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-   -   Crude up 4.15 today over 94 fed lowers 1/4 pt, Sorry but trouble looms. (https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/crude-up-4-15-today-over-94-fed-lowers-1-4-pt-sorry-but-trouble-looms-31015.html)

dumpster56 10-31-2007 02:22 PM

Crude up 4.15 today over 94 fed lowers 1/4 pt, Sorry but trouble looms.
 
Business and Financial News - New York Times

I know I know, bearer of bad news the sky is falling stuff, BUT... The dollar is worth you know what oil is purchased in dollars 100+ a barrel is next week at this rate and 5 dollar gasoline is here in feb or sooner. The american public who still own vehicles that get cr@p mileage are going to be the ones that turn the economy into a recession. And even the oil stocks are gonna get creamed. Be careful what you guys wish for in the energy sector!

MasterBlaster 10-31-2007 02:28 PM

The end is near....

Repent !

unclemick 10-31-2007 02:35 PM

Yesterday when I gassed up - I noticed a sticker on the pump - to the effect that any unleaded(not just super unleaded) can have up to 10% ethanol in Missouri(state law) starting in 2008.

Man that's gonna really screw up the price of vodka!

Looks like we'll be singing beer and wine are hear again.

heh heh heh

W2R 10-31-2007 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclemick (Post 573055)
Yesterday when I gassed up - I noticed a sticker on the pump - to the effect that any unleaded(not just super unleaded) can have up to 10% ethanol in Missouri(state law) starting in 2008.

Man that's gonna really screw up the price of vodka!

Looks like we'll be singing beer and wine are hear again.

heh heh heh

Is this going to mess up my Toyota Camry Solara when I move to Missouri? I don't mind high gas prices (since I dont' drive much) but wonder if this would damage the engine or something.

Do you think all the gas will have ethanol added? Or maybe just the cheap-o stuff?

brewer12345 10-31-2007 02:45 PM

Out east all our gasoline seems to have had etoh in it for a while. Doesn't seem to make any difference.

audreyh1 10-31-2007 02:48 PM

Don't worry about the added ethanol stuff. Your engine will be just fine. Some parts of the country already have ethanol in the fuel and you can't avoid it there. We've never noticed any problem no matter which state we fill up in.

I know I'm stuck with $3+ diesel indefinitely, I think I saw the last of the $2.30 to $2.50 range earlier this year. $5? not so sure how soon we'll see that, but I suppose it'll be soon enough.

It is shocking to see oil rise > $4/barrel in one day.

Audrey

audreyh1 10-31-2007 02:50 PM

P.S. I do believe that at some point the equity markets will react negatively to the rising price of oil. Will it take >$100 to do it? Maybe.

Then again, markets are famous for not doing what we expect.

Audrey

ziggy29 10-31-2007 02:51 PM

I think OPEC is pumping all they can but is making other excuses as to why they won't raise production...they know a flat-out admission that peak oil has already occurred will absolutely screw the markets. I think some speculators are sensing this, because the fundamentals don't justify $95 oil or even $80 oil.

That's my theory, anyway.

W2R 10-31-2007 03:06 PM

Thanks, Audrey and Brewer. Whew! That's good to know.

windsurf 10-31-2007 03:15 PM

If the price per barrel just keeps rising, do companies like Exxon do better or worse (stock value)?:duh:

megacorp-firee 10-31-2007 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclemick (Post 573055)
Man that's gonna really screw up the price of vodka!

Looks like we'll be singing beer and wine are hear again.

heh heh heh

? isn't vodka made from potatoes? Should we be loading up on McD's fries now too? :rolleyes:
geez, it's even getting tougher to be unhealthy these days.

unclemick 10-31-2007 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megacorp-firee (Post 573075)
? isn't vodka made from potatoes? Should we be loading up on McD's fries now too? :rolleyes:
geez, it's even getting tougher to be unhealthy these days.

Potatoes, grain or molasses - but I don't think Idaho will become the OPEC of ethanol - speaking potato wise.

heh heh heh - ? Isn't the Brazilian version 85% ethanol from molasses and 15 % gasoline?

Dawg52 10-31-2007 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windsurf (Post 573070)
If the price per barrel just keeps rising, do companies like Exxon do better or worse (stock value)?:duh:

All I know is my oil etf's have been going up in tune with the price per barrel. I took some profits today though. Stuff it under my mattress to pay for the higher prices at the pump. :-\

Spanky 10-31-2007 05:55 PM

I normally avoid stations that supply ethanol, such as Holidays and SuperAmerica.

haha 10-31-2007 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spanky (Post 573125)
I normally avoid stations that supply ethanol, such as Holidays and SuperAmerica.

10% ethanol is mandated at all stations in urban Puget Sound in winter. I believe the same is true in some other areas too. It is sold as an air quality improver.

Ha

dumpster56 10-31-2007 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha (Post 573150)
10% ethanol is mandated at all stations in urban Puget Sound in winter. I believe the same is true in some other areas too. It is sold as an air quality improver.

Ha

Its used instead of MBTE, that stuff was a nasty additive, kinda polluted the water that we drink. Most urban areas in the country use a 10% to 90% gasoline blend. The real problem though with ethanol is it picks up water and cannot be piped to areas in the country like MBTE was. they need to truck the stuff or rail cars but our efed up railroads in this country keep tanker trucks on the road!!

haha 10-31-2007 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy888 (Post 573182)
Its used instead of MBTE, that stuff was a nasty additive, kinda polluted the water that we drink. Most urban areas in the country use a 10% to 90% gasoline blend. The real problem though with ethanol is it picks up water and cannot be piped to areas in the country like MBTE was. they need to truck the stuff or rail cars but our efed up railroads in this country keep tanker trucks on the road!!

Yes, that is an intersting point. When ethanol is used to spare crude oil, I wonder if the additional tanker travel to deliver ethanol when added to diesel usage in cultivation operations might not pretty well use up the potential savings.

Ha

wallygator69 10-31-2007 08:33 PM

not so fast
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Want2retire (Post 573057)
Is this going to mess up my Toyota Camry Solara when I move to Missouri? I don't mind high gas prices (since I dont' drive much) but wonder if this would damage the engine or something.

Do you think all the gas will have ethanol added? Or maybe just the cheap-o stuff?

When you move you have to run your tank to near empty when moving from an MTBE are to an ethanol area. They do interact and form a kind of sludge that can cause clogged fuel injectors and carbs. Lots of factors. But this is the safe approach.

Hundreds of snow mobiles, ATV's and Boats had issues in Maine over the past few years and it appear partially related to the low consumption of gas by most users (ie. you use your boat or snowmobile a half dozen times a year, maybe one tank and top it off with ethanol).

If you have old gas and are going to an ethanol area, you can add "gas stabilizer" available anywhere to help the issue.

If you run thru a tank of gas every 2-4 weeks or so you probably won't have a problem with ethanol at all but gas stabilizer is cheap and worth it IMHO.

Note:

If you end up with Ethanol gas only in your community, you need to add gas stabilizer to ALL your gas cans for lawn mowers, weed wackers etc or you will be screwed. As previous poster noted, ethanol attracts water.

Alos needed if you have a classic car you don't use often. The older Etahnol gas is the more water it absorbs.

GOOGLE should yield a lot of info. I can provide more info if it helps anyone.

W

MooreBonds 10-31-2007 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggy29 (Post 573063)
I think OPEC is pumping all they can but is making other excuses as to why they won't raise production...they know a flat-out admission that peak oil has already occurred will absolutely screw the markets. I think some speculators are sensing this, because the fundamentals don't justify $95 oil or even $80 oil.

That's my theory, anyway.

I've never understood this argument - wouldn't it be in the best interests of OPEC (and other oil rich nations) to say "Ok-we're at peak oil now. Everyone's doomed."

Oil would mushroom to $200/barrel, Saudi Arabia would be the richest nation on earth, and oil nations would be rolling in dough.

What incentive do they have to lie and say "everything's fine, there's plenty of oil to go around"?

dumpster56 10-31-2007 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MooreBonds (Post 573213)
I've never understood this argument - wouldn't it be in the best interests of OPEC (and other oil rich nations) to say "Ok-we're at peak oil now. Everyone's doomed."

Oil would mushroom to $200/barrel, Saudi Arabia would be the richest nation on earth, and oil nations would be rolling in dough.

What incentive do they have to lie and say "everything's fine, there's plenty of oil to go around"?

200 dollar oil says depression around the world and only the rich would be driving. Jobs would be gone, workers would not be able to get to work with 10+ dollar a gallon gasoline. Things would just stop. They may have mucho oil but they are not stupid. Now the traders are well....

In addition you would see fuel cell vehicles and cars running on something other than gasoline so oil would become well obsolete.


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