The Blog of a Man Who Plans to Retire at 37

[Jack Key]

My name is Jack. Well, actually, it is not my real name. I've decided not to use my real name, because my blog will contain confidential data about my financial situation, and I don't like the idea that my friends and family could know such personal information. So why should you? Well, I have a plan. A plan about which I’m going to talk for the next 8 years, in details, to show you what steps I take in order to fulfill it.

This plan, you probably already have guessed it, is to be retired by age 37, that is, in less than 8 years from now. First of all, I need to tell you some facts. I'm not already rich. Today at 29, my net wealth is not more than 50 000$, RRSP included. More, I am an average worker, earning a salary between 57 000 and 65 000 Canadian $ (about US$44 000 to US$49 000). Well, I say average, it would be more accurate to say that, for a 29 years man, I earn more than the average young French-speaking worker in Quebec, Canada.

Follow my progress on my new blog:
The Blog of a Man Who Plans to Retire at 37
http://retireat37.blogspot.com

Regards,

Jack 8)

 

[retire@40]

Jack,

Could you tell us now how much net worth you plan on having at age 37 and your expected cost of living at 37?

What is your expected rate of return for the next 8 years and how much do you plan on saving each month?

Good luck on your quest.

 

[Hyperborea]

Hmmm, I just started to look it over and I already find some problems. I see this as part of the entry for today (Sept. 14th):

For instance, read some articles on http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/. Look particularly at the Top ten reasons to retire early and the general rules in How do I retire early? On this site, however, retiring early means "earlier than 65", not retiring at 37. It will give you a fair idea of how you can manage to retire before 65, but not how you can do it at 37.

That's definitely wrong. The author of www.retireearlyhomepage.com retired at 38 which, in my mind at least, is decidedly earlier than 65. In fact, it's almost 37.

 

[John Galt]

Even if the idea had taken root very early
(like 20 years old), I don't think I could have retired by 37. I had 3 children, the last when I was 40. I
wouldn't change any of that. What I could have done was gone 100% into real estate, which I enjoy and
which would have allowed me to work part time and be
my own boss,
if I could have managed my rampant workaholism.
I doubt I could have gotten it under control though,
until age did it for me

John Galt

 

[Jack Key]

Jack,

Could you tell us now how much net worth you plan on having at age 37 and your expected cost of living at 37?

What is your expected rate of return for the next 8 years and how much do you plan on saving each month?

Good luck on your quest.

First of all, thank you for answering. My project will be easier to achieve if I get help and feedback from other people who, like me, want to retire early.

I will detail my plan on my blog later, since I still have some things to verify. My expected rate of return for the next 8 years is 4% over the inflation rate, thus about 6%.

My net worth at age 37 would be about 130 000$ (canadian dollars) in my unregistered savings and about 120 000$ in my RRSP (equivalent to 401k).

What is particular with my project is not the rate of return on my investments or financials, but the way I plan to live with less than $14 000 before and after my retirement, with room for trips, provisions for contingencies, some dinners at the restaurant each month, etc. I'm particularly interested in personal savings: how to reduce your expenses without deprivation.

Regards,
Jack

 

[Zipper]

Jack, from a fellow Canadian (London ON)............you're full of sh*t!

 

[retire@40]

My expected rate of return for the next 8 years is 4% over the inflation rate, thus about 6%.  

My net worth at age 37 would be about 130 000$ (canadian dollars) in my unregistered savings and about 120 000$ in my RRSP (equivalent to 401k).

What is particular with my project is not the rate of return on my investments or financials, but the way I plan to live with less than $14 000 before and after my retirement, with room for trips, provisions for contingencies, some dinners at the restaurant each month, etc.

Only a 2% inflation rate? At best, I have always used a 3% inflation rate. Although I think 6% is a good overall expected rate of return.

What concerns me even more is that you think you can retire at age 37 with $250K Canadian ($193K US). That is virtually impossible unless you plan on ERing in a refrigerator box on some sidewalk.

How are you going to withdraw an inflation-adjusted $14K a year from a $250K investment for over 40 years?

I'd be curious to see what your retirement budget looks like in real dollars, especially if you think you can take trips and have restaurant dinners.

I still hope you make it, but I really don't see it happening with your current plan.

 

[malakito]

What is particular with my project is not the rate of return on my investments or financials, but the way I plan to live with less than $14 000 before and after my retirement, with room for trips, provisions for contingencies, some dinners at the restaurant each month, etc. I'm particularly interested in personal savings: how to reduce your expenses without deprivation.

Regards,
Jack

Jack (or whomever),

I wonder how you are doing your budgeting to come up with this $14,000 number.

I think one thing you may (or may not be) surprised to learn is that a budget created by reviewing your monthly bills and regular expenses will be too small by a factor of 1/3 to 1/2. The difference is explained by those "one time expenses", which tend to occur every month, even though every month the "one time expense" is a different expense.

Personally my approach is to log 100% of my expenses into Quicken, then ask it how much I spent over the last six months and multiply by 2 for an estimate of my target retirement expenses. I have found that while my month to month varies quite a bit, the 6 month rolling average is quite steady.

For what it's worth, $20K seems to be a good basic number to live on in the US for a single person in 2004, but people here on the board so $14K seems on the low side.

malakito.

 

[Jane]

Jack,

I am also a Canadian and I will be interested how you can live on 14K a year (I don't think Quebec is that much cheaper than Ontario but I can be wrong).

Do you have a car? (If you do, do you have a really cheap insurance?) Do you have a house? How much you spend on food, utilities, clothes, entertainment etc?

Jane

 

[Jack Key]

Jack,

I am also a Canadian and I will be interested how you can live on 14K a year (I don't think Quebec is that much cheaper than Ontario but I can be wrong).

Do you have a car? (If you do, do you have a really cheap insurance?) Do you have a house? How much you spend on food, utilities, clothes, entertainment etc?

Jane

According to statistics Canada, the After-tax low income cut-off in 2000 was, for a household of two living in a 100 000 - 500 000 city (which is my case), $15500 (Source: http://www.ccsd.ca/pubs/2000/fbpov00/chapter2.pdf).

$14k is my part, my wife will continue to bring her own income to the household, by way of her salary or her own retirement income. Thus, we should have $28k for a two-people household (we don't have children and don't plan to have any, btw this is not a decision related to my early retirement project).

Thus, $14k is above the low income cut-off. For a single, $12500 is the cutoff according to Stat Can.

However, people who earn $12500 a year have to pay their appartement or mortgage, which will not be my situation. More, they have to keep savings, I won't have to do so. Finally, during the part of my life before retirement, I will have a much higher income than that (I actually already did), so that I have already accumulated goods: brand new home furniture and appliances, computer, sport equipment, etc. While they will not last forever, I will start with more goods than the low income person. My expenses related to furniture and goods will be to replace things that get broken or too old.

For you other questions: yes, I own a four years car (small sized sedan), car insurance is $500 a year, we have a 2 bedrooms condo valued at $100 000 with a mortgage of $63000 on it. My net expenses are $1500 a month, that include mortage payment, city taxes, insurances, a $340 payment on car loan, food, fuel, condo fees, a $50 provision for contingencies (a low value due to the fact that in the last 10 years, I already have accumulated $10 000 as a provision), a budget for car maintenance ($75, I have accumulated $650 in this provision), $85 for house and car insurances, $30 electricity, $50 provision for summer vacations, $300 for other personal expenses (clothes, restaurant, entertainment).

Regards,

Jack 8)

 

[John Galt]

Jack is a deep thinker. The kind of person I referred to earlier that can successfully ER without a big pile. But,
you gotta be smart and you gotta want it. I opined that
I could not have done it by 37 in any case, but if my
circumstances had different (no kids, working spouse)
I know I could have worked it out. Creativity and motivation would have been the keys. Then, the only thing holding me back would have been how far I was
willing to cut back, because at 37 I had already run
a couple of companies and was deep into the high
consumption lifestyle, well before I had my epiphany.

John Galt

 

[retire@40]

$14k is my part, my wife will continue to bring her own income to the household, by way of her salary or her own retirement income. Thus, we should have $28k for a two-people household (we don't have children and don't plan to have any, btw this is not a decision related to my early retirement project).

I own a four years car (small sized sedan), car insurance is $500 a year, we have a 2 bedrooms condo valued at $100 000 with a mortgage of $63000 on it. My net expenses are $1500 a month, that include mortage payment, city taxes, insurances, a $340 payment on car loan, food, fuel, condo fees, a $50 provision for contingencies (a low value due to the fact that in the last 10 years, I already have accumulated $10 000 as a provision), a budget for car maintenance ($75, I have accumulated $650 in this provision), $85 for house and car insurances, $30 electricity, $50 provision for summer vacations, $300 for other personal expenses (clothes, restaurant, entertainment).

Ok, so now you are splitting your fixed expenses with your wife who also has income. I don't think you mentioned that before. Will she also be saving $250K and ERing with you, or will she continue to work?

Are you sure you listed all your expenses and that they are realistic? You didn't list the cost of heating your condo and telephone expenses, for example. And $340 a month for car loan, food, fuel, and condo fees seems low. I don't know too many places you can vacation if you only budget $600 a year for 2 people.

Again, it could be possible if you deprive yourself for the sake saying you are ERd, but I don't think it's the ER lifestyle I would want. To each his own.

 

[bow-tie]

Wow, Jack.
Those are great goals. Seems that those #'s would be cutting it awful close, though. I reckon that the spouse and her respective savings/working would be the X-factor that determines long-term success.

Best of luck.

 

[Jane]

Are you sure you listed all your expenses and that they are realistic?  You didn't list the cost of heating your condo and telephone expenses, for example.  And $340 a month for car loan, food, fuel, and condo fees seems low.  I don't know too many places you can vacation if you only budget $600 a year for 2 people.

Actually, believe it or not his number can be quite realistic. It's not a get-out-of-town lifestyle but can be done. $1500 monthly for two (?) is roughly $50 a day.

There are many places you can vacation for $600 (camping, a week at a cottage etc), as long as you don't pine for exotic places, first-class accomodation. Or the alternative is to go on an all-out vacation once every few years.

I think Jack definitely lives way below his means. I won't be comfortable retiring with liquid networth of $250K CDN at 37, working spouse or otherwise, but Jack is braver than I am.

Jane

 

[John Galt]

Hello Jane and all. Once more on "$50.00 per day"
to support 2 people. I probably have 100 ideas to
achieve this without even straining my grey matter.
Sure, it would be skinny and I am not doing it, nor would I, absent some calamity. However, I can assure you it is not all that difficult. I'll bet you that there are millions living right here in the USA on less and who are
quite content with their lives. It's like the elderly country
woman said "Hell, we didn't know we were poor until the government told us!"

John Galt

 

[azanon]

because at 37 I had already run
a couple of companies and was deep into the high
consumption lifestyle, well before I had my epiphany.

John, you've probably answered this before but let me in on this epiphany; was it an (expensive) item you bought that made it dawn on you the vanity of it, was it just the job you had that maybe you hated, something else?

Tony Robbins says decisions are made in an instant, so just curious what triggered your epiphany.

 

[John Galt]

Tony Robbins is basically right, but in my case it was not a job that I hated. I always worked very hard
(type A) and was quite successful by most standards.
Eventually I looked at my future and did not like what I
saw, i.e. continuing to "bust my pick" making money
when with a little brainpower I could opt out and just
do what I wanted, instead of chasing the buck every day. I just realized I was not getting any younger
and the work was taking a toll. I did not want to wind up old and sick without coming as close to complete
freedom as possible. I can't say it was an instant
moment, a flash of inspiration, but once the idea took hold, there was no stopping me. BTW, I never had a job in my life that I really hated, and I had some
pretty tough jobs. Nope, I just wanted the time to
do other things and I could not see any other way
but to quit working. I was right.

John Galt

 

[notTwain]

 

[notTwain]

Jack is William Berstein

 

[Jack K]

Are you sure you listed all your expenses and that they are realistic? You didn't list the cost of heating your condo and telephone expenses, for example. And $340 a month for car loan, food, fuel, and condo fees seems low. I don't know too many places you can vacation if you only budget $600 a year for 2 people.

Probably my english is at fault here. I meant that the $1500 include all expenses, such as my $340 loan on car, food (which costs me actually $240 a month), fuel (about $45 a month, I don't ride to work), condo fees ($135 a month). The heating is included in the condo fees. Telephone + Internet + cell phone are $75 in my monthly budget. I use the cell only for emergencies using a pre-paid card ($10 a month).

Regards,

Jack

 

[Jack K]

Ok, so now you are splitting your fixed expenses with your wife who also has income.  I don't think you mentioned that before.  Will she also be saving $250K and ERing with you, or will she continue to work?

I did not mentionned her because it does not matter that much. I pay for my expenses, she pays for hers. If we ever split, I will have a smaller condo and smaller expenses (it would surely cost me more than today, I agree, but on the other hand, I have a more frugal stylelife than she does, so that I would be able to cut some expenses further).

Anyway, I don't want to focus on figures, but on the way you can reduce expenses to increase savings. I will also try to show people that some assumptions from experts might be quite wrong for some people (for instance, the assumption that you will need 60-80% of the gross income you earned before retirement ).

How much wealth you need to retire, how you have to save and your budget depend on one personal situation that are mostly out of control in a retirement plan: where she lives, if she has children, her current income, etc. I could discuss about figures all day long, but this would make no sense because your own situation is much different from mine.

The basic fact is that most people that I know, with a similar personal situation than me (they live in the same city, same level of income, etc.) think they'll need to work until >60 before being able to retire. I think this is true because people believe they will need 80% of their actual income to retire.

I want to show (I'm not the first, many people actually did what I say I will try to do, my blog is not a secret or magic recipe, I'm just applying what others have done in the past; my blog is original only because I will be a "real-time" description of my progress) how we can retire MUCH earlier than that.

The lifestyle I could affor with my plan would not suit most people. But maybe I can convince some that they could easily retire by 50, for instance, and still have enough money to do what they intend to do when there are retired. As I said previously, if my figures are wrong as you seem to think they are, well, maybe I will retire a bit later, say at 39 or 42. Anyway, that would be much sooner that what I expected a few months ago (my previous "plan" was to try to retire by 55). But my goal is 37, and I am pretty confident I will succeed, even if things could happen and prevent me from doing it: me or wife loosing job, stock market crashing, etc.

Regards, Jack

 

[John Galt]

A word re. spouses, expense sharing and
early retirement, single vs. married. I was married in 1993 when I semiretired (PT work). I was single in 1998
when I quit completely. I remarried in 2001 and my wife works 32 hours a week. My net worth has increased
pretty steadily since 1993, except for the "split" when I divorced. Anyway, it (ER) worked as a single and it's still working as a couple. Obviously
a working spouse is a major help, especially now that
my net worth has kind of stabilized. Current plan is
for her to work 2 more years until I can draw SS, and
then see where we stand. BTW, even though we have a pretty solid prenup, we don't get too fancy with who pays for what, it just sort of developed by itself over time. I am kind of in the same situation as Cut-Throat
in that I produce income by the results of my nearly 40
years in the workplace, and my wife produces it by
continuing to work. Everyone is okay with that. It's
the other details that bedevil us.

John Galt

 

[sgeeeee]

Hi Jack,

First, congratulations on getting an early retirement plan in place. I wish you great success.

Your planned nest egg is a little bit light to support even your intended lifestyle if you compare it to historical worst case analysis. It sounds like you are using fixed average return and average inflation numbers as the basis of your plan and that could give you problems. But you have time to refine your plan if your returns don't match your expectations, and as you've mentioned, you can always work a few more years and still enjoy a long early retirement. You might want to run your plan through FIRECALC or another historical simulator and see for yourself how it would have fared historically.

Also, you sound as if you might think you have made a unique discovery about the relationship between "Living below your means" and building a retirement nest egg. Most of the posters on this board are very familiar with this concept and it actually is the subject of many of the threads here. In fact, the things you discuss are the central themes in a number of books that are often discussed on this board. If you aren't aware of this literature, you should check out some of the threads here and look at the reading lists. Some very good ideas have been published by a number of people who have retired very early. Their experience might be useful to you as you go on your own path.

Good luck.

 

[Zipper]

You need to get a life Jack! I hope your girlfriend heads for the hills because with your attitude she needs to find someone with balls. Trust me........she WILL want to have children someday. At 29 it is prudent to have a general retirement plan in place, but to make it the #1 priority in your life is ludicrous. Your figures to retire at 37 are naive. Unless you are expecting a big inheritance or you strike it rich with Lotto 649, you need to at least double, if not triple your stash. Forget any meaningful QPP benefits, and OAS would be 29 years away. You could be dumpster diving and living in a fridge box by the St. Lawrence. Maybe welfare or the Men's Mission would do in a pinch.

 

[Jarhead*]

You need to get a life Jack! I hope your girlfriend heads for the hills because with your attitude she needs to find someone with balls. Trust me........she WILL want to have children someday.

Zipper: Was going to respond to that young man, but at this point don't feel like piling on. (You covered it pretty good). With sisters, and two daughters, it is really comforting to know that there are lots of men with "broad shoulders" left in the world