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-   -   Perhaps we should work longer? (https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/perhaps-we-should-work-longer-33408.html)

JustCurious 02-16-2008 08:57 AM

Perhaps we should work longer?
 
Working one extra year increases retirement income by 9% per year, and working five extra years increases retirement income by 56% per year.

Working longer may also reduce the federal deficit, and improve emotional well being and physical health.

Should People Work Longer, and Will They?

REWahoo 02-16-2008 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustCurious (Post 616547)
Working longer may also ... and improve emotional well being and physical health.

Or it may cause you to go insane and suffer a fatal heart attack.

I chose to work 'shorter' and not take the chance. ;)

Htown Harry 02-16-2008 09:30 AM

Thanks for posting the article, JC.

I read it over, as well as the 2006 paper on which the numbers are based. It's difficult to tell, but it appears that the projected income increase is based on a repackaging of the fact that delaying social security payments increases the annual payout...not exactly cutting edge research.

This quote from one of the author's opinion pieces indicates where he is coming from:

"We often read statistics about when Social Security funds will become inadequate to pay promised benefits. But the current system's obligations aren't confined to giving bigger benefits to more people. Besides that tall order, policymakers will have to deal with the projected decline in revenue growth rates as close to one third of the adult population moves onto Social Security.

We can hold off on the hand-wringing only if we believe that demand for older workers will swell and that many boomers will stay in the workforce. I, for one, think that can happen and that many of the doomsday scenarios for this new labor market are wrong. Yet, the supply of older workers will be crimped as long as public and private employment policies stay rooted in the 1970sor even the 1990s. How fast and well employers and government officials adjust will determine whether demographic changes poised to unfold starting in 2008 bolster or drag down the economy. Among the tallest of orders is to move away from private and public policies that now encourage retirement in middle agea subject for another time."

Walt34 02-16-2008 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo (Post 616550)
I chose to work 'shorter' and not take the chance. ;)

"Hard work never hurt anybody, but why take chances?":D

I'm going back to work to have something to do and buy some toys like a travel trailer. Definitely in the "want" category, not need.

Waiting on a security clearance so this could take a while....

audreyh1 02-16-2008 10:18 AM

Quote:

* Working an additional five years boosts annual retirement income about 56 percent.
* The impact is even larger for people at the lower end of the income distribution.
For people with meager retirement savings, OF COURSE working longer will help considerably!

And, IMO, for MOST PEOPLE - their financial situation will be pretty shaky for retirement. Achieving financial independence is not easy. I predict that many, many people will be working longer in the future as a) they won't have the financial resources not to and b) there will be a strong demand for older workers.

But once you are financially independent with a nice cushy nest egg, exactly WHAT IS THE POINT? The only reason then to continue working is because you really enjoy what you are doing.

I totally do not buy the improve emotional well being and physical health argument. Working was severely detrimental to both in my experience.

Audrey

haha 02-16-2008 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 (Post 616597)
But once you are financially independent with a nice cushy nest egg, exactly WHAT IS THE POINT? The only reason then to continue working is because you really enjoy what you are doing.

Reading the pdf strongly suggests that for men anyway, the ability to work and availability of jobs for them is the key variable, rather than eagerness to retire.

Highest work rates are for white men, with 4+ years of college, and in good health. Makes sense, not many could be piano movers at age 67, but dermatologist or lawyer should be a piece of cake.

Ha

dmpi 02-16-2008 12:36 PM

If the stock markey goes to pot in the next 6 years my backup plan is to just keep working. Other than that, I'm out of here. However, I must confess there is a small part of me that doesn't want to leave any money on the table. Nor, do I want to die working.

maddythebeagle 02-16-2008 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 (Post 616597)

I totally do not buy the improve emotional well being and physical health argument. Working was severely detrimental to both in my experience.

Audrey

I have worked with several folks that tried to have their emotional needs met at work....ironically, that might be why so many here are so interested in FIRE ;)

barbarus 02-16-2008 01:30 PM

Going forward, we will see many of these "vital seniors who want to continue w*rking" articles. However, for every one pathetic soul that lives a life so barren that they must fill their time up with empl*yment, there coexist dozens of enlightened citizens the folly of such a philosophy.

These articles are part of an evil cabal, including the government, business and the press. They are conspiring to force people to continue slaving until they drop. Geezers are a source of somewhat enfebled, but cheap and reliable labor. Thier exploytation is like unto low hangiging fruits to be harvested by greedy commerce.

Society is being softened up to the concept of perpetual lab*r. Learn to kiss the boot that will soon be kicking you.https://www.early-retirement.org/foru...coolsmiley.gif

barbarus 02-16-2008 01:34 PM

And I've got to stop trusting the ERF spell checker as well and type more carefully.

Dawg52 02-16-2008 01:39 PM

This subject always comes up for early retirees. When someone asks 'what do you do all day or do you really enjoy early retirement?'..... I just say I'm doing what I do best. Nothing. Some laugh and some don't know how to respond. ;D

No doubt, working longer will increase one's retirement income. But as far as emotional well being is concerned, that certainly is not the case for all. I was totally burned out with my job. Enjoyed many I worked with, but did not enjoy the work. I do enjoy my life now. Chasing the old golf ball around. :)

Marquette 02-16-2008 01:41 PM

we're going to have to build some more wal-marts for all of those greeters.

UncleHoney 02-16-2008 02:52 PM

I fully support the basic premise of the report. I'm in full agreement that all suckers workers should stay on the job till they drop.

Just put in a good hard day and pay those taxes and help keep SS afloat. :D

Notmuchlonger 02-16-2008 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleHoney (Post 616717)
I fully support the basic premise of the report. I'm in full agreement that all suckers workers should stay on the job till they drop.

Just put in a good hard day and pay those taxes and help keep SS afloat. :D


Couldn't have wrote it better :)

Midpack 02-16-2008 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 (Post 616597)
But once you are financially independent with a nice cushy nest egg, exactly WHAT IS THE POINT? The only reason then to continue working is because you really enjoy what you are doing.

Despite reaching FI, some of us need a purpose and some structure. Chasing around a golf ball, watching 8 hours of TV and/or drinking excessively will get old pretty quickly for some of us. But I will go from a good paying job that I'm tired of to a job that makes me want to jump out of bed in the morning and pays whatever one day. And if/when that job becomes a drag, I'll go on to whatever appeals to me then. At least one person's view of FI, that I suspect works for a portion of the ER crowd FWIW. More power to anyone who wants 100% leisure when they reach FI, but it's not appealing to everyone...

growing_older 02-16-2008 03:30 PM

I think this article (and most others) miss nuances that are critically important. I like the kind of work I do. I like (most of) the people I work with. In some companies, the corporate environment has been acceptable or even positive, but in most the day to day corporate bs is hugely negative. As a cooperative social endeavor, work can be competitive in a positive or negative way and as a hierarchy, those with power can wield it in a positive or negative way. Lumping all these factors together to make generaiizations about work for seniors or worker satisfaction with jobs misses most of the real story.

Personally, I would happily continue to do the work I do for many years, yet I am antsy to escape a stifling corporate environment in which I do it as soon as possible. Do I count as wanting to work well into retirement years (I do) or do I count as wanting to retire early (I do). If we cannot separate and understand these different aspects of the issue, then I think any conclusions are suspect and could be misleading for any policy makers trying to address the issues.

I also note in the study that a very large percentage of older workers still working were in fact self-employed. When the study makes generalizations about the social aspect of work for older folks, this fact doesn't seem to have been considered at all.

audreyh1 02-16-2008 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack (Post 616736)
Despite reaching FI, some of us need a purpose and some structure. Chasing around a golf ball, watching 8 hours of TV and/or drinking excessively will get old pretty quickly for some of us.

Retirement is what you make it.

Many people assume that retirement is the completely brain-dead passive frittering away of personal time as described above. But there is no reason that retirement has to be that way at all. Just because you aren't working doesn't mean you have to waste your life (although that is everyone's personal choice).

You don't need a job to create purpose and structure in your life. For some reason many, many people swallow that premise hook line and sinker. It's just part of our cultural brainwashing and has no logical basis whatsoever.

For many of us, retirement gives us a chance to finally do all the fun, rewarding, exciting, purposeful and intellectually stimulating things that we couldn't do when our precious time and creative energies were shackled to earning a living.

Audrey

Spanky 02-16-2008 04:01 PM

Quote:

Working longer may also improve emotional well-being and physical health.
  • Because work is crucial to many workers’ personal identities, retirement can lead to a partial loss of identity, especially for those who retire abruptly.

I feel sorry for those who identify themselves by occupation (or work).
Quote:

Work promotes social integration and social support.
I am not sure if I can depend on emotional support from co-workers.
Quote:

Staying active may promote physical health.
I do not equate sitting in a conference room discussing non-valued issues and starring at a monitor is active and good for my health.

Khan 02-16-2008 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 (Post 616597)
For people with meager retirement savings, OF COURSE working longer will help considerably!

And, IMO, for MOST PEOPLE - their financial situation will be pretty shaky for retirement. Achieving financial independence is not easy. I predict that many, many people will be working longer in the future as a) they won't have the financial resources not to and b) there will be a strong demand for older workers.

But once you are financially independent with a nice cushy nest egg, exactly WHAT IS THE POINT? The only reason then to continue working is because you really enjoy what you are doing.

I totally do not buy the improve emotional well being and physical health argument. Working was severely detrimental to both in my experience.

Audrey

Definitely!:duh:

Khan 02-16-2008 04:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
Staying active may promote physical health.
I do not equate sitting in a conference room discussing non-valued issues and starring at a monitor is active and good for my health.
Since retiring, I have lost much weight (fat) and my blood pressure is down to human.

The computer is on all day, but I leave it to exercise/walk/garden/cook...

toofrugalformycat 02-16-2008 04:28 PM

If my work had been more rewarding (economically, emotionally, or societally), and not so hard on my health, and I had no goals outside my office, then I should have continued working.
It depends on the person and the job.

Khan 02-16-2008 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toofrugalformycat (Post 616776)
If my work had been more rewarding (economically, emotionally, or societally), and not so hard on my health, and I had no goals outside my office, then I should have continued working.
It depends on the person and the job.

The money was nice. The job wasn't too bad; then they made me a manager.:(

haha 02-16-2008 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack (Post 616736)
Despite reaching FI, some of us need a purpose and some structure. Chasing around a golf ball, watching 8 hours of TV and/or drinking excessively will get old pretty quickly for some of us..

Which one of these things doesn't belong with the other two?

I would say golf, which is an extremely difficult and endlessly fascinating game which IMO is in every way different from drinking too much or watching TV.

If I had kept it up when I was young instead of quitting, I'd likely be living a different life now.

Ha

Khan 02-16-2008 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack (Post 616736)
Despite reaching FI, some of us need a purpose and some structure. Chasing around a golf ball, watching 8 hours of TV and/or drinking excessively will get old pretty quickly for some of us.

You don't have to do any of the above. You can set up your own structure to whatever degree you want.

Quote:

...More power to anyone who wants 100% leisure when they reach FI, but it's not appealing to everyone...
100% leisure?

Who does your shopping, cooking, laundry, cleaning, gardening, mowing...

What do you think folks do all day?

Dawg52 02-16-2008 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack (Post 616736)
More power to anyone who wants 100% leisure when they reach FI, but it's not appealing to everyone...

Thats true. To each their own. :)

CyclingInvestor 02-16-2008 07:48 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack (Post 616736)
Despite reaching FI, some of us need a purpose and some structure. Chasing around a golf ball, watching 8 hours of TV and/or drinking excessively will get old pretty quickly for some of us.

That does sound kind of boring. However, spending more time with your dogs (or kids), travelling
to new places, hiking in new mountains, cycling in new regions is a definite improvement over 10
hours / day of commuting and working.

Zoocat 02-16-2008 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyclingInvestor (Post 616823)
That does sound kind of boring. However, spending more time with your dogs (or kids), travelling
to new places, hiking in new mountains, cycling in new regions is a definite improvement over 10
hours / day of commuting and working.


Definitely, although I have to say that in my observation most people live the same kinds of lives in retirement that they lived while working. For example, if spending time with your family was really important to you, then you did that while working, as much as you could. If you enjoyed cycling, hiking, physical activites outdoors then you tried to do so while you were working.

If you had difficulty spending time alone or dealing with unstructured time and had to always be busy, then you will likely still have the same problem in retirement. Changing to a completely new lifestyle doesn't often happen in retirement. And, more important, values don't change that much either.

youbet 02-16-2008 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack (Post 616736)
drinking excessively will get old pretty quickly for some of us.

Really? Now, I don't get that........ :confused:

Marquette 02-16-2008 08:35 PM

I've got thousands of dollars of camera equipment that needs to get used more. I don't see how I could possibly have time to take up golf or drinking if I'm too busy running away from bears in the woods.

megacorp-firee 02-16-2008 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustCurious (Post 616547)
Working one extra year increases retirement income by 9% per year, and working five extra years increases retirement income by 56% per year.

Working longer may also reduce the federal deficit, and improve emotional well being and physical health.

Should People Work Longer, and Will They?

My BS meter is tilting!
:rolleyes: Propaganda from the other side.
This seems to be one of those 'feel good' articles that rationalizes for the minions that can't retire because of their spendthrift habits that it is ok to work longer.
The danger is that those of us on this board that are on the fence will actually buy into this drival. Plan and implement, I say.

They should GET THEIR OWN FORUM! They can call it WUUD (Work Until U Die) Forum. >:D
They can give each other tips on how to suffer through their bad bosses, stress .... etc.

growing_older 02-16-2008 09:22 PM

I'm confused by the tinfoil hat comments. Aren't tinfoil hats supposed to prevent aliens from reading your thoughts? Was there some other connotation about whether those thoughts reflect accepted tenets? Please explain.

https://fascistpsychlaws.files.wordpr...infoil_hat.jpg

megacorp-firee 02-16-2008 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by growing_older (Post 616875)
I'm confused by the tinfoil hat comments. Aren't tinfoil hats supposed to prevent aliens from reading your thoughts? Was there some other connotation about whether those thoughts reflect accepted tenets? Please explain.

Could it be that tin hats connote a certain amount of paranoia (like the aliens are reading my thoughts?') and that is what posters are referring to when they cite 'tin hatters'?

growing_older 02-16-2008 10:00 PM

I guess that makes a kind of sense. I've never heard the expression used that way elsewhere. Luckily, I had my own tinfoil hat off, so I learned something new.

In an old house I used to own, the previous owners told me they had added "insulation" to the attic, but when I looked I found what they had really done was put a layer of aluminum foil between the joists and under the floor. I always wondered what they were insulating.

Spanky 02-16-2008 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khan (Post 616781)
The money was nice. The job wasn't too bad; then they made me a manager.:(

It's ironic that most of the younger engineers that I meet are aspired to be managers. They say the technical track is so slow to move up.

UncleHoney 02-16-2008 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by growing_older (Post 616875)
I'm confused by the tinfoil hat comments. Aren't tinfoil hats supposed to prevent aliens from reading your thoughts? Was there some other connotation about whether those thoughts reflect accepted tenets? Please explain.

https://fascistpsychlaws.files.wordpr...infoil_hat.jpg

Ladies, if I'm elected president...........The next time I catch that !#%&* messing around I going to have his cigar shortened to about this long.

megacorp-firee 02-16-2008 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toofrugalformycat (Post 616776)
If my work had been more rewarding (economically, emotionally, or societally), and not so hard on my health, and I had no goals outside my office, then I should have continued working.
It depends on the person and the job.

hmmmm looks like we hijacked this thread...
IMO I FI does not necessarily mean you have to RE. It just means you can RE if you want to. Most on this board profess to 'want to'. However, I do see a lot of apprehension, IMO due to FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt). This forum has been instrumental in helping me (and I REALLY didn't need much) nudge over the line.

My aha moment came when I was still w*rking and took one of my 1st 3 week vacations. I had so many things I wanted to see, do, experience, ...etc. that I found my w*rk getting in the way of life.

But for others who are really enjoying their w*rk then have at it. No one says you HAVE to RE. In my eperience, I have found 2 distinct types that want to continue to be wage slaves (sorry ... my cynical editorial view). The 1st are generally Drs and Dentists and PhD's of all sorts (business professionals as well as educators) ... those who have devoted the 1st 30-35 years of their lives to learning. The 2nd are those who don't seem to have an exit plan. In otherwords, they haven't a clue as to what they would do ... other than drink, play golf, watch HBO ...
IMO, the 2nd group should do some soul searching ... if they really don't have anything to drive them in their RE, then don't do it.
i.e. NO Plan = Don't RE

I know that this is too simplistic, ... but I'm retired now ... and that's all the deep thought I wish to devote to this right now (one of the beauties of retirement ... I get to do what I want to). Later, ... I have to go and meet a friend for lunch. ;D

megacorp-firee 02-16-2008 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spanky (Post 616904)
It's ironic that most of the younger engineers that I meet are aspired to be managers. They say the technical track is so slow to move up.

I think that they would also like their chance at calling the shots. But it's sad but true, ... most places you have to get on the managerial track to get ahead.

CyclingInvestor 02-16-2008 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megacorp-firee (Post 616912)
I think that they would also like their chance at calling the shots. But it's sad but true, ... most places you have to get on the managerial track to get ahead.

You can still do OK on the technical track. I remained a bottom level peon progammer employee my
entire 27 year career in aerospace and finance. I retired in 2006 at 48 making $135k, more than many
of my friends in low to middle management, althoug less than a couple in middle management and
marketing, while working a consistent 40 hours / week.

TargaDave 02-17-2008 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack (Post 616736)
Despite reaching FI, some of us need a purpose and some structure. Chasing around a golf ball, watching 8 hours of TV and/or drinking excessively will get old pretty quickly for some of us. But I will go from a good paying job that I'm tired of to a job that makes me want to jump out of bed in the morning and pays whatever one day. And if/when that job becomes a drag, I'll go on to whatever appeals to me then. At least one person's view of FI, that I suspect works for a portion of the ER crowd FWIW. More power to anyone who wants 100% leisure when they reach FI, but it's not appealing to everyone...

Midpack, one thing you'll learn about this board, the dominant posters here might vary over time but they are clearly more anti work-for-pay biased (just the nature of the beast). The semi-ER or FI types that show up here fequently leave or just fade more in the background after getting overwhelmed a few times. Just my take on things.

Don't worry you're not alone. Speaking of which, I did a fun little painting gig as a little semi-ER test last month, took 7 days and paid $4,500 after expenses. It was an absolute blast and didn't crimp the rest of my life at all. Should mention I've been self employed much of my career so maybe I just see things a little differently.

Nords 02-17-2008 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleHoney (Post 616717)
I fully support the basic premise of the report. I'm in full agreement that all suckers workers should stay on the job till they drop.
Just put in a good hard day and pay those taxes and help keep SS afloat. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by megacorp-firee (Post 616866)
My BS meter is tilting!
:rolleyes: Propaganda from the other side.
This seems to be one of those 'feel good' articles that rationalizes for the minions that can't retire because of their spendthrift habits that it is ok to work longer.
The danger is that those of us on this board that are on the fence will actually buy into this drival. Plan and implement, I say.
They should GET THEIR OWN FORUM! They can call it WUUD (Work Until U Die) Forum. >:D
They can give each other tips on how to suffer through their bad bosses, stress .... etc.

That's usually the first set of thoughts that roll through my head, too.

The next thing I'd like to do is set these studies' authors up with a year of "95%" success income and let them do whatever they want. 365 days later I'll call them up, tell them that they need to go back to work for a few more years to pad the nest egg, and see what their response may be...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack (Post 616736)
Despite reaching FI, some of us need a purpose and some structure. Chasing around a golf ball, watching 8 hours of TV and/or drinking excessively will get old pretty quickly for some of us. But I will go from a good paying job that I'm tired of to a job that makes me want to jump out of bed in the morning and pays whatever one day. And if/when that job becomes a drag, I'll go on to whatever appeals to me then. At least one person's view of FI, that I suspect works for a portion of the ER crowd FWIW. More power to anyone who wants 100% leisure when they reach FI, but it's not appealing to everyone...

A couple of thoughts while I'm waiting for the 800mg of ibuprofen to kick in after my day of "100% leisure":
- If you're the kind of person who wants to jump out of bed in the morning and go to work, then perhaps you're a self-starter with creativity & motivation. If that's the case, do you ever wonder what it would be like to be responsible for your own entertainment, instead of becoming responsible for yet another business commitment?
- Could you find things that you'd rather be doing instead of depending on the office environment for your stimulation, let alone having a supervisor/boss?
- Have you ever tried to design your ideal life without chaining yourself to a cubicle or a corner office? What's your thought on books like Ernie Zelinski's "How to Retire Happy, Wild, & Free" or the new "What Color Is Your Parachute For Retirement"?

I'm only asking because this weekend marks the sixth year since I started my terminal leave, and I can't imagine going back to the typical office environment. Having been in both situations, I think that some people stick with the workplace because they don't have to work as hard as they'd have to work if they were their own taskmasters. I know that some days I have nobody to blame but myself for the things I've tried to do...

Spanky 02-17-2008 12:11 AM

Quote:

You can still do OK on the technical track.
Our mega-corp has a dual ladder track also. However, the highest level is equivalent to a director. In order to get to that level, one must have at least 15 years of experience in a specific domain, influential and leadership skills.

megacorp-firee 02-17-2008 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyclingInvestor (Post 616922)
You can still do OK on the technical track. I remained a bottom level peon progammer employee my
entire 27 year career in aerospace and finance. I retired in 2006 at 48 making $135k, more than many
of my friends in low to middle management, althoug less than a couple in middle management and
marketing, while working a consistent 40 hours / week.

What do you think a manager with the same amount of time and experience was making at your firm? ;D ... or your manager?

Spanky 02-17-2008 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megacorp-firee (Post 616939)
What do you think a manager with the same amount of time and experience was making at your firm? ;D ... or your manager?

Good point - my manager makes at least $150K + bonus + stock options.

megacorp-firee 02-17-2008 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords (Post 616929)
I'm only asking because this weekend marks the sixth year since I started my terminal leave, and I can't imagine going back to the typical office environment. Having been in both situations, I think that some people stick with the workplace because they don't have to work as hard as they'd have to work if they were their own taskmasters. I know that some days I have nobody to blame but myself for the things I've tried to do...

Hey Nords, congrats on your 6th...
I am so psych'ed and hearing this encourages me even more. It's been great and getting better every day.

Yep, I take personal responsibility for my own happiness... and I am doing a hellava great job so far. I have been able to transfer my 110% efforts from being a wage slave to as you put it 'terminal leave'. Oh I have my off days ... when it is raining outside and I don't feel like getting out of bed ... I just sleep in for another hour ... and then figure out ... ;D

megacorp-firee 02-17-2008 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spanky (Post 616942)
Good point - my manager makes at least $150K + bonus + stock options.

but you are correct, when I was a brand new 1st line manager, I had most of my team making more than me ... not by much and not for long, but hey, most had over 20 years in and I had 4.

CyclingInvestor 02-17-2008 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megacorp-firee (Post 616939)
What do you think a manager with the same amount of time and experience was making at your firm? ;D ... or your manager?

My manager was about my age, and made a bit more base salary, with a bigger bonus.
He worked 10-12 hours / day, and almost all of it was in meetings. He had a wife
and kids, and a house with a big mortgage (I had none of those). He was shocked
that I was able to retire.

I suspect we each thought we had the better deal.

megacorp-firee 02-17-2008 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyclingInvestor (Post 616950)
My manager was about my age, and made a bit more base salary, with a bigger bonus.
He worked 10-12 hours / day, and almost all of it was in meetings. He had a wife
and kids, and a house with a big mortgage (I had none of those). He was shocked
that I was able to retire.

I suspect we each thought we had the better deal.

Yep... proof positive that FIRE is not how much you make, but how much you keep.
When I was w*rking (remarkable that I can still remember :rolleyes:), the VP I reported to had a big house, a 7 series BMmer, a consumer habit that would appall FIRE forum members (3-4 starbucks, 4-6 bottled waters, a day, ... copious drinks (hey she was normal in this respect ;D) after hours (meaning 10 or 11 at night). Her DH also had a successful career going for him. However, she was amazed that I was able to FIRE when I did. I love happy endings ... don't you? :smitten:

chinaco 02-17-2008 04:03 AM

Can't argue with any of the positions listed.


There will be a large number of people financially unprepared for retirement. It would be good if they understood that before they tried to hang up their job.

rs0460a 02-17-2008 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustCurious (Post 616547)
Working one extra year increases retirement income by 9% per year, and working five extra years increases retirement income by 56% per year.

Working longer may also reduce the federal deficit, and improve emotional well being and physical health.

Should People Work Longer, and Will They?

And here's some folks that have no option other than to continue to wo*k:

Retirement? What retirement? For some, work really isn't ever done -- themorningcall.com

Midpack 02-17-2008 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 (Post 616597)
But once you are financially independent with a nice cushy nest egg, exactly WHAT IS THE POINT? The only reason then to continue working is because you really enjoy what you are doing.

I totally do not buy the improve emotional well being and physical health argument. Working was severely detrimental to both in my experience.

Audrey

OK folks, my post was simply another POV to Audrey's statement (above). Maybe I read it with a bias in context, she and several subsequent posters seemed to suggest that work couldn't be fulfilling or that there's something wrong with those who think organized work can be a rewarding part of life.

I don't doubt the overwhelming majority of people (myself included for now) do not enjoy their jobs, but a lucky few do and others can find work they enjoy and would prefer or golf, TV and/or excessive drinking. For those who didn't like those activities they are simply stereotypical illustrations of what retirees used to move to - you're welcome to choose others. But I have known retirees who thought they were going to play golf every day and eventually got bored with it (my Dad for one), or who watched way too much TV (my Mother-in-law; one of you mentioned Zelinksi who repeatedly mentioned the evils of too much TV) and unfortunately who drank too much in retirement (several whose drinking habits changed measurably when they retired and who will remain nameless). I never said all three went together, ie and/or.

And I also said if you can stay engaged with 100% leisure activities - then that works for you, "more power to you." Just that for some of us, contributing to society through work, maybe part time or voluntarily, adds meaning to our lives overall. We'll definitely increase our leisure activities. That simple...

audreyh1 02-17-2008 09:32 AM

Midpack, you seem to be stuck on the false idea that retirement means meaningless activities. I suppose if that's the only thing you witnessed in life, then you've had some unfortunate role models. I think many, many people on this board are totally engaged in healthy, meaningful leisure activities. Some of them are even devoted to a sporting activity (shock). What may end up being a boring passive recreative activity for one person, may end up being an incredibly challenging and stimulating activity for another. This is very much a personal thing.

Sometimes someone needs to quit work for a while to discover that there is indeed, life after work. That there is a whole universe of meaningful activities and purposes out there not defined by work, and that marching to someone else's drum is not required to find purpose in life.

And obviously, from my statement that you quoted above, I said that if someone enjoys working then they should continue to do so. Did my statement in any way indicate something was wrong with such a person? I don't think so. I know too many people who thrive in their careers. There is nothing wrong with that.

As for the "one should not retire early, but rather work or volunteer for some organization because that's the only way to truly contribute to society", you should see the huge thread that exploded on that theme!!!! Nothing wrong with choosing that path, it's just not the only meaningful one.

Audrey

Midpack 02-17-2008 09:47 AM

Wow...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 (Post 617022)
As for the "one should not retire early, but rather work or volunteer for some organization because that's the only way to truly contribute to society" Audrey

Let's just agree to disagree. I was simply suggesting that work is not a 'meaningless activity' for some people - that's it. Fascinating what you attribute to me as a quote when anyone can see for themselves that what I said was markedly different:

Quote:

What I did post: "Just that for some of us, contributing to society through work, maybe part time or voluntarily, adds meaning to our lives overall. We'll definitely increase our leisure activities. That simple..."

audreyh1 02-17-2008 11:20 AM

FWIW I wasn't quoting you, Midpack. I was referring to the theme of a controversial thread from a few months ago. And I never claimed that work was a meaningless activity for everyone. Just as retirement and leisure time is not a meaningless activity for everyone.

Audrey

Dog 02-17-2008 02:06 PM

I'm sorry, but I'm at the point where work is getting in the way of me living the rest of my life. Five years ago I wouldn't have ever thought I could feel that way (former workaholic). Losing friends, family and loved ones has a way of changing one's perspective. Life is short and has way too much to offer - my bucket list is long and varied. Just need to tie up some financial loose ends - and then I'm on to the next chapter.

BunsGettingFirm 02-17-2008 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddythebeagle (Post 616681)
I have worked with several folks that tried to have their emotional needs met at work....ironically, that might be why so many here are so interested in FIRE ;)

Do you mean the ones who threw temper tantrums or the type who went around being haters or the ones who talked more than they contributed or the ones who were nice but incompetent?

Spanky 02-17-2008 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BunsGettingFirm (Post 617226)
Do you mean the ones who threw temper tantrums or the type who went around being haters or the ones who talked more than they contributed or the ones who were nice but incompetent?

My vote: those who have contributed significantly (the work horse) but never received the recognition or the reward for their contributions because they do not make themselves visible or promote their work.


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