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-   -   Repeal the 15 Minute Edit Limit (https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f32/repeal-the-15-minute-edit-limit-28566.html)

TromboneAl 07-02-2007 09:45 AM

Repeal the 15 Minute Edit Limit
 
The 15-minute limit on editing does more harm than good. Today someone posted some incorrect information concerning taxes, and when he found he was wrong, couldn't go back to fix it. Someone else might see his original post, but not see his correcting post.

Mr. Gorbachov, tear down this wall!

Martha 07-02-2007 10:12 AM

I'll discuss it with the rest of "management."

mickeyd 07-02-2007 11:45 AM

I agree with Al.

BTW, what is the reason why there is any retrictions at all on a post that we may make? Too much of Big Brother?

retire@40 07-02-2007 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeyd (Post 531401)
I agree with Al.

BTW, what is the reason why there is any retrictions at all on a post that we may make? Too much of Big Brother?

Strange that we only have 15 minutes to fix our own post here but the IRS gives us 3 years to fix our tax returns.

Nords 07-02-2007 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeyd (Post 531401)
Too much of Big Brother?

Hey, how do you think the rest of us became moderators?!?

The problem lies with those very few individuals who insisted on editing the official record to suit their changing priorities. This resulted in many critical threads being totally gutted of semantic context because other poster's responses depended on subsequently-deleted posts. One poster's ruminations on his financial advisor and his own impending ER were a classic on emotional turmoil and how not to ER, but he deleted the whole thing before we realized what was happening. Others have gotten cold feet about their years of being naked in cyberspace and have attempted to delete their record. Again we can't benefit from their contributions, let alone their examples.

So there'll be some "grace period" allowing posters to edit their posts. After that you'll have to PM a moderator to make your changes, and that's a lot more common than you may think.

haha 07-02-2007 01:41 PM

Quote:

The problem lies with those very few individuals who insisted on editing the official record to suit their changing priorities. This resulted in many critical threads being totally gutted of semantic context because other poster's responses depended on subsequently-deleted posts. So there'll be some "grace period" allowing posters to edit their posts.


I fail to see the problem. We all know who is blowing smoke; and as to semantic sense, well you tell me- how much worse could that get?

Also on ocassion I have exceeded even my tolerance for sarcasm directed at others. I have been unhappy that I could't make my impoliteness disappear.

And then there is spelling. It would seem weird to PM a moderator-please help me look less stupid and repair my spelling!

Ha

Rich_by_the_Bay 07-02-2007 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retire@40 (Post 531405)
Strange that we only have 15 minutes to fix our own post here but the IRS gives us 3 years to fix our tax returns.

Hmm..

Send me 28% of your annual income and I'll give you 5 years to fix your posts ;).

Rich_by_the_Bay 07-02-2007 01:47 PM

Just to let y'all know that the mods are mulling this around even as we speak. As Nords says, the trick is to allow enough edit time to correct the usual errors, while not letting enough time go by that replies start to accumulate. Changing a post after replies have been sent leads to confusion for all subsequent readers.

brewer12345 07-02-2007 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa (Post 531459)
Changing a post after replies have been sent leads to confusion for all subsequent readers.

Horse-puckey. How on earth could fixing typos or amplifying a point after replies have been made make that much of a difference?

REWahoo 07-02-2007 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha (Post 531455)
Also on ocassion I have exceeded even my tolerance for sarcasm directed at others. I have been unhappy that I could't make my impoliteness disappear.

Can any of us make the impoliteness of our spoken words disappear? No, you can't un-ring a bell.

But we can apologize for things we may regret posting saying and perhaps think before posting speaking next time. :)

REWahoo 07-02-2007 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 (Post 531463)
Horse-puckey. How on earth could fixing typos or amplifying a point after replies have been made make that much of a difference?

Agreed.

The problem is there is no way to limit edits to amplification and/or correcting typos. One prolific forum member deleted hundreds of his posts before huffing off. The result was threads that made little sense or had huge gaps in continuity.

Not good.

Rich_by_the_Bay 07-02-2007 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 (Post 531463)
Horse-puckey. How on earth could fixing typos or amplifying a point after replies have been made make that much of a difference?

Fixing typos is one thing. Totally munging a message is another. Both have occured.

Danny 07-02-2007 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo (Post 531465)
Agreed.

The problem is there is no way to limit edits to amplification and/or correcting typos. One prolific forum member deleted hundreds of his posts before huffing off. The result was threads that made little sense or had huge gaps in continuity.

Not good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa (Post 531473)
Fixing typos is one thing. Totally munging a message is another. Both have occured.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords (Post 531409)
The problem lies with those very few individuals who insisted on editing the official record to suit their changing priorities. This resulted in many critical threads being totally gutted of semantic context because other poster's responses depended on subsequently-deleted posts. One poster's ruminations on his financial advisor and his own impending ER were a classic on emotional turmoil and how not to ER, but he deleted the whole thing before we realized what was happening. Others have gotten cold feet about their years of being naked in cyberspace and have attempted to delete their record. Again we can't benefit from their contributions, let alone their examples.

So there'll be some "grace period" allowing posters to edit their posts. After that you'll have to PM a moderator to make your changes, and that's a lot more common than you may think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa (Post 531459)
Just to let y'all know that the mods are mulling this around even as we speak. As Nords says, the trick is to allow enough edit time to correct the usual errors, while not letting enough time go by that replies start to accumulate. Changing a post after replies have been sent leads to confusion for all subsequent readers.



I don't think the forum has suffered since that huffy prolific guy left with his posts - I don't think they were THAT important and they certainly didn't qualify for Library of Congress type preservation - "Official Record" - are you kidding?. If they opened up the editing we could probably get the no good miscreant to come back and redo those important posts or at least change some of the blog linkage for the essential ones that would help the continuity and fiill in the gaps so folks won't get confused. :'(

This is just plain silly. The control mentality and the making of mountains out of molehills is what I wanted to get away from when I quit going to work. At the end of the day this concern about preserving trains of thought adds up to really nothing. I can't believe what I'm reading here from the mods.

brewer12345 07-02-2007 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo (Post 531465)
Agreed.

The problem is there is no way to limit edits to amplification and/or correcting typos. One prolific forum member deleted hundreds of his posts before huffing off. The result was threads that made little sense or had huge gaps in continuity.

Not good.


So why penalize the rest of us over one bad apple?

Take corrective action :bat: when necessary with the few trouble-makers and let the rest of us edit. You mods can act out your control obsession at the Forum dungeon with leather outfits, paddles, dog chains and whips (with h05uk as the victim).

TromboneAl 07-02-2007 03:31 PM

I'd suggest that the disadvantage of sometimes modifying the meaning of posts is outweighed by the disadvantage of having incorrect or damaging information left uncorrected. For example, the consequences of having the following remain uncorrected is 20 years in prison with a cell mate named Randy John.

If your qualified medical expenses are greater than 7.5% of your AGI, you can deduct the entire expense. If it is less than 7.5%, you can't deduct anything.

REWahoo 07-02-2007 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TromboneAl (Post 531496)
For example, the consequences of having the following remain uncorrected is 20 years in prison with a cell mate named Randy John.

If your qualified medical expenses are greater than 7.5% of your AGI, you can deduct the entire expense. If it is less than 7.5%, you can't deduct anything.

Only if you believe what you read on the internet...and act on it.

And think of the upside. Randy John may really need a 'friend' to help him do pass the time. ;)

clifp 07-02-2007 04:09 PM

Not being able to correct any typos and errors is one of the reasons, I have largely stop contributing to the Motley Fool. I found TMF's reasons for not allowing editing (it is a financial website people could do nasty pump and dump things) pretty unconvincing.

Honestly, for the rare case where deleting/modifying posts makes a major difference the moderators can and probably should post a small note explaining what happened.

I am a horrible proofreader of my own work, and often leave out words or whole phrases that make my posts difficult to comprehend. Sometimes this take more than 15 minutes for me to catch. In the case of overheated exchanges, I see no harm in giving the participants the power to delete them. Finally, I think it is very important to allow people to correct inaccurate information with respect to financial advice. Figuring out that opps I was wrong is going to take a lot longer than 15 minutes.

Regarding believing what you read on the internet. As far as investment and tax advice if 8 out of 10 people on this forum say X is the answer and my Tax professional or Schwab Advisors says Y is the answer, I am more inclined to believe the consenus on this forum than any one individual.

haha 07-02-2007 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo (Post 531464)
Can any of us make the impoliteness of our spoken words disappear? No, you can't un-ring a bell.

But we can apologize for things we may regret posting saying and perhaps think before posting speaking next time. :)

Yes, of course, I have no idea why I didn't think of that.

Ha

nfs 07-02-2007 06:13 PM

I act as an administrator at another financial forum. I think there are sound reasons for limiting edit times, because forum members really do get peeved about trivialities and, as Andy says, huff off after deleting much of the content they posted, turning entire threads into undecipherable Swiss cheese.

That said, that sort of behavior isn't addressed by a 15 minute time limit on edits. The administration's interest in maintaining the integrity of discussions argues for a limit, but the problem is in having week or month or year old posts mangled, not something from earlier in the day.

15 minutes is too short. Forever is too long. Consider something in between.

We use 48 hours at FWF, which gives members a chance to fix spelling and grammatical errors. It probably lets some sanitize their remarks but that's pretty rare. If someone is involved in a heated argument, it usually won't blow over fast enough for someone to have sober second thoughts and amend the record.

And, when all else fails and the time limit has expired, as ReWahoo says, you can always insert a correction and if necessary an apology.

P.S. I think moderators should not be editing any posts at the request of the original writer. Moderators are not flunkies to do the members' bidding.

cute fuzzy bunny 07-02-2007 06:22 PM

All darn good advice.

Now if we could just get an email client with a breathalyser option, all would be well in the universe...

HFWR 07-02-2007 06:35 PM

How high should your blood alcohol content be before you get to post? :p

cute fuzzy bunny 07-02-2007 06:39 PM

I'm more interested in the BAC levels required to be a board operator... :p

Andy R 07-02-2007 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny (Post 531565)
I'm more interested in the BAC levels required to be a board operator... :p

Speaking of, I think I should have a drink now. Is everyone else as stressed from the closed poll drama tonight? I need to learn to "know when to say when" in regards to closing polls on the FIRE Democracy. Hey, maybe it is a good idea, I could not image a smarter group of people to lead an online community but I suspect the partisan politics would be brutal.

cute fuzzy bunny 07-02-2007 08:23 PM

Hornitos based margaritas just got served at la casa de bunny.

Khan 07-02-2007 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy R (Post 531625)
Speaking of, I think I should have a drink now. Is everyone else as stressed from the closed poll drama tonight? I need to learn to "know when to say when" in regards to closing polls on the FIRE Democracy. Hey, maybe it is a good idea, I could not image a smarter group of people to lead an online community but I suspect the partisan politics would be brutal.

A tempest in a teapot.

dgalbraith100 07-02-2007 09:57 PM

My idea is of course complex to implement, but...

I would like to see a merging of the 15 minute rule and the allow to edit forever. I think you should be allowed to edit for 15 minutes/30 minutes/2 hours/whatever with no record left of your edit, but I think you should be allowed to edit forever BUT your edit leaves a track.

Once your trackless edit window expires, your edits shows up in the thread with a warning that this post has been edited. Then if the reader chooses to, he can follow the edits down and see what was originally posted. (So if I'm reading a thread I can see that Joe posted a correction to his statement, and I don't need to see that what his original post was, because I know Joe, and I trust he isn't trying to cover something up, he is just fixing a typo, misspelling, nothing mallicious... but if John changes his post to "cover up", I can see what he originally said and know he is just trying to BS us.)

If somebody chooses to delete their post after the "hidden window", then in initial viewing of the thread the post shows up as:

----
Post by XXX deleted on YYY date.
----

and a link that allows somebody to view the underlying post. Then if I know its John who deleted his post, I don't need to bother to dig deeper cause I know its just a BS post anyway. :)

I'd also allow "undeletes" as well, but that leaves a track as well:
----
Post by XXX deleted on YYY date.
Post by XXX undeleted on YYY date.

Post...
----

Just my random thoughts.

Read this quick, maybe in 14 minutes I'll delete it, oh and sorry "John", didn't mean to pick on you. :)

-d.

HFWR 07-03-2007 07:08 AM

Hey, we'll have none of that good idea $hit around here... :p

HFWR 07-03-2007 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khan (Post 531656)
A tempest in a teapot.


https://www.websmileys.com/sm/fingers/fing02.gif

cute fuzzy bunny 07-03-2007 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo (Post 531465)
One prolific forum member deleted hundreds of his posts before huffing off. The result was threads that made little sense or had huge gaps in continuity.


Just for my own edification, which one of the prolific forum members that left in a huff are we talking about? ;)

brewer12345 07-03-2007 09:27 AM

So, um, did the "keepers of the flame" make a decision yet?

REWahoo 07-03-2007 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny (Post 531738)
Just for my own edification, which one of the prolific forum members that left in a huff are we talking about? ;)

Although there have been several that might fit into this category, the example I was referring to was Ted. :)

cute fuzzy bunny 07-03-2007 09:40 AM

I didnt know he'd deleted any of his stuff.

REWahoo 07-03-2007 10:12 AM

I could be wrong about Ted deleting posts. His departure took place almost 5 years ago and it's hard to keep the particulars of every huff-offer straight in my mind. :)

retire@40 07-03-2007 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo (Post 531820)
I could be wrong about Ted deleting posts. His departure took place almost 5 years ago and it's hard to keep the particulars of every huff-offer straight in my mind. :)

Wow!!! We can't have more than 15 minutes to edit our posts because of what one guy may have done 5 years ago.

I'm starting to fear the mods here more than my mother. :bat:

REWahoo 07-03-2007 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retire@40 (Post 531842)
I'm starting to fear the mods here more than my mother. :bat:

Now were starting to get somewhere...:D

Danny 07-03-2007 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retire@40 (Post 531842)
Wow!!! We can't have more than 15 minutes to edit our posts because of what one guy may have done 5 years ago.

I'm starting to fear the mods here more than my mother. :bat:

Some months ago I scraped up some of my droppings and put them on some blogs I was starting up and left links to the posts so people would come visit me. I thought they belonged to me and wanted to benefit from the effort I put forth the same that Andy was/is benefiting. Most of the links are active, but some of those blobgs were mistakes I soon found out and were jettisoned. However, I can't edit the links to point to the current blogs. I edited out some posts that revealed too much about my situation and I didn't want them available for privacy, security & legal reasons- lawyer's advice. So sue me, I've got 2 law firms I'm already writing checks to each month anyway. So there you have it. I don't feel I've ruined the forum by doing what I've done. My new approach to what I post here is to leave it and just copy up a version for one of the blogs, if I think it will travel. Yesterday, I also decided not to post as much here anymore and certainly nothing that requires any effort or talks about my personal life. I really don't care for the rules and restrictions I already have to deal with in my life and I don't want to deal with any here, especially with any AR types that don't get out of the house enough, that haven't had a good BM in a week.

haha 07-03-2007 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo (Post 531792)
Although there have been several that might fit into this category, the example I was referring to was Ted. :)

Intersting that Ted was one of the most well informed and intelligent people who spent any significant time here.Ditto SG. Que esta pasando? :p

cute fuzzy bunny 07-03-2007 12:33 PM

Yeah, Ted sure was a smart guy
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted (Post 265392)
So if you don't like my negative comments about people who want to drop out of the workforce, maximize their social security benefits and reduce their taxes, and then claim that they are doing the rest of the country some sort of favor, screw you.


justin 07-03-2007 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanTien (Post 531859)
I edited out some posts that revealed too much about my situation and I didn't want them available for privacy, security & legal reasons- lawyer's advice.... I don't feel I've ruined the forum by doing what I've done.... Yesterday, I also decided not to post as much here anymore and certainly nothing that requires any effort or talks about my personal life. I really don't care for the rules and restrictions I already have to deal with in my life and I don't want to deal with any here...

I'm starting to feel like you, Dantien. Everything I have written is my intellectual property as far as I'm concerned (worthless as it may be...). However, at this point I am unable to modify any of my 3,000 odd posts. Some of them I would like to get rid of since they are detritus or may, in hindsight, not have been in good taste. People change over time and I may not believe now what I said I believed in the past. Also, there might be personal information contained within my posts, that viewed as a whole, could be damaging.

Since my written word is apparently no longer 100% mine 15 minutes after I hit the "submit reply" button, I don't feel as compelled to submit my comments any more. If I ever do get pissed off enough to storm out of here, I feel it is my right to take what is mine with me. In the meantime, I'll probably stick around though, as long as the mood suits me.

However the cynical side of me knows that every word I write is going to enrich the corporate owner of this site, and that one of the main reasons for a prohibition on deleting old posts is to make the forum as large as possible to increase the ad views and google hits.

Martha 07-03-2007 01:10 PM

As I posted in Sam's thread with the poll, the limit has been increased to 6 hours. I also gave some history in Sam's thread as to why we ended up with a time limit.

Justin, we all take some risk by posting here day in and day out about our lives and our opinions. What is done is done. We can't all just take it back. Don't worry so much. Our IP isn't that valuable and odds are only soon to be ex spouses would be interested in what we disclose here anyway. ;)

justin 07-03-2007 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martha (Post 531903)
As I posted in Sam's thread with the poll, the limit has been increased to 6 hours. I also gave some history in Sam's thread as to why we ended up with a time limit.

Justin, we all take some risk by posting here day in and day out about our lives and our opinions. What is done is done. We can't all just take it back. Don't worry so much. Our IP isn't that valuable and odds are only soon to be ex spouses would be interested in what we disclose here anyway. ;)

I didn't realize the outrage at OAP's thread/post deletion was greater than the outrage at not being able to edit our posts at our own pace as we see fit (including the right to delete any or all posts at any time).

Maybe you guys, as mods, have a better feel for "public opinion" on the board, and I hope that you all will continue to act in the manner that enhances the user experience for users of this board to the greatest extent possible. Hopefully not too many folks will leave and we can maintain a critical mass of posters to make reading and posting here a worthwhile experience. :rant: ;)

cute fuzzy bunny 07-03-2007 03:22 PM

Awww...I agree with Justin. Dangit.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Martha (Post 531903)
Our IP isn't that valuable


And I agree with Martha!

However...it'd be nice if we picked a sentiment and stuck with it. Either the material is so valuable we cant let you go back and delete your own, or its not particularly valuable.

At least management has improved on not removing and ending discussions about the value and editability of our discussions while saying we're doing it to preserve the value of our discussions.

Does "We burned the village to save the village" pretty much cover it?

Honestly and having seen the occasional carnage first hand...I think we can live without the meandering discussions on underage asian girls, spending all your money now and trusting that social security will bail you out for the next 70 years, the merits of recycling condoms and chewing gum from raw sewage, and why all early retirees are parasitic scumbags that should be ashamed of themselves.

Whoops. Did I say all of that out loud?:)

Having said all of that, I've probably gone back and deleted a good 1500-2000 of my posts. Yeah, no ****...

In some of the early stuff I revealed a lot of details before discovering that everyone here likes to play the fan dance. I revealed the place and date of my sons birth within a few days of the event, photos of him and the "we had a baby!" sign in front of my house with the street # in plain view. I made specific comments about former managers and employees and where we all worked that were nice when I was still fairly anonymous but probably not a good idea once I became rather well known and known about. And it seemed less bright after someones kids were threatened by one of the now banned board whackos.

Sometimes things change, and when that context changes, so should some of the content.

That having been said, without the ability to edit or delete, I simply changed what I say and how I say it. So the content probably isnt as good. (yeah go ahead, slow and over the plate).

brewer12345 07-03-2007 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justin (Post 531896)
I'm starting to feel like you, Dantien. Everything I have written is my intellectual property as far as I'm concerned (worthless as it may be...). However, at this point I am unable to modify any of my 3,000 odd posts. Some of them I would like to get rid of since they are detritus or may, in hindsight, not have been in good taste. People change over time and I may not believe now what I said I believed in the past. Also, there might be personal information contained within my posts, that viewed as a whole, could be damaging.

Since my written word is apparently no longer 100% mine 15 minutes after I hit the "submit reply" button, I don't feel as compelled to submit my comments any more. If I ever do get pissed off enough to storm out of here, I feel it is my right to take what is mine with me. In the meantime, I'll probably stick around though, as long as the mood suits me.

However the cynical side of me knows that every word I write is going to enrich the corporate owner of this site, and that one of the main reasons for a prohibition on deleting old posts is to make the forum as large as possible to increase the ad views and google hits.

What he said.

cute fuzzy bunny 07-03-2007 03:26 PM

Too late, I already agreed with him. I believe theres only room in the license for one additional seat.

But then again, you arent reading this, right?... :2funny:

justin 07-03-2007 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny (Post 531963)
Too late, I already agreed with him. I believe theres only room in the license for one additional seat.

But then again, you arent reading this, right?... :2funny:

You know I'm charging $0.50 per seat on this "agree with justin" license, right? Payable in b33v3r ch33z3 futures upon demand. Non-negotiable. And who said my IP isn't valuable? I've always thought my IP was the most important IP in the whole world. Apparently at least 2* folks agree with me.



* caution: do not be confused by large numbers such as 2. This represents only 0.000000000333% of the people in the world.

cute fuzzy bunny 07-03-2007 03:45 PM

And not to be outdone, china has 12 guys that agree with you. But they're all poisonous to eat, touch or burn.

kumquat 07-04-2007 09:45 AM

I've always been a believer in "he who pays the piper .........." and it's dory's board.

Danny 07-04-2007 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kumquat (Post 532238)
I've always been a believer in "he who pays the piper .........." and it's dory's board.

https://www.hamiltonpolicepipeband.co...rummajorbw.jpg

I once paid/donated to Pipe Major Dory $115 when it was an altruistic forum...so do I get to call the tune of "Go Down Moses (Let My Posts Go)" ;) Also, is it really Dory's board anymore?

Telly 07-04-2007 11:43 AM

Quick! Everyone hire an internet Lawyer!

Geeze, people!

If you post on an internet board while being too boozed to hit enough of the keys in the proper order, it ain't a spelling mistake.

If you have trouble spelling, preview your post!

Does anyone here actually READ their post after they posted it, to see if they mispelled something, and want to correct it? Or see that their phrases were contorted, and want to correct them? Go ahead. 15 mins. is more than enough. However, if you are convinced that whatever you have to say is just so special to the world, and you have to pour it out as fast as you can, else us poor slobs will not have enough of your wisdom... then I don't think anything will help.

I laughed when I read that some people here thought that posting comments meant that their text was intellectual property, owned by them!

If a person posts something stupid, and someone responds, why should the original poster be able to go back and remove their stupidity? Because they might "look stupid" if they can't? What!!! What kind of twisted world are some of you trying to create here? Talk about living in a fairy land... I think some people here are dragging their anchor.

I wish I would have never read this thread. My opinion of the environment here has taken a hit.

Moderators, like I said before in a post, I've been there, done that, didn't need the hassle of being a Moderator anywhere anymore. Thanks for keeping on!
Internet is being ruined by a crop of namby-pamby people who complain about everything and want to manipulate the environment to coddle them. Oh oh, I looked stupid, mommy, help! My self-esteem, it's damaged, let me rewrite history to fix it, it's not my fault, it's their fault, Mommmeeee!

I've rarily blasted on this, or any other forum. But the topic here just went over the top on me-firstism. But it may be the old story... just a few who are vocal, and the silent majority may be fine.

brewer12345 07-04-2007 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kumquat (Post 532238)
I've always been a believer in "he who pays the piper .........." and it's dory's board.

Ummm, last I checked, dory sold this board down the river to a consolidator.

Danny 07-04-2007 01:21 PM

how many beers have you had Telly...

kumquat 07-04-2007 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 (Post 532292)
Ummm, last I checked, dory sold this board down the river to a consolidator.


OK, then it's "the consolidator's" board.

cute fuzzy bunny 07-04-2007 05:56 PM

My $15 a month internet lawyer says we have a good shot at contesting the term "spelling mistake"...

retire@40 07-04-2007 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telly (Post 532282)
...If you have trouble spelling, preview your post!

Does anyone here actually READ their post after they posted it, to see if they mispelled something, and want to correct it? Or see that their phrases were contorted, and want to correct them? Go ahead. 15 mins. is more than enough...

The funniest part of your post is that you misspelled the word "misspelled."

Apparently, you don't practice what you preach.

Hope you have time to go back and fix it.

cute fuzzy bunny 07-04-2007 09:58 PM

He does...about 2.5 more hours...

justin 07-05-2007 09:20 AM

Guys, guys. Lay off Telly. Speling is hard. Especially now that we have a built in spell checker in the forum software that UNDERLINES IN RED misspelled words. :) Maybe his spellchecker was broken and that's why he's so irate. ???

Telly 08-16-2007 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanTien (Post 532313)
how many beers have you had Telly...

None, Dan. But I tried "some of that wet imported sh*t from the ship that capsized off Key West" ;D

Telly 08-16-2007 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny (Post 532481)
He does...about 2.5 more hours...

What? You mean I can't come back over a month later, and change history? It's a travesty, I tell ya... ;)

Telly 08-16-2007 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retire@40 (Post 532476)
The funniest part of your post is that you misspelled the word "misspelled."

Apparently, you don't practice what you preach.

Hope you have time to go back and fix it.

I preach Mutually Assured Destruction... how 'bout you?

Telly 08-16-2007 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justin (Post 532619)
Guys, guys. Lay off Telly. Speling is hard. Especially now that we have a built in spell checker in the forum software that UNDERLINES IN RED misspelled words. :) Maybe his spellchecker was broken and that's why he's so irate. ???

No, I wasn't irate, Justin. Sorry if I sounded that way. I didn't notice that there was a spellchecker here now, but probably won't use it anyway.
My lecture wasn't about spelling, it was about people wanting to re-do history for their (present) convenience.

HFWR 08-19-2007 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telly (Post 547305)
None, Dan. But I tried "some of that wet imported sh*t from the ship that capsized off Key West" ;D

I miss Shel Siverstein...

Telly 08-20-2007 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFWR (Post 548101)
I miss Shel Siverstein...

Very good! I'm impressed! I didn't think anybody here'd get that one.

HFWR 08-20-2007 02:18 PM

"The Kid demands a Smokeoff. 'Well bring him on', say Pearl. 'I'll grind his fingers off his hands; he'll roll until he drops!'
Says Callestoge 'I'll smoke that chick 'til she blows up and pops.'"

Telly 08-20-2007 02:27 PM

"The Shashniks from Bagoon, who smoke the deadly 'Poog - a - Roo'"

chinaco 08-26-2007 05:16 AM

Andy, :mad:

I think you should relax the time limit to edit further. Bottom line is that the vast majority of people do not abuse that situation but have legitimate reasons to edit posts from time to time.

The few people that have deleted their posts does not seem like a good excuse.

If you want to lock it down after a month or some (longer period), that might strike a balance that is reasonable... 2 or 3 hours is not long enough. Too restrictive.

It comes down to one point. You are restricting the many because of a couple of people that did something that got you upset.


Another bone to pick. I do not appreciate you putting google analytics on the site to harvest info... Seems like a bit of a privacy issue. :mad::mad:

I recognize that you have an expense that you need to take care of, but if you are doing it at the expense of my privacy. I think I will stop using the service.

Nords 08-26-2007 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinaco (Post 550067)
The few people that have deleted their posts does not seem like a good excuse.
If you want to lock it down after a month or some (longer period), that might strike a balance that is reasonable... 2 or 3 hours is not long enough. Too restrictive.
It comes down to one point. You are restricting the many because of a couple of people that did something that got you upset.

I'm no shill, but the "no deletion" policy was put in place after OldAgePensioner, and later Cut-Throat, deleted many of their posts and screwed up dozens of threads. This was before Andy's time and it wasn't his decision.

So yeah, the many are being punished for the actions of a few. But I see this board as a knowledge/reference archive as well as a recreational chat facility. Once you post it you lose control of it.

If you can't live with those rules then you should find a board you like better or start one of your own.

chinaco 08-27-2007 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords (Post 550252)
If you can't live with those rules then you should find a board you like better or start one of your own.


I posted this now because I ran into several situations (on recently) where I needed to make a change (clarification) after 2.5 hours. I have had it happen several times.

Is that OK with you. Or should I check with you to get permission the next time? :rolleyes:

You seem to be very passionate (note the kind term) about this issue. To the point that your emotions override decorum and what runs out of your mouth... in this case off your fingers. Seems a bit like a defensive reaction from someone who had a heavy hand in making a poor (and unpopular) decision.

Those deleted posts could probably be recovered if any normal procedures are in place. There are other ways to deal with the potential problem and maintain flexibility... It would just take little planning and work.

Goonie 08-27-2007 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinaco (Post 550270)
I posted this now because I ran into several situations (on recently) where I needed to make a change (clarification) after 2.5 hours. I have had it happen several times.

Couldn't you just make a new, updated post with the clarification in it? That's worked for me several times, and I'm sure for others also. It seems to me that that is much simpler, than to expect Andy or the Mods to sort through a bunch of deletions/corrections (if they are available to sort through) and decide what should be allowed or disallowed. Of course, this is just one person's opinion.

Nords 08-27-2007 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinaco (Post 550270)
Those deleted posts could probably be recovered if any normal procedures are in place.

Bold words and I'm a bit skeptical of that assertion after two server changes, but I'll defer to the guys who run the system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinaco (Post 550270)
There are other ways to deal with the potential problem and maintain flexibility... It would just take little planning and work.

I'm no more enthusiastic about keeping the policy than you are about attacking it. I suspect that if "planning" and "work" were all that were involved then a solution would've presented itself by now, but I'm open to ideas that'll solve most our problems and I'm just as subject to policy decisions as you are.

If you have any specific constructive suggestions for a better policy then spit 'em out...

HFWR 08-27-2007 08:20 AM

I generally lean in the direction of anarchy; yes, that often leads to chaos. What's the saying? Give 'em enough rope... :p

How about: Think before you post; i.e. maybe that rant isn't really a good idea. And you can always post a second time to expound/clarify/recant...

Andy R 08-27-2007 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinaco (Post 550270)
I posted this now because I ran into several situations (on recently) where I needed to make a change (clarification) after 2.5 hours. I have had it happen several times.

That is strange, we changed the settings from 15 minutes to 6 hours a couple months back.

Also, please understand that I hear you all and understand the issue. My goal is to develop a solution that will address the abuses that can occur so the limit can be increased. This will be kind of like the way wikis work where old versions of posts are kept in case we need to go back and see if someone is abusing the system.

chinaco 08-27-2007 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy R (Post 550341)
That is strange, we changed the settings from 15 minutes to 6 hours a couple months back.

Also, please understand that I hear you all and understand the issue. My goal is to develop a solution that will address the abuses that can occur so the limit can be increased. This will be kind of like the way wikis work where old versions of posts are kept in case we need to go back and see if someone is abusing the system.

My 2.5 hour comment apparently is incorrect if you set it to 6 hours. But the time-frame is still a little short. I was thinking of allowing a more liberal amount of time... It is about convenience as much as anything.

The Wiki model might work... but the DB could bloat. Plus, the forum software and its DB would need to be designed to handle it. The software may have limited capabilities in that area.

What is your primary concern? It is to save every bit of information that anyone ever enters or is the concern more around someone deleting all of their posts?

If the types of events you are concerned about are few and far between (like someone deleting all of their posts) and the software and DB require major revisions to enable tracking, it might not make sense to build in complex features. Since people require an account, they are limited to their personal entries... not broad deletions. This means the system is not render useless... and you have some time to resolve it... (people can continue to use the system). As long as you are taking regular backups you should be able to recover the data removed.

You would need some knowledge and skill... but you might be able to recover cut-throats posts by loading a backup and using basic SQL, if you know the data structure.

There are tools that help to deal with synchronizing data and the data structure itself for that matter. These are DBA and Software Developer tools.

Most of this Open Source software that uses PHP also uses a MYSQL DB. I would assume this is the case here.

Take a look at this. If you ever have a bad event, you should be able to use a tool like this to recover. But again, this would assume you have some technical skills.


Look at this tool. MySQL GUI Tools, MySQL Monitor and Advisor, MySQL Performance Tuning and Optimization

Webyog FAQ - What is the difference between MySQL server replication and SQLyog synchronization?

Andy R 08-27-2007 06:28 PM

Thanks for the input. A few comments:
  • The software running this site is not open source. It's a commercial forum software product
  • Saving versions of posts will add little to the database size
  • I understand how to restore posts from backups. I have some DBA resources available, would you like to pay their bill each time we have an episode?
  • Thanks for posting the links, I will check them out when I am not at the airport.
As I have stated, I will find a solution. Thanks for your patience (ie let it rest) until I can roll out a solution.

Elspeth 08-27-2007 06:31 PM

Quote:

If the types of events you are concerned about are few and far between (like someone deleting all of their posts) and the software and DB require major revisions to enable tracking, it might not make sense to build in complex features. Since people require an account, they are limited to their personal entries... not broad deletions. This means the system is not render useless... and you have some time to resolve it... (people can continue to use the system). As long as you are taking regular backups you should be able to recover the data removed.
Well, yes, but there are easy ways and hard ways of doing things. I've seen the havoc that can be caused by one person going back and deleting all her posts (all 400 of them) in one forum in a temporary fit of rage/depression/insanity/whatever. The only thing that stopped her doing likewise on our forum was our time limit (which is set a bit longer than the one here because we have a more international membership); she managed to delete three posts, not the 500 or so that she could have deleted. Having the time limit in place was a much easier way of dealing with things than having to reconsititute goodness knows how many threads from a cached database.


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