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-   -   children (https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f26/children-20300.html)

claire 03-23-2006 02:09 PM

children
 
is there anyone else out there who doesnt have or want any? ::)

HFWR 03-23-2006 02:15 PM

Re: children
 
Have one (almost 25), but don't want any... :P

Maximillion 03-23-2006 02:18 PM

Re: children
 
More and more couples are making the decision not to have any, and many single women are going the artificial route to have a child.

Chacun a son gout. ???

Cool Dood 03-23-2006 02:28 PM

Re: children
 
la mort de l'Europe.... ;)

Martha 03-23-2006 02:32 PM

Re: children
 
None for spouse and I.

When we were younger and could have had children, we weren't well suited for it. Neither of us had much patience.

I already assigned our replacements to Laurence and Brewer. :)

Nords 03-23-2006 02:39 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by claire
is there anyone else out there who doesnt have or want any? ::)

"Ask about our affordable rentals-- we deliver and we pay you!"

cj 03-23-2006 02:48 PM

Re: children
 
I concur with Martha. DH & I were both too busy when we were at that age, and we really didn't have the desire to have them anyway. I like other people's children for short periods of time. Never regretted the decision not to have them. Everyone is different.

CJ

SC 03-23-2006 03:10 PM

Re: children
 
Same here. Not ready for parenthood when younger, and no desire for them now, although other people's kids can be a real joy in small doses.

And it's not like the population isn't exploding even without our contribution...

SC

Maximillion 03-23-2006 03:40 PM

Re: children
 
I have no idea what my life would have been without my two Sons , and although there are times, Fatherhood has been the most pleasant experiance of my life.

Chikdren are the only reason your ancestors existed.

I am one of 9 children, my Wife had 7 siblings.

Rustic23 03-23-2006 03:51 PM

Re: children
 
I know some will not ever be able to understand, however, for those who have chosen not to have or adopt children will miss one of the true joys of life…… grandchildren! For you see there were times when I would have gladly put my children in a box, especially the male, and left them there for 10 or 15 years, but never a time I don’t marvel at the antics of the grandchildren. It may be that being able to give them back make the difference. We have let out children know the ‘Only reason to have kids is to get grandkids!”

astromeria 03-23-2006 03:53 PM

Re: children
 
I don't especially like children--except my own* ::) Most of my friends don;t have kids (high tech women).

My firstborn is getting married shortly at age 30. Not interested in kids, but her intended is* :-\ Secondborn sez, "Grandchildren? Don't look at me!"* :laugh:
I was unable to have more kids after him, so I had none with hubster #2. But my ex had 3 more with the young wife* :P. I will get to enjoy the pleasure of their company <cough> at the wedding.

Sheryl 03-23-2006 04:04 PM

Re: children
 
I've never had an urge to have children. I did not want the stress in my life of trying to combine a carrer and a family and I was more interested in my career than in babies. No regrets.

My S.O.'s son just got married and has promised to make him a grand father within two years. That is close enough for me to grandchildren. I don't think we are going to be the doting types.

Sarah in SC 03-23-2006 04:20 PM

Re: children
 
Child-free! No kids. but lots of pets. Didn't want the stress and hassle, plus we really love the freedom. Always figured that if the idea just jumped all over us that we would, but it hasn't yet and the clock is winding down (I'm 35). More interested in retirement than child-rearing, but we like our niece and nephews in small doses. No patience and the screaming wears on us...nothing like the feeling of being able to walk out of the room while someone else is inches away from those powerful little lungs...but I'm so glad others (including my parents) didn't feel like we do!
Sarah

kat 03-23-2006 04:33 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustic23
I know some will not ever be able to understand, however, for those who have chosen not to have or adopt children will miss one of the true joys of life…… grandchildren! For you see there were times when I would have gladly put my children in a box, especially the male, and left them there for 10 or 15 years, but never a time I don’t marvel at the antics of the grandchildren. It may be that being able to give them back make the difference. We have let out children know the ‘Only reason to have kids is to get grandkids!”

I hear you. I see on their faces the immense joy my parents get from their grandchildren. I like witnessing it.

As for me, I thoroughly enjoy my nieces and nephews and the unique differences among them. Last year my sister's oldest, 9 years old, called me up and asked me if I could take her Christmas shopping..... I almost cried, it was so sweet. The next day her parents told me they had never seen HER so happy as she was from our trip..... Being an aunt suits me just fine.

kate

farmerEd 03-23-2006 04:44 PM

Re: children
 
I have 4...all under age 10, and its got to one of the most exhausting (and thankless) jobs in the world raising them...I wouldn't trade it though.

I do suspect that someday, after the last one leaves for college, and I re-retire (i.e. more in the classic sense) and my wife and I are free to travel and enjoy the peace and quite and solitude more usually associated with retired folks...that I would be willing to bet that none of you that have never had kids will ever be able to enjoy the peace and quite as much as I will* ;D

SteveR 03-23-2006 05:20 PM

Re: children
 
I did my duty to the family and created two males to carry on the family name. There are no other boys in either my mother or farther's side so my two are it. Neither are married yet (ages 21 and 27) but that could change in a year or two. I have 4 step-grandkids ages 6-13 so I became an instant grandfather 18 months ago. It has been a wierd experience with a bunch of kids I don't really know calling me "grandpa". I keep looking behind me expecting to see some old fart standing there. But, no, it is me. I am now the old fart. Our relationship is growing but I don't expect them to me to ever really feel the same kind of bond you get when you share flesh and blood.

I am glad I had kids and will be happier when they get out of school. They don't live at home so it is nice and quiet most of the time now and my time is mine (except when DW is there). :D

HobbyDave 03-23-2006 06:36 PM

Re: children
 
My wife and I are getting towards the deciding point as well, and we've gone back and forth a few times.

We're both 28 right now, but just starting into a good section of our careers (Both of us just moved from software engineers into management). So we're both making a pretty bundle, we moved into a nice new ouse (not above our means, but not really below either), and are doing well for ourselves. As has been stated in plenty of journals, 35 is around the last age you want to aim for children, as past that point you start to have increased number of birth defects, etc.

So we're trying to figure out what our priorities are, and what we'd like to do. Too bad life isn't like a video game.. "Ok, didn't enjoy that life too much without kids, lets reload and try our early 30's again without the condoms".

On one side of the ring, weighing in at 9 lbs 3 ounces, we have Children.

We do not want our children raised by relatives, babysitters, child care, etc (as we believe we'd be missing a large point of having children). So if we do have children, one of us would need to stay home for at least the first few years (at least until they're in school full time).

Now we also both feel pretty negatively about the public school system, so we're also leaning towards home schooling. That would basically knock out the next 18 years for one parent if we have kids.

Financially we would need to make multiple adjustments. Unless we get very large raises over the next few years (possible?), we can't afford our house / insurance / cars / etc on one salary. Currently one salary would cover costs, but leave no room for wiggle (I'm too paranoid to handle having no wiggle room in a budget). So we would likely need to move, probably sell one car (we have a new VW Bug.. pretty fun car, but not practical), and downgrade our lifestyle in general. Our savings rate would also be sharply cut for somewhat obvious reasons.

Now we're pretty sure we could afford kids (and afford the time) in around 15 years (after RE), but we would be busting right past the age we could actually have them. We've mentioned the idea of adoption when we get a bit older, but who knows. That's pretty far down the road :)

In the other corner, we have the titan of financial prosperity, the demon of free time, the master of golf... childless 2 income family!

Without children, we certainly have a lot of financial bonuses. Two incomes going up, two maxed 401k's, etc. As we go along, we're getting better at cutting our expenses, paying down debt, etc. Other than our house, our expenses have been going down over the last few years rather than up. So I figure we'll be sitting pretty within a few years as we pay down our cars (excessive purchases, which we've both somewhat regretted), put extra towards investing, etc.

As I've mentioned to my wife (since I run the numbers), if we don't have kids, retiring isn't an "if", it's just a when. We're looking at a possible 40ish retirement, more likely 45 if we don't rush things, certainly 50, and what the heck would we be doing working at age 55 when we could be on cruise ships all year long?

And the winner is?!

No idea. We "think" we would like kids. We both enjoy when they're around. We get a little google eyed when a kid makes a cute face in a restaurant at us. We also both walk away when a kid is screaming at a family party, so who knows? (I think usually we're frustrated with the parent, not the kid). Anyway, it's a very tough decision. It's made more difficult by the fact of the time constraints. As I mentioned, we'd be perfectly happy putting off kids until our mid 40's, but that's not really in the cards. We might miss not having kids, or we might regret them (both very sad situations). Who knows?

Sheryl 03-23-2006 07:21 PM

Re: children
 
I've always thought that if you don't have a very strong wish or desire to have kids, don't. You would probably be doing it for the wrong reasons.

I think there must be a gene that causes one to want to remain child free. I have three cousins on my mom's side, only one reproduced. Two cousins on my dad's side, neither reproduced. My brother had two kids. So only two out of the seven people in that generation had kids. And you can see that reproducing wasn't really gone wild in our parent's generation either as they are both from families of two kids. We are a dying breed, literally.

Outtahere 03-23-2006 07:23 PM

Re: children
 
I never wanted kids, have no maternal instincts at all unless it's a baby animal (pretty much anything but a monkey, too much like a human baby). *This unfortunately limited my choices in mates over the years as most of the men I dated talked about having kids, that was the kiss of death for them. *Finally found a man with grown children, worked for me and the fact that I didn't want any worked for him, a match made in heaven.

REWahoo 03-23-2006 07:29 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheryl
We are a dying breed, literally.

Wouldn't that be, "We are dying because we don't breed, literally."? :)


CyclingInvestor 03-23-2006 07:43 PM

Re: children
 
I always knew I did not want kids. As soon as I found a doctor
who would snip a young, unmarried guy, I had it done (at 27),
before I got married.

It is not that I hate children, I just do not particularly enjoy
their presence, and did not want the responsibility of raising
them. Dogs suit me much better. Most of my friends. male and
female, are also happily child-free (and own animals). Most are
programmers or engineers. The few that do have children seem
happy about it. I do not know anyone who regrets their decision
either way.

HobbyDave 03-23-2006 07:54 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheryl
I've always thought that if you don't have a very strong wish or desire to have kids, don't. You would probably be doing it for the wrong reasons.

I think that's similar to the argument that some people say that if you're not "certain" you should get married to someone, then they are not the right person for you. While romantic, I think it's a very incorrect assumption (for multiple reasons, which I won't get into here because it's a RE board, not a marriage board :)

Anyway, I think that often things are not black & white in life. I personally like kids. If I had 10 million in my bank account right now, I believe I'd quit my job and throw away the condoms (at least for a couple years ;) However, I believe that money / time does factor into all decisions, even having kids.

Sometimes having children seems like a religion to people. They freak out if you suggest that you are trying to consider the financial aspects of having kids before doing the deed. They think it's blasphemous to run a budget to see if you can afford them without selling the house. They think that pondering the decision for awhile is at the same level as saying "Well, my wife has more money, but my mistress is better in bed".

I personally think people should think longer before becoming parents. It's not as if we're lacking in children at the moment, there are lots to go around. I've seen time and time again a young couple gets married, and wham, babies start popping out.. and then they suddenly realize that they aren't a good couple and split. Or how a couple that just got married, and said "we're going to start having kids in a few months, and one of us will stay home to take care of the kids".. I asked how they were going to afford their house (they just bought a new one), when I knew their combined salary was barely enough.. they seriously were surprised at the idea... "we'll figure it out when the time comes" was the answer.

Anyway, I suppose I'm rambling a bit. I think it's always a good idea to think about something. I thought before getting engaged, I thought before getting married, I thought before buying our latest house (maybe not enough), and now I'm thinking before having kids. Even if I do end up wanting them, I think the thoughts are important.

dusk_to_dawn 03-23-2006 07:57 PM

Re: children
 
I have one son. Raising a child is the hardest thing I have ever done. Thank god DW is there to help do most of it. I have no idea how single moms do it. Had we not had a child, we would probably be retired now. I wouldn't change a thing though. The world needs good people and I am doing my best to put one more out there.

So............ for those that don't have kids, who are your beneficiaries? Assuming you don't spend it all, who/what is going to get your stash?


Sheryl 03-23-2006 08:04 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo!
Wouldn't that be, "We are dying because we don't breed, literally."?* :)


Both, I think. ???

HobbyDave 03-23-2006 08:43 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dusk_to_dawn

So............ for those that don't have kids, who are your beneficiaries? Assuming you don't spend it all, who/what is going to get your stash?

Heck if I care, you want it? :)

AltaRed 03-23-2006 09:04 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dusk_to_dawn

So............ for those that don't have kids, who are your beneficiaries?* Assuming you don't spend it all, who/what is going to get your stash?


Why leave any stash to anyone? DW and I have 2 adult sons and they are getting by on their own. Could be doing better if they put some muscle behind their effort. It's their choice how they want to live their lives. I intend to have a good time spending my stash in retirement.... starting about 36 days from now.

Oh yeah, since this was about having kids.. I would repeat the experience of having kids. It was mostly fun. No grandkids in sight though and not sure it matters either way.

mb 03-23-2006 09:35 PM

Re: children
 
Sheryl,

I agree with this,

Quote:

I think there must be a gene that causes one to want to remain child free.
But I have a stupid theory that for many men it is dormant and has to be turned on somehow. At least that was the way it was for me.

I would have been very happy to not have kids. But them something kicked in around the birth of my first one that made me realize that it was the best thing that every happened to me.

MB

Cool Dood 03-23-2006 09:35 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CyclingInvestor
I always knew I did not want kids. As soon as I found a doctor
who would snip a young, unmarried guy, I had it done (at 27),
before I got married.

If you do enough cycling, this should take care of itself....

lazyday 03-24-2006 02:38 AM

Re: children
 
https://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/c...6&print=1.html
Quote:

....The greatly expanded childless segment of contemporary society, whose members are drawn disproportionately from the feminist and countercultural movements of the 1960s and 70s, will leave no genetic legacy. Nor will their emotional or psychological influence on the next generation compare with that of their parents.
Quote:

....These circumstances are leading to the emergence of a new society whose members will disproportionately be descended from parents who rejected the social tendencies that once made childlessness and small families the norm. These values include an adherence to traditional, patriarchal religion, and a strong identification with one’s own folk or nation.

This dynamic helps explain, for example, the gradual drift of American culture away from secular individualism and toward religious fundamentalism. Among states that voted for President George W. Bush in 2004, fertility rates are 12 percent higher than in states that voted for Sen. John Kerry. It may also help to explain the increasing popular resistance among rank-and-file Europeans to such crown jewels of secular liberalism as the European Union. It turns out that Europeans who are most likely to identify themselves as “world citizens” are also those least likely to have children.

On a lighter note (for liberals, anyway):
https://www.nokidding.net/
Quote:

The international social club for childfree and childless couples and singles.

Danny 03-24-2006 04:11 AM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool Dood
If you do enough cycling, this should take care of itself....

:laugh:
I wear cushioned bike shorts and tilt the seat so the prong is down when biking.
No more kids planned, but I like to know I still got what it takes.

Outtahere 03-24-2006 06:34 AM

Re: children
 
Who will get my stash when I'm gone? If there's any left 1/3 will go to dh's kids, 1/3 will go to my two nephews (yes someone in the family did have kids) and the other 1/3 will go to an animal charity.

I always knew I wasn't cut out for having kids, plain and simple. I have many reasons which I won't go into but I know it was the right decision for me.

I will tell you there was a time I thought I should have them, someone to take care of me in my old age. I had a long talk with my stepdad about that and his answer to me was. "Go to a nursing home and see how many people are there who's kids never visit". Clinched it for me.

Maximillion 03-24-2006 07:24 AM

Re: children
 
The people who should have kids , don't, those that shouldn't, Do???

You end up paying for kids anyway, they are just other people's.

Many families are dependant upon Child Welfare Payments, te children become the de facto employer.

dusk_to_dawn 03-24-2006 08:21 AM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AltaRed
Why leave any stash to anyone?

Because you can't take it with you. The question was who/what will get your stash when you are gone. If not a person, perhaps an organization. It seems highly unlikely that any of us will die with a zero balance. Many on this board will probably have substantial assets at the time of death.

Danny 03-24-2006 08:30 AM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dusk_to_dawn
Because you can't take it with you. The question was who/what will get your stash when you are gone. If not a person, perhaps an organization. It seems highly unlikely that any of us will die with a zero balance. Many on this board will probably have substantial assets at the time of death.

We have children, but in our wills in case our children don't survive us - we have designated Minnesota Public Radio and American Friends Service Committee to get the stash.

SC 03-24-2006 08:45 AM

Re: children
 
Our stash goes to our surviving parents, if any, a sister (who has children), and a few of our favorite charities. If we outlive all our parents, and as long as sis' remains financially secure, we'll leave her all the sentimental stuff and probably 1/4 of the moolah -- to compensate her for the trouble of weeding through all our junk heirlooms looking for the good stuff ;D, with the rest going to charity.

I like knowing that after we check out, a big chunk of what we own is going to be used for something good.

SC

kat 03-24-2006 08:46 AM

Re: children
 
Beneficiaries? Siblings, and organizations that work with refugees.

Here in NY leaving it to nieces and nephews likely sentences their family to a lifetime of dealing with the Court if they are minors. People hate it.

Rustic23 03-24-2006 08:48 AM

Re: children
 
Ceberon
Our Son and DIL have decided not to have kids, and while DW and I think that is a mistake, because they both love kids, for what ever reason it is their choice and there life, and it is OK with us.

For those trying to decide if they should have kids the one thing that seems to come through here is that those of us that do, even those who thought they didn’t want kids, would not trade them for anything. I personally can not think of anything worse than turning 60 or older with a huge stash of cash and regretting that decision. There is an old decision matrix that says there are only 4 outcomes to all decisions for children it would go like this:

I don’t have kids and I didn’t think I wanted kids – good
I have kids and I wanted kids – good
I have kids and I thought I didn’t want kids – good in most cases
I don’t have kids and I should have had kids – bad

Yes you can turn these around, but most of our friends 60+ years old or older that thought they wanted kids and waited too long have regrets, those that didn’t want kids and didn’t have them are just fine. Frost poem about two roads comes to mind. There are times in life you make a decision and you can’t go back. For us it was to have kids. We retire May 5th, at 62, could have retired at 55 but didn’t think about it. No excuse!

Sheryl 03-24-2006 09:20 AM

Re: children
 
I have absolutely no doubt that if I'd had children I would love them fiercely and probably be one of the people saying they are the best thing that ever happened to me. But that doesn't change the fact that I'm happy with my decision.
I've been very close for more than ten years with a group of childfree women who originally met on an AOL message board, so we've had all sorts of discussions on this topic.
One of the biggest challenges for me is this: Many people who are parents can comfortably say their greatest achievement is/was raising their children. They can say without a doubt, the most important thing in their lives is their families. And that's a good thing. But for a childfree person, (at least this one) it's important to have some other achievement or focus, in order to feel that I have contributed something positive to the world, or that I have some meaning and existence.

[existentialism before breakfast - not good!]

As to who gets the stash - Right now SO's son gets his, my brother and several charities get mine. As the son and impending grandchildren grow up, and my nephews mature that may change. If it seems they would benefit from it, they'll get more, if they are bums who would blow it all on dope, I'll leave it all to charity.


kaudrey 03-24-2006 09:55 AM

Re: children
 
I'm 37. Don't have kids (good, since they would have had to go through their parents' divorce). Don't think I want kids at this late stage in my life. Current BF doesn't want kids either, which helps. I like kids, just don't have that maternal instinct.

I have 2 cats and BF and I want to get a dog.

My sister and her husband, for 10 years, said they didn't want to have kids. About a year ago, they changed their minds and are trying to have one. You just never know! I'd LOVE to be an aunt.

Both of my aunts don't have any kids (one couldn't, one didn't want to). I am very close to the aunt who never wanted kids, she is like a second mother to me.

As for the "who do you leave your money to" question: my aunt's estate will go in a trust to provide income for her second husband if he is still alive, and then the assets go to my sister and I. And since I am not currently married, my will gives money and stuff to: my sister (if I have a niece/nephew, I'll change that), several charities, and a small amount to one of my best friends' kid.

Karen

SyntheticDivision 03-24-2006 10:07 AM

Re: children
 
I have a 5 month old and what a blessing. I couldn't begin to imagine my life w/out kids. We plan on having 2-3 more.

J-Lu 03-24-2006 10:08 AM

Re: children
 
So it sounds like everybody has no regrets about their decision to have or not have kids. *Is there anyone here who does have regrets one way or the other (just curious)? * I became a mother for the first time last year at 35 and just found out that #2 is on the way. *I always wanted to have children but didn't get married until 34. *Although I always liked children, I found that other children do not come close to the love that you feel for your own. *As soon as my son was born, I knew that I would die for him in a second. *It's like nothing I've ever experienced. *I'm sure I will have momentary thoughts of regret as I will soon have two under 18 months *:) *But hopefully those thoughts will be the exception and not the norm. *

Danny 03-24-2006 10:18 AM

Re: children
 
If someone did regret not having children, there are plenty of kids out there who need either foster care or adoption. And if there are those who regret having children there is foster care or adoption.

My cousin (65) just informed me that she got a call last year from a sister she had no idea she had.

grumpy 03-24-2006 10:23 AM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceberon
So we're both making a pretty bundle, we moved into a nice new ouse (not above our means, but not really below either), and are doing well for ourselves.

... we can't afford our house / insurance / cars / etc on one salary.

Something doesn't add up here. If you were even contemplating having kids, then the new house IS above your means. Seems to me if you were really trying to keep your options open (to have kids or not), you would have arranged your financial life to be within your means in either case. My wife and I were married for 5 years before we made that decision. She then stayed home for 9 years while the kids were small. We had bought a smaller house in a less expensive area than many of our friends. We still managed to retire at age 57.

No grandkids yet. Our son is 31 and just broke up with his girlfriend after 2.5 years. No near term prospects there. Our daughter (28) works in the theater ("forget it dad, all the unmarried men I meet are gay!"). Raising kids was both the most difficult and the most rewarding thing we have ever done. I have to bite my tongue to keep from reminding my son that he is the only male on my father's side of the family who can carry on the family name.

When I think back over the unbroken chain of couples that struggled to survive and reproduce across the ages to put me on this earth I can't help feel it would have been a betrayal of them not to have kids. While I didn't do it for that reason, I know I would feel guilty if I had made the other choice. Just my opinion.

Grumpy

Rustic23 03-24-2006 10:40 AM

Re: children
 
Just a side note my MIL, who raised 5, says that raising kids is the easiest task in the world. Proof of that: 100% of those are armatures when they start and 95% of the product come out just fine, no other process has such a success rate, so, therefore, it must be easy. (I think her tongue was in her cheek)

Maximillion 03-24-2006 11:22 AM

Re: children
 
Any one who says that at certain times of raising Children they did not regret their decision must be a Saint.

I could not imagine life without my sons, but there were times when He went through the Purple Hair, Tatoos, Earing Stage that they tried my patience(Youngest totall opposite, no marks or holes of any kind)

They did No Drugs, Mimimal alcohol(one, youngest total abstainer) and had more Girl Friends than I thought he deserved(youngest , total opposite, a few long term relationships).

Oldest, took off for China and has stayed for 8 years, youngest I needed dynamite to get him out of our basement.

Nords 03-24-2006 12:04 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Lu
So it sounds like everybody has no regrets about their decision to have or not have kids. *Is there anyone here who does have regrets one way or the other (just curious)?

"My parents moved a lot when I was a kid, but I always found them." *-- Rodney Dangerfield.

Spouse and I watched one couple try to conceive during a Western Pacific deployment. *We'd be pulling into port and she'd be waving from the pier (the spouses refer to this meet-'em-in-every-port behavior as "sea gulling"). *The topside crew would be nudging him and saying things like "Hey, Rick, dude, who's the major babe? *Ouch, geez, sorry man, izzat your wife?!!", "Rick, do you have to cancel any other plans? *Want me to call your girlfriend?" and "Want me to take your duty, man? *Or do you want to take mine?" *Even the CO got into the act by making sure that he was the first man off the ship. *Rick would just groan or whimper a little and next morning come crawling back across the brow. *It was pretty hard for those two to keep their conception challenges private, but today they have three bouncing boys and no regrets.

Spouse was watching this behavior with some amusement (I was just hoping to get one of my best guy's mind back on his job) but evidently it started a train of thought. *A few months later, as we approached a couple years' shore duty in the sixth year of marriage (in our low 30s) I called her from Seattle (another "short" deployment) and she said "So, wanna start a family on shore duty? *Think about it on your way back to Hawaii-- no pressure!" *Yeah, right. *I knew better than to discuss my thoughts with any of my shipmates.

We had read that childless couples were "missing out", "too selfish", and ostracized by family/friends. *We couldn't imagine the pain of trying to conceive in vitro later in life after passing up what seemed to be a valuable opportunity. *OTOH both of us had dealt with a problem sibling while growing up and we weren't sure that more than one kid was such a smart idea. *No way did we want an "Eight is Enough" experience, either. *Other than those concerns, there wasn't much productive thought or discussion because we could imagine our lives either way and felt we should just give things a try. *We decided that raising kids was probably better than not having kids, and shore duty was probably a better time to try than during sea duty. *

After watching Rick's public travails we decided to take it easy and not sweat any deadlines. *Spouse went off birth control to make a gradual transition to fertility. *I was still six months away from shore duty when we rented a vacation cottage at Bellows Beach after the holidays, lost power for a couple days during a thunderstorm, the water was too cold for swimming, and we had no other sources of entertainment... bam. *So to speak.

We knew the day we left the delivery room that our family was the right size. *I've posted before about how tough some kid's personalities can be and how the military is not easily made family-friendly. *For a while, especially between six months and three years, I felt tricked by my genes. *(Our daughter, the spitting image of my deceased contentious mother, has everything in my DNA but my Y chromosome. *Freud would get a lifetime of research out of this one.) *We traded a lot of comments like "Hey, you already made your first mistake by marrying me, what warning signs weren't strong enough to keep you from procreating?!?", "$#@%ing sailors", and "There's no doubt this is your kid!"

Today I still feel a little hoodwinked by my male biological imperatives, but somehow kids worm their way into your affections and won't let you go. *Spouse and I agree that this project has been worth the effort and that we are better human beings for having been parents, as long as we don't give in to the occasional temptation to kill her before she reaches adulthood. *I enjoy teaching, and this seems to be the ultimate teacher's challenge. *Our kid has taught me more strategy, tactics, patience, leadership, psychology, humility, and endurance than from anything I've ever done in the Navy. *(I'm also a trained police interrogator & human polygraph.) *I've learned more about human beings-- especially women-- than I ever thought I would need (or want) to know. *Our kid does share interests with me that spouse doesn't, which is nice. *And at least I have someone who hasn't heard all my sea stories yet. *But I'm pretty sure that God (or my mother) isn't finished punishing me for the things I did as a teenager. *Parenting is truly a life sentence without parole.* And any parent who claims "Oh, my kid always..." or "My darling child would never..." has a lot to learn.

Both of our siblings appear to be in lifetime relationships, but AFAIK neither has kids. *I don't know if that makes them sad or, after spending time with our kid, feeling like they've received the governor's pardon. *We think they're missing out a little but we don't know if they've even tried to have kids or not. *We don't think that being childless has ruined their lives. *It's certainly improved their vacations & recreations!

So emotionally I'm 100% for having kids. *Intellectually the decision is about 75-25 in favor. *Financially, a kid is a big loser. *However if intellectual or financial considerations are an issue then you probably shouldn't be having kids in the first place.

It's just like ER. *If you're considering parenthood, then I recommend offering to watch a friend's or relative's kids for a couple weeks. *They'll be extremely grateful (although initially suspicious-- "Have you lost your ever-loving minds?!?") and you'll certainly learn how you can handle the subject. *But don't worry-- somehow kids survive all our attempts to raise them.

Outtahere 03-24-2006 06:08 PM

Re: children
 
When ever I would get the urge I had two small boys I could borrow from a friend, that cured me.

Maximillion 03-24-2006 06:21 PM

Re: children
 
Not the same thing at all.

Outtahere 03-24-2006 07:14 PM

Re: children
 
It might not be the same thing but I knew I didn't want to deal with that, they are great kids and have grown up to be wondeful men and I love them dearly but as kids they were..well... normal little boys. I just don't tolerate childern well , never have, never will. I think it's wonderful that others want to have kids it just isn't/wasn't for me.

Maximillion 03-24-2006 08:34 PM

Re: children
 
I remember as a Bachelor a buddy visited with his kid, the little boy, about 5, ran and ran and ran, my Girl Friend at the time said, she could not handle the energy.

The little boy, Kris Draper with the Red Wings, still high energy.

Sheryl 03-25-2006 11:57 AM

Re: children
 
My mother frequently told me as I was growing up that she wished she'd never had kids, and that she felt like she missed out on the chance to have a "real" life. Yet I never doubted that she loved me and would give up her life for me, and even worse, that I was the center of her universe.

She felt that women in the '50's were all expected to be mothers and have children. I was happy that I did not have that burden placed on me.

I just didn't (don't) want to be a mother. Yes, its a wonderful glorious thing, and you'll always be happy you have your child, etc. I'm just glad I don't and not interested in that role.

It's really a case of different strokes for different folks, and respecting each individual's choices. Just like that other thread.

Maximillion 03-25-2006 12:21 PM

Re: children
 
Sheryl, exactly, no one needs defend their decisions, although as a Child I can frequently remember people asking my parents why they had 10 Children.(We were Catholic Irish).

cute fuzzy bunny 03-25-2006 07:30 PM

Re: children
 
I plan to teach my son The benefits of Random capitalization.

He's been a joy To both of us, so its the Least I can do to give a little Something back to him.

haha 03-25-2006 08:20 PM

Re: children
 
When I was young and struggling financially I thought like some of you, "Hey, I can't afford to have kids." Then I met a guy that I would go spearfishing with who was an outboard mechanic for a rental outfit in this village where we lived. He had 12 kids, by 3 women.

I decided if this moron can have 12 kids, I can have as many as I damn well please.

I wound up with 2, but would have preferred 2 more. My wife said no, it hurts too damn much where you don't like to be hurt.

An observation- any man without kids is a cuckold- in that in the US anyway, you are paying in various ways for other men’s kids. Of course you pay less than you would having your own, but then you are also out of the gene pool.

Ha

brewer12345 03-25-2006 08:44 PM

Re: children
 
Wow, I would never begrudge any of you your choice in this matter, but I have to say that I am surprised how negatively/neutral most of the posters on this thread view having kids. My daughter is an absolute joy to DW and I. I can't imagine life without her. Coming home and seeing her is the highlight of my day. Yeah, I could retire sooner if we didn;t have kids, but what would the point be?

Different strokes, but I can't imagine having things any other way.

Toejam 03-25-2006 11:01 PM

Re: children
 
Here's an interesting article about children from both perspectives:

https://www.moneycentral.com/content/...ds/P144966.asp

Some studies cited in the article indicate that people with children are no more or less happy than people without children, but that parents seem to have a higher rate of depression than those without kids.* As can be expected, Ms. Dunleavy was criticized by some parents for even considering children financial "investments".

*

gia6898 03-26-2006 08:49 PM

Re: children
 
I don't know why, but I continue to be surprised when people talk about how everyone who has kids loves them.* It is such a prevalent misconception, but it makes no sense to me.* I wonder how many foster children these people have encountered.* I'm not just talking about children born to crackheads, I'm talking about children being abused in a range of families.* Those in foster homes are the most severe cases.* However, there are children all over the country being abused and neglected by parents who don't give a crap about them.

I've read several books about women making this decision, pick up any one of them and you will see examples of women who regret becoming mothers.* I especially recommend Beyond Motherhood: Choosing a Life Without Children.* I think it would benefit men as well as women who are questioning their desire to have children.* When Ann Landers did her survery in 1975 asking couples whether or not they would have children again if they could do it over again, 70% said NO.* People question the scientific validity of this survey.* That's fine.* However, no one can dispute the fact that 7000 people took the time to write in and say they regretted it.* Dr. Phil did a show last year where three women came on and talked about how they pretty much couldn't stand their kids.

I actually made a list of the pros and cons of having children.* Sounds crazy, I know, it was suggested in the book I recommended.* My list of cons was about 5 times as long as the pros.* I view having a child as being equivalent to living and caring for a complete stranger for 18 years.* You get to know them a bit along the way.* But you essentially have to accept and love, without expectations some person who will have a personality you have no way of predicting.* I am very picky about the people I choose to spend my time with.* Also, I can barely stand to live with another adult, I definitely don't want to be with a growing child 24x7.* * * * * *
* * * *

Calgary_Girl 03-26-2006 08:56 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gia
Dr. Phil did a show last year where three women came on and talked about how they pretty much couldn't stand their kids.*
* * * *

On the flip side, Oprah had a show a couple of years ago where women in executive positions regretted putting their careers first since by the time they wanted children, it was too late. My point is that there's another side to every story. I'm sure that for every woman who's regretted having children, there's another woman out there who wishes she could have children or hadn't waited so long.

gia6898 03-26-2006 09:03 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgary_Girl
On the flip side, Oprah had a show a couple of years ago where women in executive positions regretted putting their careers first since by the time they wanted children, it was too late.* My point is that there's another side to every story.* I'm sure that for every woman who's regretted having children, there's another woman out there who wishes she could have children or hadn't waited so long.

The difference is these women will always have the option to adopt. However, women who have kids, can't just send the kid back to the factory. It's a life sentence. I would much rather regret not have kids, than regret having them. That's just me.

Nords 03-26-2006 10:11 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gia
But you essentially have to accept and love, without expectations some person who will have a personality you have no way of predicting.

Oh, the parent's personalities go a long way toward predicting the kid's personality.

But somehow we end up loving them anyway. I suspect it's hormones & brain chemistry at first, because it's sure not intelligence or logic...

AV8 03-26-2006 10:23 PM

Re: children
 
There is a lot of passion in this "Hi, I am..." thread. *;) *I don't think anyone is going to convince anyone else that they have made the wrong choice. *Nor do I think anyone is trying to do so. *I'm not out to change anyones minds either, but I'll add my positive thought to raising children...

My house is total chaos all of the time. *With a 5, 3 and 1 year old we are constantly moving. *Trying to get the 3-year old to wear something other than shorts and tee-shirt when it's 50 degrees outside and blowing 15 knots ("I won't get cold!"). *Making sure the youngest doesn't fall down on the tile and hurt himself (he's been walking for a week). *Trying for the millionth time to teach sharing. *Handling the inevitable colds and flu bugs that come with that petri dish they call school. *Trying to tell my 3-yr old to stop trying to fly from the couch to the chair while wearing the cape on his shoulders and wielding the toy sword. *Helping my daughter play dress-up and set up her tea set (who'd of thought I'd be doing that!). *

Then there was 2AM this morning when the oldest woke me up to remind me that I didn't give her the Cambells soup I promised her for lunch..."you ate at your friends house"..."Oh, right"..."Go to bed"..."Okay"...

But its a funny thing. *On the occasion when I come home to an empty house it is so uncomfortably quiet. *I so much prefer the yells of "DADDY!!!" as I approach the door and enter the chaotic realm. *I watch the oldest read and I'm uterly amazed at how well she does for a 5 year old. *I watched the youngest walk for the first time last week. *And the three year old...well, as he's flying through the air to land on the couch (again) and I start punishing him for doing it I'm saying to myself "wow, he can really jump!" * I obviously wouldn't trade them for anything. *And as Maximillion said "Renting" your friends/relatives kids for a week is definitely not the same thing. *

Financially they are expensive, but I'm not altogether convinced that it is "my life costs this much, but if I had kids...Wow would that be expensive!" *I'd just have more (costly) hobbies and things to keep me entertained. *So would DW. *I know we'd travel more, etc. *We still plan to RE. *Maybe a few years later than a couple in our shoes that didn't have kids, but that's the type of choice that everyone makes along the way.

Kids to me are not about "the experience" as if they are something to check off a list of things to do. *They are about life and living and are absolutely fantastic (to DW and I at least). *If somebody makes the decision to forego having children then that is their choice, but I'd never go back.

Oh, and if you are being told that 35 is supposed to be a magical cut off point for not having children don't tell my wife. *She'd go ballistic.

AV8

LRS 03-26-2006 11:02 PM

Re: children
 
I hear you about the chaos. There are days when I think I'm either going deaf or cracking up or both. Then there are the days when both kids are out of the house (more frequently now that they are ages 12 and 17), and I think how much I'll hate it when the they are grown and gone. They have become such terrific people--not strangers, by the way, but individuals.

People who are wise enough to know they do not have the temperament for child-rearing should exercise their right to remain child-free. A no-brainer, in my opinion.

But about that Ann Landers survey from the "70s ... I remember my dad, of all people reading it, and saying "I love my kids and I don't regret a single moment I spent with them." This after yelling at me and my sibs for the duration of my childhood. Who knew?

Maximillion 03-27-2006 07:43 AM

Re: children
 
My Youngest Son was about 7, I opened up my Attache Case on the plane, there in Dymo tape he had printed "Have a safe flight Daddy".

That tape is still there.

Outtahere 03-27-2006 07:57 AM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawny Dangle


People who are wise enough to know they do not have the temperament for child-rearing should exercise their right to remain child-free. A no-brainer, in my opinion.

That's exactly the way it should be. I knew from the time I was a kid that I didn't want children, I don't know why, it was something I just knew. I definately don't have the temperment or desire.

Sheryl 03-27-2006 09:01 AM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Outtahere
That's exactly the way it should be.* I knew from the time I was a kid that I didn't want children, I don't know why, it was something I just knew.* I definately don't have the temperment or desire.


Same here. It's all about the "road not taken" discussion. Make a decsion, embrace it, and move on. You can second guess forever but it's a pointless endeavor.

Once you've got a kid or kids, you've got 'em, you're a Mommy - so love them like crazy and be the best mommy you can be.

Gia brought up all the abused and abandoned kids our there - with parents that obviously shouldn't have been parents. The real problem in that situation is that those "parents" were to stupid, uninformed or psychopathic to even consider childbearing a conscious decision, much less to make a different decision.

JMHO.

yakers 03-27-2006 09:02 AM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawny Dangle
I hear you about the chaos. There are days when I think I'm either going deaf or cracking up or both.

Younger son is a Mohawk haired rock drummer. Maybe some hearing loss by other than aging on my part and a few dead grey cells but I wouldn't have *it any other way.

Jarhead* 03-27-2006 10:12 AM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawny Dangle


But about that Ann Landers survey from the "70s ... I remember my dad, of all people reading it, and saying "I love my kids and I don't regret a single moment I spent with them." This after yelling at me and my sibs for the duration of my childhood. Who knew?

I don't either, but not sure that (at least in my case) it would be representative of the current climate re: raising children.

My wife was a stay at home mother. My job (in the mid sixties) was to "bring home the bacon".

My wife had the "easy" job. (Eye roll).

I don't think I changed their diapers, (maybe 3 times, when I couldn't locate Mrs. Jarhead). ;)

I was always their "hero", that showed up to take them fishing, and generally to get them away from "mean mom".

Have no idea what raising children are with both husband and wife with outside jobs, but I'm sure the husband is more involved in "process" than I was. 8)



Jay_Gatsby 03-27-2006 01:08 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by grumpy
No grandkids yet.* Our son is 31 and just broke up with his girlfriend after 2.5 years.* No near term prospects there.* Our daughter (28) works in the theater ("forget it dad, all the unmarried men I meet are gay!").* Raising kids was* both the most difficult and the most rewarding thing we have ever done.* I have to bite my tongue to keep from reminding my son that he is the only male on my father's side of the family who can carry on the family name.*

Grumpy,

Don't worry too much about your son. One would think a 31-year old might have his head on straight at that age, but it's been my personal experience that is typically NOT the case. It's comfortable to be in a relationship, but when you are forced to think about the next step (marriage), you often question very seriously whether the person you're currently dating is someone with whom you WANT to spend the rest of your life. Fortunately, a breakup at that point is often followed by a relationship within six months to a year that often blossoms into marriage. Put differently, the early-30s breakup is often a watershed moment -- deciding on what you DON'T want, and the almost immediate development of a laser-like focus on finding what you DO want.

As for your daughter, I'd be concerned once she passes 30 years old, since it's been my experience that such age is often a panic point.

laurence 03-27-2006 02:54 PM

Re: children
 
Some of you know the challenges I've faced with my daughter, 18 months old now. Down Syndrome, heart defect, 911 calls, etc. Just this morning the eye doctor told me she may need surgery to correct wandering eyes/ weak eye muscles, but that we were going to work to avoid it. It's been tough. Despite all that, I wouldn't trade her for the world. I've experienced the greatest joy in this past 1.5 years. She is the love of my life. I always knew I wanted kids though, so I don't know what to say to those of you who are on the fence. :-\

Maximillion 03-27-2006 03:51 PM

Re: children
 
jarhead, my edxperiance is almost identical to yours, the only differance is that my wife returned to work after 8 years and for a few years we had a German Hause Frau to watch the kids until one of us got back.

The Canadian Government recognises the contributions of stay at home Mothers and allows them to claim up to 8 years of Social Security for the time they stayed home.

Laurence, our community is active in Special Olympics, amazing what those kids can do and the sports manship they exhibit.

A recent movie was made about a non challenged individual pretending to be so he could compete in the SO, I thought it was the worst example of bad taste.

eridanus 03-27-2006 05:53 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximillion
A recent movie was made about a non challenged individual pretending to be so he could compete in the SO, I thought it was the worst example of bad taste.

The Special Olympics didn't think so. They assisted in the movie's creation.

Cool Dood 03-27-2006 06:24 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eridanus
The Special Olympics didn't think so. They assisted in the movie's creation.

Ah, but I'm sure Maximillion knows better than they do..... ;)

Maximillion 03-27-2006 06:24 PM

Re: children
 
Why? ???

cute fuzzy bunny 03-27-2006 06:33 PM

Re: children
 
Because you're a jerk.

laurence 03-27-2006 06:34 PM

Re: children
 
I heard a brief blurb on this movie, they sent around literature to all the Down Syndrome support groups (including mine) talking about how they consulted on it, not disrespecting, blah blah. *We all just shrugged our shoulders. *The bad old days of DS kids and adults being shunned and made fun of seem to be behind us, all the parents we talk to say their kids are doing quite well, mainstreamed in regular schools, they have friends both with and w/o DS, and as they become adults, they get jobs, move out, heck, lots of parents could only hope for so much! *

This is not to in any way gloss over the challenges and difficulties, but things are better than they were. *We can't get out of the store or resturant without a small crowd, everyone saying things like, "my sister/cousin/uncle/neighbor has DS and he/she is the most wonderful person!" and share a personal story. *

Maximillion 03-27-2006 09:15 PM

Re: children
 
CFB, does your wife give you an allowance or does she just let you use her Credit Card???

cute fuzzy bunny 03-27-2006 09:20 PM

Re: children
 
:laugh:

Saw one of your kids today. Gave him a buck to buy a new cardboard sign. Took it out of my allowance.

HFWR 03-28-2006 07:47 AM

Re: children
 
Children...

Appropriate thread name... :-\

brewer12345 03-28-2006 07:53 AM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurence
This is not to in any way gloss over the challenges and difficulties, but things are better than they were. *We can't get out of the store or resturant without a small crowd, everyone saying things like, "my sister/cousin/uncle/neighbor has DS and he/she is the most wonderful person!" and share a personal story. *

Laurence, do you guys appreciate this sort of thing as support/friendliness, or do you feel like people are pointing you out, albeit politely? I try really hard not to make a big deal out of or even acknowledge anyone's developmental/physical/mental disabilities, since I think I would want to be treated just like everyone else if I were in their shoes.

Maximillion 03-28-2006 10:17 AM

Re: children
 
CFB, I would do the same for your Children, if you ever had any??? ;D

laurence 03-28-2006 11:16 AM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345
Laurence, do you guys appreciate this sort of thing as support/friendliness, or do you feel like people are pointing you out, albeit politely?* I try really hard not to make a big deal out of or even acknowledge anyone's developmental/physical/mental disabilities, since I think I would want to be treated just like everyone else if I were in their shoes.

It almost always comes across well. Honestly, ignoring the elephant in the room (which some people do) only makes it awkward. I can't speak for other disabilities, but with DS it comes across as more of a celebration, not a "look at the freak!" session. Awknowledging (sic) the difference does not mean labeling some one as not equal. The only time we get upset is when people say things like, "I would have had an abortion.". :P

So to sum up, when some one engages us it always dissapates any tension that might be in the room, which isn't often. Even if they engage awkwardly, the sincerity shines through. So far, people are batting 1.000 in that regard. :)

brewer12345 03-28-2006 11:44 AM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurence
The only time we get upset is when people say things like, "I would have had an abortion.".* *:P

I hear you on that one. I really still cannot fathom why the medical profession seems almost eager to put forth the idea of abortion when DS is detected in an unborn kid. They are still your kid...

cute fuzzy bunny 03-28-2006 12:51 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximillion
CFB, I would do the same for your Children, if you ever had any??? ;D

Are you usually drunk When you post or is this, Just a special time in your life?

Maximillion 03-28-2006 01:12 PM

Re: children
 
CFB, on the question of Drunkeness, I defer to you ,the expert.

Alcohol in Canada is almost twice the cost of the same product in the US, so drunkeness is not really an issue here.

Alcoholism is further controlled by Limited Access as only Government Stores are allowed to sell it, and they are usually closed by 6.

lazygood4nothinbum 03-28-2006 01:20 PM

Re: children
 
i envy your luxury of pondering whether or not to have kids. being born gay, i was never really afforded such decision. i suppose i could adopt, though even that is illegal in the state of florida.

i very much enjoyed the company of my little cousins when they were young. my cousin raised them knowing both their uncle & me as gay. my brother & sil however decided to keep me in the closet to "protect the innocence" of their young children. it was ok for heterosexuality to be flaunted before them in family life and on television, but gays could only exist on t.v., not in real life. so i was never very comfortable with them and didn't get to enjoy them as much as i would have liked. too bad, i would have made one hell of a great uncle.

still, i like to think my life valuable, even if i didn't accomplish some great act like producing another generation. and even if i were a breeder, looking back, had i the choice of having kids like my brother still working to pay their way through college or me retired early with my paid for convertible and future boat, i think i would not have changed a thing about my life. only i sure wish my brother & sil, while raising their kids, had accepted me better in theirs.

laurence 03-28-2006 01:34 PM

Re: children
 
Get out of the south! :)

My uncle adopted two kids here in CA, no prob.

lazygood4nothinbum 03-28-2006 02:10 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurence
Get out of the south!* :)

My uncle adopted two kids here in CA, no prob.

<big huge smile> thanx laurence. only i'm not sure i want to give up that boat and i don't think i can afford both and it's a bit late to redo the last 49 years of planning lol. so i'll have to make do.

i had a very moving experience a few weeks ago at the movies. the young man at the ticket counter had no hands and no arms. i couldn't see how much body there was below the counter. he had the most beautiful face. his left arm stopped just above the sleeve of his short sleeved shirt and hanging from there was a hand-like appendage with three fingers. i told him my movie and put my money directly into his "hand." i freaked out at how quickly he got me my ticket and change. he had this way of scooting the change across the counter so that it stopped directly in front of me, just short of the edge. i could tell immediately this guy was a great table hockey player. i thanked him and he told me to enjoy my movie but in those three words his voice said so much more.

early to the movie, i sat for a while and could not get this young man out of my mind. i wondered how does he go to the bathroom? what if he has an itch? how did he make it this far in life? i thought of all the supportive people he must have around him and i felt for his parents who, though surely must fear the day he will be without them, have obviously done everything they could to make him as independent as possible.

i thought about the idea of knowingly bringing such a child into this world. not knowing if i could do it, i started thinking about the meaning of all this. i could see thinking "how cruel to make someone live through that." i could see thinking "how compassionate to help someone live like that."

i looked in terms of reincarnation which i am not necessarily a believer in but to use only as a point of reference. as the structure of most reincarnation thought processes utilize karma i wondered, what horrible thing must a person have previously committed to justify life sans appendages. i thought there must be many such souls, flagging their spritual arms to have the chance for penance at the price of such an existance. "pick me, pick me," they cry. and how compassionate the parents to offer them such opportunity, that there might be a world even harder to live than armless at a movie ticket counter.

i looked in terms of nothing particularly spiritual, of the random chance of birth, of the luck of the womb. and i thought how cruel that life would allow for this. that this innocent child be made to live this hard life. and i thought how compassionate that life would allow this. that these innocent parents might have the opportunity to shower such love.

jayp465 03-29-2006 03:19 PM

Re: children
 
No kids .. No wife ... 48 yrs old ... most likely will never have any.

Calgary_Girl 03-29-2006 03:24 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345
I hear you on that one.* I really still cannot fathom why the medical profession seems almost eager to put forth the idea of abortion when DS is detected in an unborn kid.* They are still your kid...

This is why DH and I decided not to do any pre-natal testing when we found out that I was pregnant (even though I'm 33). Regardless of what the results would have been, this is still our child and we can deal with whatever curve ball life may throw at us.

brewer12345 03-29-2006 03:34 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgary_Girl
This is why DH and I decided not to do any pre-natal testing when we found out that I was pregnant (even though I'm 33).* Regardless of what the results would have been, this is still our child and we can deal with whatever curve ball life may throw at us.*

A wise decision, IMO. We had a standard blood test done that allegedly screens for down's syndrome, but is actually so prone to error that it is useless for all practical purposes. They told us the number was high, sent us for a second ultrasound and a week of fretting, to tell us it was nothing. If we do this again, no testing.

J-Lu 03-29-2006 06:15 PM

Re: children
 
I was 35 for my first pregnancy, which is considered to be the year that things can start to get "scary". I also declined the amnio test. Unless you are considering abortion (and we were not) , I really don't see any value. There is a chance that you can miscarry from it.

cute fuzzy bunny 03-29-2006 06:35 PM

Re: children
 
At 44, we decided not to take any 'tests' either. Then we both spent 9 months worrying.

laurence 03-29-2006 11:38 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345
A wise decision, IMO.* We had a standard blood test done that allegedly screens for down's syndrome, but is actually so prone to error that it is useless for all practical purposes.* They told us the number was high, sent us for a second ultrasound and a week of fretting, to tell us it was nothing.* If we do this again, no testing.

We took that test, too. Told us she was "normal". Terrible test.

SCFB, if you took the test and it came back positive, you would have spent the time worrying, too. And now that you know about false negatives...well. ;)

brewer12345 03-30-2006 06:44 AM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurence
SCFB, if you took the test and it came back positive, you would have spent the time worrying, too.* And now that you know about false negatives...well.* ;)

I think I could stand a false negative. After all, you're gonna have to deal with whatever it is anyway and there's nothing you can do about it, so a few months of less worry sounds OK to me.

I'm not sure my liver and hairline can stand another false positive.

P.S. 03-30-2006 08:23 AM

Re: children
 
Once upon a time didn't want any. Never much interested in kids, even as one. Ambivalent baby-sitter. Didn't even expect to get married in my line of work.
Well, did get married, and once hit 30, the "clock" started ticking. A couple of years later, ticking became bong-ing. Still wasn't even sure I wan't any kids, although DH did.

"Ummm, so if we started having children, how many do you think you might want?"
"Five!"

Well, DS is now five months old and we are just really blessed, really really thankful. There's life before I got pregnant, and life NOW. The life before is a hazy blip. If you want, I could post 300+ pics of this cute little guy.

Bimmerbill 03-30-2006 08:43 AM

Re: children
 
I'll be 40 in a few monts and my wife is 41.* We decided it was "now or never" and gave it a shot.* My daughter is 5 weeks old today!*

I was never comfortable with kids, especially really young babies.* I liked kids when they were old enough to climb on my lap and I could read to them.

But, I must say it's been amazing so far having one of my own.* I think its the future possibilites that's so exciting.* And the challenge to raise the child "right" to take advantages of all the possibilities.*

We were against the amnio, but after talking with the geneticist (she was like a Vegas odds maker, running the odds on everything) we decided to do it.* It was pretty scary.* Things turned out fine tho.

Now I know what people saying it isdifferent holding your own flesh and blood are talking about.*

old woman 04-08-2006 08:35 PM

Re: children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by claire
is there anyone else out there who doesnt have or want any? ::)

I don't have any but would have loved to have some. I will be 58 this month so it is a little late to start now.

old woman 04-08-2006 08:50 PM

Re: children
 

So............ for those that don't have kids, who are your beneficiaries?* Assuming you don't spend it all, who/what is going to get your stash?


I need to make a new will, long term boyfriend will get some cash and maybe a life tenancy in my house. I will leave cash and my house to my niece and nephew. Boyfriend will get my boat and furniture and stuff like that. I might change my mind and leave a trust for a great niece with down syndrome she will be 7 this month and probably won't ever earn a decent living but her parents are doing fine so they will take care of her. Or I might fund a wildlife rescue charity.
My current will leaves my house to my mom but she is 79 and doesn't need the money. My niece and nephew are on my 401K plan and my boyfriend on all other investment accounts.

Maximillion 04-09-2006 07:10 AM

Re: children
 
I know, had I no children and No long term Partner who was needy, monies to Sick Kids in Toronto for Cancer Research, monies to my Alma Mater, who lent me funds so I could graduate, monies to the local library to fund New Media.

Irwin41 04-10-2006 09:38 AM

Re: children
 
My wife 5x and I 61 are without. I was 41 when we got married (first time) and didn't want to have to worry about college costs at the time I was trying to retire. We do have two deadbeat cats we have to put up with. Just like having a permanent 2 year old. ;D


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