One more reason

[REWahoo]

Most of you are familiar with my ongoing “101 reasons you don’t want to move to Texas” rant. I just discovered reason number 102.

My BIL and his spouse recently retired and moved from Ohio to Texas. One of their two vehicles is a lease and he got a very nasty surprise when he transferred his registration to his new state of residence.

In most (all other?) states, if you lease a vehicle you pay sales tax on the difference between the sales price and the projected residual value when your lease expires. Not so in Texas, where sales tax is charged on the full sales price of the vehicle when you lease it. BIL learned this when the lady at the county tax office looked at his application paperwork and said, “Uh oh, registering a vehicle leased out of state. Sir, you aren’t going to have a good day.” And after he paid over $1,300 in taxes for license plates on his leased car, she was right.

To add insult to injury, if you decide you want to purchase a vehicle at the end of a lease, the state charges you sales tax again on the purchase price of the used vehicle. They get away with this using the following logic: The sales tax on the original lease was charged to the lessor, not the lessee. Therefore you aren’t being taxed twice for the same vehicle. Of course no leasing company is going to eat the cost of the sales tax so they pass it along to you in the lease payments. Result: you pay sales tax twice on the same vehicle, once when it was new, and again when it is sold as used.

A perfect example of sticking it to you at both ends…and why leasing is a lousy idea, especially in TX.

 

[Lazarus]

Sounds like another good reason not to lease vehicles.

Some years ago when I moved from Texas to California I was charged a $250 fee for both of my non-California emission equipped cars. Which both passed the California emissions test by the way. I said this violates the Constitution, you cant charge a tarriff on goods shipped between states. Eventually the California Supreme court agreed with us (and everyone else they had charged) and gave us our money back with interest.

Texas is a non income tax state. My wife worked in Texas but not in California. We filed Federal income tax jointly and found we ended up paying Calif. State income tax on the money she earned in Texas!

Some time after moving back to Texas I got a notice that my pay was going to be garnished? I found California was trying to charge me for registering my cars even though I had left the State! You can't have an unregistered car in Calif.
Took several months to get it all cleared up. They said I had to tell them when I left the State!

There are lots of tax glitches when moving between states but Calif. has got to be the worst.

In the past they tried to charge state income tax on people who had retired in Calif. and then moved out of state even though states do not have any authority to tax outside their borders.

Calif. even attempted to tax satellites in orbit that were made in California!

I will take Texas any day over putting up with living in California.

 

[REWahoo]

I will take Texas any day over putting up with living in California.

Hey! Be careful about saying things like that.

If we don't tell them about the fire ants, scorpions, rattlers, dust storms, hailstorms, tornadoes, killer bees, mosquitoes, ticks, chiggers, tarantulas, copperheads, cottonmouths, rabid skunks, wild hogs, oppressive heat & humidity, bleak desolate scenery, dirty beaches, polluted air, droughts, wildfires, water shortages, recurring floods, rednecks, unbelievably high property taxes, and lack of real estate appreciation...they might all move here!

 

[LOL!]

If we don't tell them about the fire ants, ..., rednecks, unbelievably high property taxes, and lack of real estate appreciation...they might all move here!

You forgot to put "other Californians" in that list.

 

[Martha]

And don't forget, it is the leading state in executions.

Minnesota:  No death penalty, 2.2 murders per hundred thousand
Texas:  Death penalty, 6.2 murders per hundred thousand

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/state/

 

[razztazz]

If we don't tell them about the fire ants, scorpions, rattlers, dust storms, hailstorms, tornadoes, killer bees, mosquitoes, ticks, chiggers, tarantulas, copperheads, cottonmouths, rabid skunks, wild hogs, oppressive heat & humidity, bleak desolate scenery, dirty beaches, polluted air, droughts, wildfires, water shortages, recurring floods, rednecks, unbelievably high property taxes, and lack of real estate appreciation...they might all move here!

This and some of the other comments here, are exactly why I
didn't masturbate the tax issue when I retired. Sure I did the research and there were a few states that were prohibitive but they were already excluded on other grounds long before I got down to the rax implications.

I coud have done better tax-wise but, excluding the Californias, and Massachusettses et al, it was a Grand Package Deal. Taxes are just the "membership fee" you pay to be where you want to be.

 

[REWahoo]

And don't forget, it is the leading state in executions.

Thanks Martha. I appreciate your support.

 

[astromeria]

A comparison of overall taxation by state, projected for 2006:
http://www.retirementliving.com/RLtaxburdens.html

Here's a surprising tidbit: my state of South Carolina has an overall tax rate just a tenth of a percent less than my son's state of Massachusetts--and both are better than average. Apparently "Taxachusetts" is a political zinger, not a reflection of reality.

 

[samclem]

And don't forget, it is the leading state in executions.

Minnesota: No death penalty, 2.2 murders per hundred thousand
Texas: Death penalty, 6.2 murders per hundred thousand

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/state/

Hmmm, which would be the cause, which would be the effect? Or maybe these are unrelated statistics . . .

 

[astromeria]

Hmmm, which would be the cause, which would be the effect?

Here are some studies--

Women's liberation (women leaving violent relationships) lowers murder rate:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1734202,00.html

Religious belief as the cause of societal disfunction:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1798944,00.html

Television as a cause of increase in murder rate:
http://hsx.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/5/2/114

No easy answers:

Without the deceptive comfort of myths, we are forced to confront reality. Liberals must face the fact that despite billions spent on social programs, changes to make the justice system more "fair," and new gun-control laws, the homicide rate doubled since the 1960s. Conservatives must face the fact that despite continuing family breakup, fatherless boys, decaying schools, and loss of respect for human life, the homicide rate fell by one-third in the 1990s. Advocates of drug legalization must face the fact that this fall in homicide occurred as the "war" on drugs continued. Opponents of violent films and video games must face the fact that as these increased, homicide as well as school violence fell, despite highly publicized shootings. Conversely, liberals must admit that the recent fall in homicide was associated with three-strikes laws and increasing use of the death penalty, while conservatives must admit that the fall in homicide was associated with low unemployment and a strong economy.
http://www.haciendapub.com/stolinsky.html

 

[2B]

And don't forget, it is the leading state in executions.

Minnesota:  No death penalty, 2.2 murders per hundred thousand
Texas:  Death penalty, 6.2 murders per hundred thousand

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/state/

I have always considered it our way of handling the illegal immigrant issue.  It just takes too long.

Of course, we're now filling Huntsville up with our friends from New Orleans.  We may need to add another shift.

Now Minnesota probably has a higher murder rate if you adjust the data for days with less than 3 feet of snow.  I doubt any serious cop killing or convenience store murders take place when the roads are iced over.

 

[Nords]

Hmmm, which would be the cause, which would be the effect?  Or maybe these are unrelated statistics . . .

I guess in Texas they only count the illegal murders, not the executions...

 

[2B]

I guess in Texas they only count the illegal murders, not the executions...

Unfortunately, including executions approved by the court system would only have an impact on the third decimal point.

 

[soupcxan]

I just registered my car in Texas, that had previously been registered in Florida. I saw that the FL DMV sent a registration renewal request to my old address in FL (as the expiration was approaching next month). I didn't do anything with the notice, but do I need to let FL know that I won't be renewing it to avoid situations like the one described below? I don't want to get some stupid fine/late fee whatever. I tried searching their website and google but no information for people moving out of state (only for people moving in).

Some time after moving back to Texas I got a notice that my pay was going to be garnished? I found California was trying to charge me for registering my cars even though I had left the State! You can't have an unregistered car in Calif.
Took several months to get it all cleared up. They said I had to tell them when I left the State!

 

[virginia]

Lazarus -
You wouldn't BELIEVE the fiasco I had when trying to get the title to my car in VA after I had paid the lien. VA wouldn't print the title without a CA title (where my car had been previously), or until I had a title from HI (also where my car had been previously). CA said I owed back registration - claimed they didn't get my change of address after I left and that I owed hundreds of dollars to them, and so wouldn't print a title. Those guys were the hardest people to work with EVER. Each clerk told me to do something different. It was more than frustrating.
Holy cow - what a mess! It took months to clear up. Now I will just get my car titled and registered in VA - even though I have to pay a stinking car tax - I'd rather do that than deal with this sort of hassle again!
Michelle

 

[virginia]

Soupcxan
Definitely let Florida know to avoid problems in the future. If you ever move back there, they may claim that you owe lots of money - OR - as happened to me, if you try to get the title to the vehicle in your new state, you may not be able to get the Florida title.

 

[Nords]

You wouldn't BELIEVE the fiasco I had when trying to get the title to my car in VA after I had paid the lien. VA wouldn't print the title without a CA title (where my car had been previously), or until I had a title from HI (also where my car had been previously).  CA said I owed back registration - claimed they didn't get my change of address after I left and that I owed hundreds of dollars to them, and so wouldn't print a title. Those guys were the hardest people to work with EVER. Each clerk told me to do something different. It was more than frustrating.
Holy cow - what a mess! It took months to clear up. Now I will just get my car titled and registered in VA - even though I have to pay a stinking car tax - I'd rather do that than deal with this sort of hassle again!
Michelle

CA has been the leading offender of states taxing military pensions.  They even went after veterans who'd been stationed in CA at some point, claiming that a portion of their military pension was earned in CA and therefore was taxable.  I think the Supreme Court finally put a stop to this.

We sold a home in CA and moved out of state in 1989.  They eventually tracked us down with a huge threatening tax-due bill for the cap gains.  The paperwork clearly showed us how to send a check to the state before they took all sorts of legal action, and nowhere did it explain how to prove that you no longer owed a cap gains tax.  It's easy to see how some people would just pay the money to get them off their case.

 

[Ol_Rancher]

  There are taxes and there are taxes. One way Austin and Travis County managed to tax evict me and most other civil servants from the city and  is the use of fees. On a city owned utility bill you will find fees for enviornment, road repair, drainage, waste water, and more, almost as many and as confusing as a phone bill.

  Then we have 'taxing authorities'. Each time a group of feel-good citizens in Austin want to use your money and give it to others they attempt a new taxing authority like transit, hospital, EMS, library, community college or any other service you already pay for or would not use.

  As for the death penalty in Texas just cuff the guy who came up with 'one-plus' health insurance for municipal employees and get a rope.

  Meanwhile I can broker complete medical coverage for anyone here with a life threatening disease in Austin if you are willing to live for a few weeks with a municipal employee as his/her one-plus covered household member.

This medical coverage even covers scorpion stings of which I have received two this summer. Those critters are a damn nuisance when ya find 'em in your sink several times a month.

 

[REWahoo]

This medical coverage even covers scorpion stings of which I have received two this summer. Those critters are a damn nuisance when ya find 'em in your sink several times a month.

Sink scorpion stings stink.

 

[HFWR]

Easy for you to say...

 

[astromeria]

...scorpion stings of which I have received two this summer. Those critters are a damn nuisance when ya find 'em in your sink several times a month.

When we got palmetto bugs in our house (when the summer weather turned colder), I got someone to caulk/flash better where the plumbing enters the house from the crawl space, and had DH put a glue board next to the pipes under the dishwasher. Worked great--wonder if it would help with the scorpions.

 

[mickeyd]

I see the problem.

A perfect example of sticking it to you at both ends…and why leasing is a lousy idea, especially in TX.

You see, if the vehicle would have been a pickumup truck, there would have been no Texas problem. Yankee cars should be heavily taxed so that native Texans can have lower taxes/fees/executions.

It's what we prefer.

 

[Leonidas]

All non-Texans read here:

You really don’t want to move here. Today I chaperoned a busload of middle schools students who went to the beach for seashore cleanup. The jellyfish were huge - I saw one as big as a Volkswagen. And the rays were wingtip to wingtip, with their deadly tails snapping at the children. It was terrible. Stay in California.


Sekrit message fer Texans – espeshully REWahoo:

I think your BIL needs to hike back to the County Tax Assessor’s office and get himself a refund:

Vehicle Leased Outside Texas

When a vehicle is leased in another state and the lessee brings it to Texas for public highway use, the lessee (as the operator) owes motor vehicle use tax.

The use tax is based on the price the lessor paid for the vehicle with credit given for any tax the lessor or the lessee paid to another state.

Effective September 1, 1999, a vehicle previously leased in another state and subsequently brought into Texas for use by a new resident/lessee may be registered for the new resident use tax of $90. Emphasis added

http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/audit/mv/10.htm#vl_out

The way I read this, if your BIL was already a Texas resident and leased a car out of state, then he would have to pay a use fee / tax on the total amount that the car cost. However, even then he would be allowed to apply the amount he paid to the other state as a credit. But, since he was a non-Texas resident, he should be allowed to title the car here for the $90 fee.

In response to the hijacked part of this thread that dealt with the death penalty and the deterrence effect:

And don't forget, it is the leading state in executions.

Minnesota: No death penalty, 2.2 murders per hundred thousand
Texas: Death penalty, 6.2 murders per hundred thousand

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/state/

From the same source and the UCR:

Washington DC: No death penalty, 35.4 murders per hundred thousand
West Virginia: No death penalty, 4.4 murders per hundred thousand

Montana: Death penalty, 1.9 murders per hundred thousand
Oregon: Death penalty, 2.2 murders per hundred thousand
Utah: Death penalty, 2.3 murders per hundred thousand
New Hampshire: Death penalty, 1.4 murders per hundred thousand
Nebraska: Death penalty, 2.5 murders per hundred thousand

There are a lot of variables in determining crime rates. And yes, climate is one of them - so those snow days up there in Minnesota do count.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/index.html

It might be better to examine crime rate trends. 2004-2005, Texas violent crime down 1.9%, Minnesota up 2.6%.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_staff/public_information/ucr 2005.pdf
http://www.dps.state.mn.us/bca/CJIS/documents/Crime2005/MCI2005.pdf

 

[REWahoo]

I see the problem.
You see, if the vehicle would have been a pickumup truck, there would have been no Texas problem. Yankee cars should be heavily taxed so that native Texans can have lower taxes/fees/executions.

It's what we prefer.

heh heh heh. His other vehicle (not leased) is a pickup. Only a small fee to register that one.

(I told him he was making a mistake when he moved from TX to OH 30 years ago. But would he listen to his BIL? Nooooooooo.... )

 

[REWahoo]

All non-Texans read here:

You really don’t want to move here. Today I chaperoned a busload of middle schools students who went to the beach for seashore cleanup. The jellyfish were huge - I saw one as big as a Volkswagen. And the rays were wingtip to wingtip, with their deadly tails snapping at the children. It was terrible. Stay in California.

You forgot to mention the growing population of deadly salt water scorpions, a recent mutation believed to be the result of millions of "regular" scorpions washed down sink drains after stinging TX residents.

Sekrit message fer Texans – espeshully REWahoo:

I think your BIL needs to hike back to the County Tax Assessor’s office and get himself a refund:
http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/audit/mv/10.htm#vl_out

The way I read this, if your BIL was already a Texas resident and leased a car out of state, then he would have to pay a use fee / tax on the total amount that the car cost. However, even then he would be allowed to apply the amount he paid to the other state as a credit. But, since he was a non-Texas resident, he should be allowed to title the car here for the $90 fee.

He wishes it was that easy...

Unfortunately, the $90 road use fee he paid is in addition to the sales tax screwing payment:

Motor Vehicle Sales, Use, and Rental Tax

There is a 6.25 percent use tax on the selling price (less trade-in allowance) of a motor vehicle purchased outside of the state and later brought into the state for use on Texas highways by a Texas resident. The tax also applies to vehicles leased in another state and registered in Texas by a Texas resident.

He did get credit for the tax he paid on the lease in Ohio or his $1,300 tab would have been almost twice as much.