02-17-2020 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtail (Post 2372086)
Appears that most housing is ~170 sq ft.
For housing under 20 years old but not new, it is more like 130 sq ft in the New Tampa suburbs.

Yes, new are quite steep, but as I mentioned I consider it a MCOL area. There are some reasonable homes @ ~$160 a square ft, ideal for young professional families available for ~$400k. But Taxes are steep in some places (CDDs). But amenities are good to excellent.

Here are a couple for examples:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4...06073780_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...96335191_zpid/

Teacher Terry 02-17-2020 08:12 PM

That’s cheap compared to Northern Nevada.

ShokWaveRider 02-17-2020 08:33 PM

Some pockets are approaching HCOL status, but not as bad as some.

Venturer 02-18-2020 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider (Post 2371899)
I am keeping my fingers and toes well crossed, but that was a key influence when we moved here 14 years ago when we retired.

That and the fact that we have a little change in seasons with a break from constant heat, and not so many snowbirds as the south and south west. It does get warm in the summer though do not get me wrong, and it does take some getting used to.

Also so far the traffic has never been and issue for us, and as far as we can tell night and day better than the south west is in season, and whenever we have visited. We did look for homes there many times, but were put off by the traffic and distance from the beach from the developments we liked. JAX can get very congested in rush hours, but we are further south and isolated from that. If we had a Costco, we would never go to JAX. The traffic in Pointe Vedra is a disaster at the best of times and that makes Nocatee a no go for us. But there are a lot of young families who love it. The I4 corridor to and from Orlando is tedious, but we never go there but to catch a plane.

Some folk like world Golf Village, but that is too far from the beach for us. Being within 2 or 3 miles from the beach provides homes with a relatively constant coastal breeze that keeps the summer heat at bay, we are walking and cycling distance. The key is for a variety of reasons being in an "X Shaded or X flood zone" and concrete or concrete block construction, keeps insurance rates down and storm anxiety at bay. So far we have not needed to evacuate during a storm.

We used to vacation in Neptune Beach every summer in the early 70's. A couple of years ago we went down and wow what a change! Too crowded for me. A good friend of ours retired from the Navy in Yulee and stayed there for 3 years because of good access to VA hospital he said was one of the best he had found. He relocated to NC last year so he could be at a near 1/2 way point for his 2 kids. His son lives farther south in Fl.and daughter in NJ, now he says it isn't so bad which ever he wants to go visit.

Ohh yes and what I did yesterday is carry me grandestdaughter to the local park for a couple of hours play time, and then later in the day I carried her to softball practice.

Which Roger 02-18-2020 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger (Post 2371966)
Move along. Nothing to see in NE Florida anyway. :whistling:


No need to worry about me doing anything but move along. I'm solidly in the "I just don't get why anyone would want to live in Florida" camp.

Chuckanut 02-18-2020 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger (Post 2371966)
Move along. Nothing to see in NE Florida anyway. :whistling:

But, there will be! Florida will be one big extension of the Atlantic Ocean once global warming floods the place. It will sort of be like Atlantis, The Lost Continent - Florida- The Lost State.

Is NE Florida is the mountainous region of the state? If so it will be where tourists flock to to view things like the skyscrapers jutting out of the ocean, the remains of waterfront condos floating about, and be the spring board to the water world type theme parks - Disney's Under Water World, etc. Heck, Marine Land might make a comeback. ;D

Dtail 02-18-2020 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckanut (Post 2372399)
But, there will be! Florida will be one big extension of the Atlantic Ocean once global warming floods the place. It will sort of be like Atlantis, The Lost Continent -Florida- The Lost State.

Is NE Florida is the mountainous region of the state? If so it will be where tourists flock to to view things like the skyscrapers jutting out of the ocean, and be the spring board to the water world type theme parks - Disney's Under Water World, etc. Heck Marine Land might make a comeback. ;D

Mountains in FLA are all relative.
There is no hill higher than 500 feet in FLA.;D

Dash man 02-18-2020 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckanut (Post 2372399)
But, there will be! Florida will be one big extension of the Atlantic Ocean once global warming floods the place. It will sort of be like Atlantis, The Lost Continent - Florida- The Lost State.

Is NE Florida is the mountainous region of the state? If so it will be where tourists flock to to view things like the skyscrapers jutting out of the ocean, the remains of waterfront condos floating about, and be the spring board to the water world type theme parks - Disney's Under Water World, etc. Heck, Marine Land might make a comeback. ;D


I remember meeting a woman on a flight I was on back in 2006, just after we had bought out first property in Florida, near Tampa. I mentioned the home in conversation and she couldnít understand why I would have done that. She showed me maps of what Florida would look like in ten years, with most of it covered in water. She insisted I would lose my house within that time and I had wasted my money. The are around that home is still dry. I guess she had her timeframe wrong. [emoji23]

omni550 02-18-2020 10:00 AM

Just read another article the other day about how Florida is becoming a haven for "tax refugees". This has been going on for a while with retirees.

Nothing major in Florida, as far as I know, has changed tax-wise recently. I wonder if the recent (~last 2+ years) IRS tax changes or other states' taxes have changed?

Or are some people finding they can often work from home and thus pick sunny, low/no tax locations where to live?

omni

Dtail 02-18-2020 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omni550 (Post 2372424)
Just read another article the other day about how Florida is becoming a haven for "tax refugees". This has been going on for a while with retirees.

Nothing major in Florida, as far as I know, has changed tax-wise recently. I wonder if the recent (~last 2+ years) IRS tax changes or other states' taxes have changed?

Or are some people finding they can often work from home and thus pick sunny, low/no tax locations where to live?

omni

Bolded by me - this statement I have witnessed with increasing frequency in my complex.
So many times when I meet someone new and ask about the commute, they state they are working from home, or was transferred to Florida and then still working from home.

aja8888 02-18-2020 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omni550 (Post 2372424)

Or are some people finding they can often work from home and thus pick sunny, low/no tax locations where to live?

omni

What is this "work" you speak of? And why would you want to do it at home? ??? (or at all?)

Freedom56 02-18-2020 11:15 AM

I don't know about NE Florida, but SE Florida where we live continues to grow. Since we bought our condo in 2011 in Downtown West Palm Beach, six other high rise towers have gone up (mostly rental apartments) with now plans for four more. The downtown core of Fort Lauderdale is also going through it's transformation with more high rise condos popping up. Meanwhile, the construction cranes continue to pop up all over downtown Miami. Miami in my opinion, is becoming one of the nicest cities in North America. The transformation over the past two decades has been nothing short of stunning. The problem Florida faces is that affluent people are buying in the coastal areas leaving the interior areas to decline. You can drive a few miles in-land from the coast and you enter a battle zone. Nestled in those battle zones are gated communities with armed security and barriers to keep out people who don't reside there. The other problem Florida faces is the homeless situation which has become horrific although we have noticed that the police are doing more this year to keep the homeless away from the waterfront and marina in West Palm Beach. But they still come. It is becoming a place of stark contrasts. On one hand, you have three downtown cores (West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale, Miami) with modern high rise condos and apartments and a modern upscale transportation system (Brightline/Virgin trains) linking each other. But the homeless can be found sleeping around all this wonderful infrastructure.

Teacher Terry 02-18-2020 11:48 AM

I have been to Tampa and Miami and am not a fan. Too hot even in December.

Offgrid Organic Farmer 02-18-2020 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider (Post 2371871)
... In 10 years time I can see Jacksonville stretching 5 or ten miles into the it's neighboring counties, it is has been going on for the last 5 years. I would consider it a MCOL area, but this is not deterring young families from moving down. We are not all old retirees anymore.

The average age of Florida residents, ranks at around 3rd or 4th as 'oldest' state. With more younger people migrating there, this will keep Florida from ever becoming the retirement capital of the nation.

After I retired we migrated to the oldest state. This year will be our 18th year of retirement, we are still happy with our decision to settle here.

My wife lived in Florida for a year before I met her, she has no desire to return to Florida.

A couple of the boats that I served on were homeported in Kings Bay Georgia, at that time to find the nearest bar we had to drive across the state line into Florida.

I have been on boats that surfaced at Port Canaveral, a few times. There were some great bars in that area.

This California boy is happy to be living out retirement in Maine.

:)

ShokWaveRider 02-18-2020 12:09 PM

We are glad a lot of you old codgers dislike Florida, but make a point of telling us so. Who are YOU trying to convince? We are also glad to see younger folks moving here for the opportunities that are becoming abundant, evening out the age gaps.

As far as living under water, it is very unlikely to happen in our lifetime, in the meantime we will continue to enjoy the sunshine, obvious lack of snow, sleet and those awful bleak winter months. If it does happen in our later lifetime, well that is what good well thought out insurance is for.

Not to mention all that nice scenery that comes to the beach every weekend.

Teacher Terry 02-18-2020 12:13 PM

I think some people need a change of seasons. I wouldn’t want to live in Southern California either.

ShokWaveRider 02-18-2020 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry (Post 2372508)
I think some people need a change of seasons. I wouldnít want to live in Southern California either.

That is why we chose NE Florida, it does offer that to a point, without the nasty cold parts.

Dtail 02-18-2020 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry (Post 2372508)
I think some people need a change of seasons. I wouldnít want to live in Southern California either.

We have 3 seasons.
Warm, Hot and Hotter.;D

aja8888 02-18-2020 06:33 PM

No one ever talks about the bugs in these threads. We have our share in Texas too. ;D

wyecrabber1 02-18-2020 06:34 PM

My wife and I purchased our home outside of St. Augustine last April in World Golf Villages. We purchased the model home and leased it back to the builder for 12 months. We take possession next month. We have family/friends that moved to the Ponte Vedra area 20 years ago. We looked at PV and Nocatee -- PV was a little expensive. Nocatee is beautiful, but traffic is becoming a real problem. There are a number of new communities off of 95 west of St. Augustine -- a lot of growth is coming for reasons the previous poster mentioned. I was surprised that our auto, homeowners insurance was significant less compared to our Baltimore suburb. We got more for our real estate in Florida vs. Maryland.

Heading down to St. Augustine this weekend towing my boat and other toys.

ShokWaveRider 02-18-2020 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyecrabber1 (Post 2372667)
Heading down to St. Augustine this weekend towing my boat and other toys.

The lighthouse has a nice boat ramp. Green Tea has the best Chinese take out in town. ;)

socca 02-18-2020 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyecrabber1 (Post 2372667)
...but traffic is becoming a real problem.

Some Florida license plates sport the slogan ENDLESS SUMMER. I'm still waiting for the Florida DMV to release a plate adorned with ENDLESS TRAFFIC. :popcorn:

Sunset 02-19-2020 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry (Post 2372228)
Thatís cheap compared to Northern Nevada.

Wow... You are correct, all those CA folks must have bid up the home prices. :facepalm:

NW-Bound 02-19-2020 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever (Post 2372037)
You better get working on that list of reasons not to move to NE Florida....

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888 (Post 2372062)
REWahoo has a list for Texas. Maybe you can borrow his and make it fit Fl.;D


Just a short while ago, in a thread about Florida, there was a long list of bizarre transgressive acts by "Florida man" and "Florida woman".

I thought that it would make a good deterrence to keep people from moving there. ;D

ShokWaveRider 02-19-2020 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socca (Post 2372714)
Some Florida license plates sport the slogan ENDLESS SUMMER. I'm still waiting for the Florida DMV to release a plate adorned with ENDLESS TRAFFIC. :popcorn:

Sounds Like SoCAL where we moved from in 2003. Main reason we left SoCAL was traffic! That and there were simply too many people everywhere. The HCOL never bothered us as one gets what one pays for. But the Traffic and sheer volume of people is a different story. What we do miss is the weather.

JoeWras 02-19-2020 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888 (Post 2372665)
No one ever talks about the bugs in these threads. We have our share in Texas too. ;D

Both have poisonous snakes too.

Teacher Terry 02-19-2020 10:04 AM

Sunset, we live in a 1950’s ranch that is 1400 sq ft. It’s worth 330k. It’s a combination of California retirees and that 30 tech companies have moved in.

teejayevans 02-19-2020 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeWras (Post 2371891)
I find that area interesting for another reason: it is in a near hurricane drought area. The geometry of the coastline nearly makes it hurricane proof for a hard direct hit. Yeah, you can get it from the backside, or maybe a glancing blow. But this area doesn't get the true straight on cat 3, 4, 5 hits that the lower penninsula, Gulf coast, SC or NC get

You have just cursed the NE Florida region, now itís almost guaranteed they are going to get hit this year.

MichaelB 02-19-2020 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teejayevans (Post 2372972)
You have just cursed the NE Florida region, now itís almost guaranteed they are going to get hit this year.

As long as itís not South Florida ... :)

Badger 02-19-2020 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888 (Post 2372665)
No one ever talks about the bugs in these threads. We have our share in Texas too. ;D

Not only are there "bugs" (2-2.5" cockroaches, scorpions, disease carrying mosquitoes, etc.) but also coyotes, poisonous snakes, and alligators (sometimes referred to as mobile speed-bumps) all over Florida. Then you have all the tourists who have forgotten how to drive, the hurricanes/nor'easters, and 90+ humidity.

I've lived here since 1960 and my wife since 1950.

Florida ain't for wimps.



Cheers!

Bestwifeever 02-19-2020 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound (Post 2372827)
Just a short while ago, in a thread about Florida, there was a long list of bizarre transgressive acts by "Florida man" and "Florida woman".

I thought that it would make a good deterrence to keep people from moving there. ;D

I am just now listening to my favorite funny Florida fiction writer Tim Dorsey's "Naked Came the Florida Man." It's the 23rd in his series about Robin Hood-ish serial murderer Serge Storm who drives all around Florida and kills in very creative ways only the folks who have it coming. The plots have all blended together, but still funny. We don't have a Florida road trip planned this year (we are going twice, but flying this time)--we usually listen to them while driving there.

braumeister 02-19-2020 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever (Post 2373033)
I am just now listening to my favorite funny Florida fiction writer Tim Dorsey's "Naked Came the Florida Man."

I love Serge and Coleman, and I've read all of them, but haven't seen this one yet. Thanks for the heads up!

ShokWaveRider 02-19-2020 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger (Post 2373016)
I've lived here since 1960 and my wife since 1950.

Florida ain't for wimps.

+10 We could not agree more. So... All the whiners, complainers and weather wimps who are too thin skinned to stand a little humidity, and all those scaredy-cats who are afraid of a few critters should keep well away, and refrain from posting the same old things time after time just for the sake of it, we heard the first time. Florida is better off without them, we have enough of our own. ;D

Sojourner 02-19-2020 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Which Roger (Post 2372346)
I'm solidly in the "I just don't get why anyone would want to live in Florida" camp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger (Post 2373016)
Not only are there "bugs" (2-2.5" cockroaches, scorpions, disease carrying mosquitoes, etc.) but also coyotes, poisonous snakes, and alligators (sometimes referred to as mobile speed-bumps) all over Florida. Then you have all the tourists who have forgotten how to drive, the hurricanes/nor'easters, and 90+ humidity.

+1000

Unfortunately for me, I have a number of close relatives who live in FL, so I have to endure it for a few long weekends every year or two. Otherwise, I'd never set foot there. Fascinated by it and loved it as a kid, but those days are long gone.

misshathaway 02-19-2020 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger (Post 2373016)
Not only are there "bugs" (2-2.5" cockroaches, scorpions, disease carrying mosquitoes, etc.) but also coyotes, poisonous snakes, and alligators (sometimes referred to as mobile speed-bumps) all over Florida.
Cheers!

OTOH Palmetto bugs make excellent cat toys.

Dtail 02-19-2020 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger (Post 2373016)
Not only are there "bugs" (2-2.5" cockroaches, scorpions, disease carrying mosquitoes, etc.) but also coyotes, poisonous snakes, and alligators (sometimes referred to as mobile speed-bumps) all over Florida. Then you have all the tourists who have forgotten how to drive, the hurricanes/nor'easters, and 90+ humidity.

I've lived here since 1960 and my wife since 1950.

Florida ain't for wimps.



Cheers!

In my 2.5 years here, I haven't seen a scorpion yet, but who knows....

NW-Bound 02-19-2020 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever (Post 2373033)
I am just now listening to my favorite funny Florida fiction writer Tim Dorsey's "Naked Came the Florida Man." It's the 23rd in his series about Robin Hood-ish serial murderer Serge Storm who drives all around Florida and kills in very creative ways only the folks who have it coming. The plots have all blended together, but still funny. We don't have a Florida road trip planned this year (we are going twice, but flying this time)--we usually listen to them while driving there.

A funny fiction about a serial murderer? Do I want to check this out? :rolleyes:

Bestwifeever 02-19-2020 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound (Post 2373126)
A funny fiction about a serial murderer? Do I want to check this out? :rolleyes:

There is not a lot of socially redeeming value to these books but they are laugh out loud funny--the victims are usually scammers of poor or old or very young people. Maybe an acquired taste: ďDorseyís novels are unfailingly entertaining... Serge is, hands down, the most smoothly charming, irrepressibly goofy, joyfully out-of-his-mind series lead in contemporary mystery fiction.... Donít miss this one.Ē (Booklist )

I have never actually read any of these books but have listened to all of them (thanks, Public Library downloadable audiobooks!) and they make me look forward to a nice long road trip.

Lewis Clark 02-19-2020 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socca (Post 2372714)
Some Florida license plates sport the slogan ENDLESS SUMMER. I'm still waiting for the Florida DMV to release a plate adorned with ENDLESS TRAFFIC. :popcorn:

Not all of Florida is endless traffic. And many states have regions with more traffic than most of Florida.

When I lived near Charleston, SC, the summers were hotter and more humid than in most of Florida.

Different strokes for different folks. Every area has both pros and cons. Live wherever you like.

kjpliny 02-19-2020 08:19 PM

Not sure where we'll retire to, but I don't think Florida will be it. One thing that those zillow listings reminded me of is how much I despise newly built large homes squashed onto tiny plots where you can basically almost touch your neighbors house. They should be building on 2 acre lots with lots of privacy and green space...less noise. No way will I consider moving to sardines-ville. Not a chance.

NW-Bound 02-19-2020 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever (Post 2373143)
There is not a lot of socially redeeming value to these books but they are laugh out loud funny--the victims are usually scammers of poor or old or very young people. Maybe an acquired taste: “Dorsey’s novels are unfailingly entertaining... Serge is, hands down, the most smoothly charming, irrepressibly goofy, joyfully out-of-his-mind series lead in contemporary mystery fiction.... Don’t miss this one.” (Booklist )

I have never actually read any of these books but have listened to all of them (thanks, Public Library downloadable audiobooks!) and they make me look forward to a nice long road trip.

I have not read any fiction in a while, as I am a non-fiction reader.

However, you talked me into this. "Naked came the Florida man" on hold for me at the library (I prefer to read paper books).

Thanks.

teejayevans 02-19-2020 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjpliny (Post 2373273)
Not sure where we'll retire to, but I don't think Florida will be it. One thing that those zillow listings reminded me of is how much I despise newly built large homes squashed onto tiny plots where you can basically almost touch your neighbors house. They should be building on 2 acre lots with lots of privacy and green space...less noise. No way will I consider moving to sardines-ville. Not a chance.

Wyoming or Dakotas are calling your name.
Actually you can find this in Florida too, but you wonít be near civilization. As you age, living where you have services (like Uber, hospitals...) becomes a necessity.

Scuba 02-20-2020 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider (Post 2372843)
Sounds Like SoCAL where we moved from in 2003. Main reason we left SoCAL was traffic! That and there were simply too many people everywhere. The HCOL never bothered us as one gets what one pays for. But the Traffic and sheer volume of people is a different story. What we do miss is the weather.



Traffic & crowds & other urban problems motivated us to move from Coastal So CA to Palm Springs. Still relatively HCOL but lower than the Coast, no humidity, hurricanes, or bugs.

Andre1969 02-20-2020 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjpliny (Post 2373273)
Not sure where we'll retire to, but I don't think Florida will be it. One thing that those zillow listings reminded me of is how much I despise newly built large homes squashed onto tiny plots where you can basically almost touch your neighbors house. They should be building on 2 acre lots with lots of privacy and green space...less noise. No way will I consider moving to sardines-ville. Not a chance.

That would actually be my dream house...large house, 2 acre lot, lots of privacy. Only problem is, with land prices being at such a premium, you're not going to get that in any of the more popular zipcodes. Unless you pay dearly for it.

Also, the positioning of the house on the lot makes a world of difference. There's a luxury housing development near my old house that went up before the housing bust. Most houses on maybe .7-1.0 acre lots, and they tended to be in the 5,000+ square foot range. Normally, that would sound like a fairly decent lot to me. But, the houses were usually set back pretty far from the road, so you had a lot of front yard, but not a lot of back yard. And, the houses were so big, that even though the lots were fairly large, they still felt a bit cramped together. And since it was a new neighborhood, built on an old turf farm, there really wasn't much privacy, as it had all been clear-cut.

I think a lot of people really don't want a large lot. They might like the idea of the privacy, but then once it comes time to maintain it, the charm gets lost. Of course, some people enjoy gardening and yardwork, and others can afford to pay for a lawn service. But, still, it's not the life for everyone.

Oh, one advantage of Florida...if those cockroaches really are the size of Matchbox cars, seems to me it would be easier to keep them out! :p Although, I imagine they still manage to find their way into some pretty small crevices.

JoeWras 02-20-2020 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by misshathaway (Post 2373107)
OTOH Palmetto bugs make excellent cat toys.

Very true! Cats love 'em.

My favorite trick of these guys is when they decide to take to a drunken flight. They don't want to land on you, but they are so inaccurate, your hair may get in the way.

One of my neighbors from NY moved back after 6 months due to two things: 1) bugs, 2) crime. I think the bugs bothered her more.

JoeWras 02-20-2020 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre1969 (Post 2373333)
Oh, one advantage of Florida...if those cockroaches really are the size of Matchbox cars, seems to me it would be easier to keep them out! :p Although, I imagine they still manage to find their way into some pretty small crevices.

They will find a way in. They can get through the tiniest slits. And I've even had them fly in behind me when I had the door open. Yes, fly.

Dtail 02-20-2020 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeWras (Post 2373347)
They will find a way in. They can get through the tiniest slits. And I've even had them fly in behind me when I had the door open. Yes, fly.

The infamous flying Palmetto Bugs.;D

ShokWaveRider 02-20-2020 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba (Post 2373328)
Traffic & crowds & other urban problems motivated us to move from Coastal So CA to Palm Springs. Still relatively HCOL but lower than the Coast, no humidity, hurricanes, or bugs.

We liked Palm Springs also, but missed the beach vibe. Otherwise we would be there too.

kjpliny 02-20-2020 02:28 PM

Place this home down in Florida and I might reconsider it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LsYQeHSSCU

As it turns out, New Hampshire has no sales or income tax and this past summer we actually drove past this particular house, checking out the town of Bedford on our way up to the white mountains. While the neighborhood is very nice, the property taxes are up there. Not the best place for a retirement budget.

In any case, the wine room is killer.

JoeWras 02-20-2020 02:31 PM

Oh, and since we were talking Palmetto Bugs, I want to provide a PSA. They are in North Carolina too. Don't come to NC if you can't stand the huge roaches. Thank you.

ShokWaveRider 02-20-2020 03:00 PM

Honestly, we wish folks would avoid NE Fla. Probably classified as from Fernandina Beach to about New Smyrna Beach (First coast).

But whoever has been from Miami up through Ft Lauderdale through to Melbourne on the East Coast ,and from Naples up to Tampa on the West coast, will realize that those areas are already full. The 900 - 1000 people a day fleeing the over taxes frozen North sadly have to go somewhere. At the rate they are building homes as mentioned in the OP, in the next 10 years we will be just like those other areas mentioned.

As for the Palmetto Bugs, locals like them as easy to catch protein with a crunch.. :)

kitesurfer2 02-21-2020 04:47 AM

I love Jacksonville. I've lived here since 1981. i've also lived in NC, Tenn, Va, NY city. I've been to every state east of the Missippi, and maybe half on the west side, including Alaska. Also made a couple trips into Canada and Mexico , and another dozen or so European countries. so my point is, i've seen ,how others live . I am very happy in jacksonvile.

ShokWaveRider 02-21-2020 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitesurfer2 (Post 2373837)
I love Jacksonville. I've lived here since 1981. i've also lived in NC, Tenn, Va, NY city. I've been to every state east of the Missippi, and maybe half on the west side, including Alaska. Also made a couple trips into Canada and Mexico , and another dozen or so European countries. so my point is, i've seen ,how others live . I am very happy in jacksonvile.

Hi Neighbor! A lot of folk like/love JAX, I find it a little crowded for my personal liking, and prefer to be a little further south, however we know a lot of folk that like you are very happy there. You certainly have ALL the services you could ever want or need on your doorstep. Not too mention some of the best healthcare access and providers in the country.

We do have to drive a little further than you do to get to Costco and Trader Joes though... :)

Badger 02-21-2020 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider (Post 2373860)
Hi Neighbor! A lot of folk like/love JAX, I find it a little crowded for my personal liking, and prefer to be a little further south, however we know a lot of folk that like you are very happy there. You certainly have ALL the services you could ever want or need on your doorstep. Not too mention some of the best healthcare access and providers in the country.

We do have to drive a little further than you do to get to Costco and Trader Joes though... :)


+1
We live directly east of Jax and only drive there when absolutely necessary. Lived in 6 states and 1 foreign country, been to all the states but 4 and traveled to 22 foreign countries and Jax is just average. It is getting more crowded with rapid overbuilding of apartments/condo/housing with the resulting increase in traffic. Good medical facilities, limited tourism so far, lots of gas stations, and lots of mediocre restaurants. It is trying to improve but it has been an uphill battle for many decades with a few back-slides. Sure beats having snow in the winter though.



Cheers!

kitesurfer2 02-21-2020 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger (Post 2373871)
+1
We live directly east of Jax and only drive there when absolutely necessary. Lived in 6 states and 1 foreign country, been to all the states but 4 and traveled to 22 foreign countries and Jax is just average. It is getting more crowded with rapid overbuilding of apartments/condo/housing with the resulting increase in traffic. Good medical facilities, limited tourism so far, lots of gas stations, and lots of mediocre restaurants. It is trying to improve but it has been an uphill battle for many decades with a few back-slides. Sure beats having snow in the winter though.



Cheers!

too funny. you live somewhere in Europe maybe? haha still love my little average home. I will never tell why.

ShokWaveRider 02-21-2020 09:48 AM

No one will be moving here today! It is a mere 50 Degrees F at the beach. HATE That!

aja8888 02-21-2020 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider (Post 2373968)
No one will be moving here today! It is a mere 50 Degrees F at the beach. HATE That!

You have just received our cold front of two days ago! ;D

misshathaway 02-22-2020 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider (Post 2373968)
No one will be moving here today! It is a mere 50 Degrees F at the beach. HATE That!

This is not why i moved to Florida. I came down here with shorts, flip-flops and jeans. Had to rebuy leggings, a couple of hoodies, a HAT and GLOVES for running. It was 48 when I left this morning. Florida wind, I swear even at 15mph with temps in the low 50s, is brutal. Rude awakening.

You can so tell who is a native and who is not. While I'm trying to move in my snowsuit other runners are out in shorts and a t-shirt, maybe a hat. They know that if you wait an hour or so things will get warmer. There were probably people in the heated outdoor pool but I can't even think about that without getting cold.

Yoheadden 02-22-2020 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjpliny (Post 2373273)
Not sure where we'll retire to, but I don't think Florida will be it. One thing that those zillow listings reminded me of is how much I despise newly built large homes squashed onto tiny plots where you can basically almost touch your neighbors house. They should be building on 2 acre lots with lots of privacy and green space...less noise. No way will I consider moving to sardines-ville. Not a chance.

Couldnít agree more about houses being shoehorned into tiny lots, but Iím pretty sure itís not just in FL. Almost all of the new developments we see are just row after row of houses sandwiched together.

We have an acre and from where our house is positioned on our street, we have a pretty nice view of the surrounding hills. One of the things we cherish is the ďspaceĒ that we have from our neighbors. It would be a difficult adjustment moving to a smaller lot with the only view being my neighbors house. :(

Scuba 02-22-2020 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider (Post 2373356)
We liked Palm Springs also, but missed the beach vibe. Otherwise we would be there too.



Yeah, I understand that. So far, when we miss the beach town we lived in before, we just go there and stay a few days. Itís only a 2 hour drive. The mountains and hiking in the desert are awesome! We did keep our beachfront condo though, just in case we decide otherwise down the road.

Bdroc 02-25-2020 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omni550 (Post 2371916)
Well, with 1000 people moving (= relocating) to Florida DAILY, there have to be places for all of them to live.

Here in SWFL, I just saw an article in the paper this morning about how plans for expanding retail sites (like Costco, Sam's Club, other major national stores) are drying up. In fact, sites in Naples that had been approved for these retail expansions are now sitting undeveloped. Residential developers are quickly snapping them up and building high-density housing like apartments and condos.

omni

Punta Gorda is a smaller town with manageable traffic. But a large Lenar development is filling up quickly and a large Allegiant resort will be opening in just over a year.

meleana 02-25-2020 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Which Roger (Post 2372346)
No need to worry about me doing anything but move along. I'm solidly in the "I just don't get why anyone would want to live in Florida" camp.




Same here.

meleana 02-25-2020 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoheadden (Post 2374442)
Couldnít agree more about houses being shoehorned into tiny lots, but Iím pretty sure itís not just in FL. Almost all of the new developments we see are just row after row of houses sandwiched together.

We have an acre and from where our house is positioned on our street, we have a pretty nice view of the surrounding hills. One of the things we cherish is the ďspaceĒ that we have from our neighbors. It would be a difficult adjustment moving to a smaller lot with the only view being my neighbors house. :(


We just left our 32 year old colonial in NY which was on 10 1/2 acres in the woods (set 700 feet back from the country road), for a development in the NH lakes region where 85 homes are on 10 1/2 acres! Yup- sandwiched together on leased lots (with no rent-HOA owned- unique). Why would we do that?


Because as we are retired the isolation of our former home was not good. No friends or family nearby there either.



I still miss our former home- as it was big and much nicer than the new build cottage we are living in now and the cost of this little home was as much as we could get for our former home yet is half the size! Plus only having tree views from our bedrooms; the other views are the walls of the homes around us, which I have had to put up window film for privacy. In our other home, never even had curtains.


Not to mention right now construction going on all around us as the development is not complete. Not a 55 + community but a bit like it with weekenders and snowbirds and some full timers like us.


Still, I think in the long run this was the right decision. Our son lives and works nearby and we needed to get out of NY. Even if we end up hating it, no way will I ever go through moving again. It was hell.

socca 02-25-2020 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdroc (Post 2376368)
Punta Gorda is a smaller town with manageable traffic. But a large Lenar development is filling up quickly and a large Allegiant resort will be opening in just over a year.

The number of homes for sale in the 33950 zip code is astonishing. Don't take my word for it - take a peek here: Punta Gorda homes for sale

Perhaps the folks who moved to Punta Gorda to escape the Manatee County / Sarasota County madness have discovered that the madness has followed them down there? ???

meleana 02-25-2020 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by misshathaway (Post 2374430)
This is not why i moved to Florida. I came down here with shorts, flip-flops and jeans. Had to rebuy leggings, a couple of hoodies, a HAT and GLOVES for running. It was 48 when I left this morning. Florida wind, I swear even at 15mph with temps in the low 50s, is brutal. Rude awakening.

You can so tell who is a native and who is not. While I'm trying to move in my snowsuit other runners are out in shorts and a t-shirt, maybe a hat. They know that if you wait an hour or so things will get warmer. There were probably people in the heated outdoor pool but I can't even think about that without getting cold.


Pretty funny! Here in NH at 45 degrees some guys had shorts on and a construction worker was shirtless! To me with the sun out it felt like spring. My husband got his camping chair and sat out on the front porch. LOL!


One of my favorite things when I go to our timeshare resort in Vermont is swimming in the heated outdoor pool when it is snowing! Or in the Fall when the leaves are falling down into it! Heck- I put my floaty in an ice cold mountain lake every year in the White Mountains. I could stay on it for hours- my legs and torso covered with water!

LRDave 02-25-2020 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeWras (Post 2372846)
Both have poisonous snakes too.

...can't....help...myself.......

Snakes (a very few) are venomous. Mushrooms (more than a few) are poisonous.:)

Global Wizzo 02-25-2020 06:46 PM

We are a little farther south in the Daytona Beach area. What I see as the biggest issue in Florida is the un-contained Developers. They own the political system. Local governments don’t control costs, but constantly try to grow the tax base.

Look around at the aquifer recharge areas. Many are being paved over. Parking lots, Appartments, roads, etc. Viera near Melbourne is a good example. Nothing 20 years ago, solid coverage now and spreading.

There is already salt/brackish water incursion in areas where pumping exceeds recharge.

There are lots of other issues, but ultimately this one will control the local growth. My opinion.

Developers here level acres of trees and fill and compact wetlands. The legislature just approved a new toll/interstate corridor down the west side of the state in the Tampa to south GA line. The only reason was to allow the developers more opportunities.

BTW, I’m not much of an Environmentalist, just hate to see the state ruined.

Bdroc 02-25-2020 06:52 PM

I think you always see a lot of homes for sale in many parts of Florida because of the average age of the occupants. A 70 year old couple retires to Florida, one spouse dies, the other moves back north near their kids.

LRDave 02-25-2020 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Global Wizzo (Post 2376389)
We are a little farther south in the Daytona Beach area. What I see as the biggest issue in Florida is the un-contained Developers. They own the political system. Local governments donít control costs, but constantly try to grow the tax base.

Look around at the aquifer recharge areas. Many are being paved over. Parking lots, Appartments, roads, etc. Viera near Melbourne is a good example. Nothing 20 years ago, solid coverage now and spreading.

There is already salt/brackish water incursion in areas where pumping exceeds recharge.

There are lots of other issues, but ultimately this one will control the local growth. My opinion.

Developers here level acres of trees and fill and compact wetlands. The legislature just approved a new toll/interstate corridor down the west side of the state in the Tampa to south GA line. The only reason was to allow the developers more opportunities.

BTW, Iím not much of an Environmentalist, just hate to see the state ruined.

Clean water is one of those issues that us humans (especially in the US) continually shoot behind the mark.

ShokWaveRider 02-25-2020 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Global Wizzo (Post 2376389)
We are a little farther south in the Daytona Beach area. What I see as the biggest issue in Florida is the un-contained Developers. They own the political system. Local governments donít control costs, but constantly try to grow the tax base.

I think it does depend on the County in Florida. The richer Counties tend to fair a little better. Collier and St. Johns being 2 that come to mind.

Badger 02-26-2020 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitesurfer2 (Post 2373907)
too funny. you live somewhere in Europe maybe? haha still love my little average home. I will never tell why.

Nope. Not Europe. We stop just short of the ocean. We may be part of Duval county but definitely NOT part of Jax. and our towns do not want to be. Jax tried their little tricks decades ago at consolidation and we told them on 2 separate votes that they could go pound sand.


Cheers!

eba1225 02-26-2020 05:52 AM

Hey you guys, keep J'ville nice. We will be moving there next year. We have our retirement house already in place. Were just waiting until the son completes college here in PA and then were moving to JAX near Mandarin. We currently live near Philadelphia so not expecting too much of a community change but we are looking forward to having a single level and warmer weather.:dance::dance:

Andre1969 02-26-2020 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdroc (Post 2376393)
I think you always see a lot of homes for sale in many parts of Florida because of the average age of the occupants. A 70 year old couple retires to Florida, one spouse dies, the other moves back north near their kids.

My Mom and stepdad have been talking about moving to Florida permanently for years. To the point they bought a house down there, back around 2002. They used the house as a rental, for about a year, but after that just started using it as a getaway/vacation home.

My Mom said that if anything happened to my stepdad, she'd move back up here to Maryland, in a heartbeat. BUT, they STILL haven't moved down there permanently, yet!

Also, they had some neighbors that they became chummy with. Well, a few years ago, the neighbors sold their house, and moved back to Pennsylvania to be closer to the grandkids. They love being close to family, but hate the weather. And apparently the tax/expense situation went up. I think they sold the home in Florida barely breaking even, but then their condo in PA was about the same price, but with added expenses of condo fees and such.

ShokWaveRider 02-26-2020 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger (Post 2376471)
Nope. Not Europe. We stop just short of the ocean. We may be part of Duval county but definitely NOT part of Jax. and our towns do not want to be. Jax tried their little tricks decades ago at consolidation and we told them on 2 separate votes that they could go pound sand.


Cheers!

We have friends in Fernandina.

Born2Fish 02-26-2020 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger (Post 2376471)
Nope. Not Europe. We stop just short of the ocean. We may be part of Duval county but definitely NOT part of Jax. and our towns do not want to be. Jax tried their little tricks decades ago at consolidation and we told them on 2 separate votes that they could go pound sand.


Cheers!

I grew up in Jax Beach but left in 1976 to pursue my career and have lived all over since.

Guess you are somewhere between Ponte Vedra Beach and Atlantic Beach...unless you settled in Mayport...or maybe further north toward Amelia Island Plantation, Fernandina Bch area.

When I lived in Jax Beach it wasn't on the radar for cold weather state retirees. Retirees all settled in south FL. Jax Beach life was surfboard, Jimmy Buffett, beach cruiser bicycle and flip flops. Very slow paced.

I have recently settled into my forever home in eastern NC near the beach. Tried to find something around my old stomping grounds but the RE prices were high relative to NC.

My family all relocated down below the Jax area and whenever we visit I always rent a place on the beach and have the family all come and stay with us. (I love S. Ponte Vedra/Vilano beach area.)

ShokWaveRider 02-26-2020 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born2Fish (Post 2376581)
When I lived in Jax Beach it wasn't on the radar for cold weather state retirees. Retirees all settled in south FL. Jax Beach life was surfboard, Jimmy Buffett, beach cruiser bicycle and flip flops. Very slow paced.

That is the unsung beauty of NE FLA (First Coast), Reasonable all year seasonal weather, but the uninformed northerners and most snow birds think life is better further south. All good for us, but I think that is changing.

kitesurfer2 02-27-2020 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger (Post 2376471)
Nope. Not Europe. We stop just short of the ocean. We may be part of Duval county but definitely NOT part of Jax. and our towns do not want to be. Jax tried their little tricks decades ago at consolidation and we told them on 2 separate votes that they could go pound sand.


Cheers!

you said 'east of jacksonville', that threw me off. thanks to you, everyone will read negative concerning Jacksonville. that is a very good thing! I like the beaches as they are. I like the Jacksonville where I live and I don't want it to change. good thing jax pounded sand :)

Perryinva 02-27-2020 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRDave (Post 2376384)
...can't....help...myself.......

Snakes (a very few) are venomous. Mushrooms (more than a few) are poisonous.:)

Thank you. You saved me from doing it. Like an episode of ďBonesĒ.

Out-to-Lunch 02-27-2020 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger (Post 2376471)
Nope. Not Europe. We stop just short of the ocean. We may be part of Duval county but definitely NOT part of Jax. and our towns do not want to be. Jax tried their little tricks decades ago at consolidation and we told them on 2 separate votes that they could go pound sand.


Cheers!

I am glad you posted that! I grew up in what I believe is the nation's oldest consolidated city/county, and I was under the impression (like many others) that Duval/Jax's consolidation was likewise complete. I find it interesting to have learned about that strip of communities that maintained their independence of the city. Hmmm, added to my list of possible locations....

ShokWaveRider 02-27-2020 09:27 AM

The thing about Ja is one can get anything they want there. There is a Mayo Clinic also and healthcare is abundant. Not sure I would like living in JAX real though, traffic is as bad a south west Florida at times, with no snowbird break, but it is sure nice having it just 40 minutes away. For us Pointe Vedra may as well be in JAX as the traffic is worse there, and even worse during golf season, but they do have a Trader Joe's, probably that is why.

ShokWaveRider 04-09-2020 04:10 PM

I think we may be getting a bit of a breather for a while. I know there is a thread of Covid-19 Benefits, could this also be one them?

Badger 04-10-2020 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider (Post 2407945)
I think we may be getting a bit of a breather for a while. I know there is a thread of Covid-19 Benefits, could this also be one them?

Traffic is being stopped at the border but quite a few cruise ships are being brought in to the ports in south and south west Florida that have been denied docking in other states and countries. I'm not sure how that will pan out but people need help.



Cheers!


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