Early Retirement & Financial Independence Community

Early Retirement & Financial Independence Community (https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/)
-   FIRE and Money (https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/)
-   -   Hillary and Bill (https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/hillary-and-bill-34074.html)

Texas Proud 03-16-2008 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by talltrees (Post 629450)
Texas,

I actually agree with you on every point, except one. We haven't had a president worthy of the name since Eisenhower. And Truman before him. They were giants compared to the last 40 odd years.

And by today's standards, Ike would be considered a "liberal"!!!!

Reagan was one of the biggest con jobs of the 20th century. He started the dismantling process that, arguably, has led to the financial meltdown we see today.

Peace.

As I said... I don't really know prior to JFK, but you have to put FDR in your list... which would be three presidents in a row that were pretty good...

Wish I could say the same going forward...


One thing that surprised me is how many times the office of the Vice President was VACANT!!! Take a look....

List of Presidents of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mike10 03-16-2008 07:49 AM

It is amusing to read the comments on previous presidents. No doubt some have been better than others but history will be the judge of their accomplishments. As for President Clinton his popularity was headed south just two years into his first term, remember the Republican revolution of 1994? So how did President Clinton rebound? He gave the American people what they wanted. My complaint with President Clinton is he had no core convictions. Every decision seemed to be preceded by a poll or focus group. Smart politically but as I said previously history will be the judge if this was the best for the country in the long run. President Clinton came across as everyones beer drinking buddy. Mrs Clinton is not President Bill Clinton. I believe she does have core convictions and while there is a debate whether her policies will be good or bad for the country we should all be aware that her Presidency will not be Bill Clinton's third term.

ziggy29 03-16-2008 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinaco (Post 629522)
Example of a conservative please... so I have a frame of reference. Conservative in what context.

I am very conservative on some issues and a lib on others. :)

I measure true, classical "conservatism" with someone like Barry Goldwater as the measuring stick.

The neocons who have hijacked the GOP in recent years are anything *but* conservative in many ways.

dex 03-16-2008 08:35 AM

Instead of Billery should it be Hillbilly? Just a thought.

youbet 03-16-2008 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dex (Post 629584)
Instead of Billery should it be Hillbilly? Just a thought.

Well, Bill is already commonly referred to as "Bubba" because of certain, well known personality traits. But why go into regional, racial, cultural stereotypes? "Billery" relates to the combination of Bill and Hillary, a combination Hillary has chosen to be an important part of her campaign as she claims to have received full presidential experience from being first lady. "Hillbilly" is just a slam at a group of people.

Bad idea Dex.

youbet 03-16-2008 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike10 (Post 629567)
we should all be aware that her Presidency will not be Bill Clinton's third term.

Hmmmmmm....... I haven't made up my mind between the three contenders yet. But, I'm definitely not as sure of your position regarding Hillary's independence from Bill as you are!

chinaco 03-16-2008 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbet (Post 629772)
Hmmmmmm....... I haven't made up my mind between the three contenders yet. But, I'm definitely not as sure of your position regarding Hillary's independence from Bill as you are!

Bill will influence Hill.

Bill Clinton is a smart man. No one (even his enemies) denies it.

He is just a bit of a disappointment with his personal indiscretions.

boont 03-16-2008 03:02 PM

Great Men
 
I'm reading your comments but I don't believe them. To pick just one...

"He (Clinton)is just a bit of a disappointment with his personal indiscretions"

You might just as well say, "I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you that there is gambling going on in Casablanca."

Well, if that is your criteria, then you have to write off almost all great men in history. Especially, great politicians. These include Churchill, Jefferson, JFK, Martin Luther King, Eisenhower, Roosevelt, Washington the list goes on and on.

This is not grammar school. You have to be a man of the world.

You guys need to grow up, turn off talk radio, and read your history. As Truman said, "The only thing new in the world is the history you forgot."

b.

youbet 03-16-2008 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinaco (Post 629774)
Bill will influence Hill. Absolutely.

Bill Clinton is a smart man. No one (even his enemies) denies it. Absolutely. Not to break my arm patting my own back, but I've noticed that most everyone who was able to do me wrong in life was pretty smart.

He is just a bit of a disappointment with his personal indiscretions. And a few other areas. His sexual exploits don't really bother me other than the situations where it's thought he used power and position to inappropriately influence or coerce the woman.

I'm not a Clinton (Bill) hater. I just haven't accepted him as my personal savior nor do I expect him to be able to grant eternal life to his chosen people as some do.

chinaco 03-16-2008 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boont (Post 629788)
I'm reading your comments but I don't believe them. To pick just one...

"He (Clinton)is just a bit of a disappointment with his personal indiscretions"

You might just as well say, "I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you that there is gambling going on in Casablanca."

Well, if that is your criteria, then you have to write off almost all great men in history. Especially, great politicians. These include Churchill, Jefferson, JFK, Martin Luther King, Eisenhower, Roosevelt, Washington the list goes on and on.

This is not grammar school. You have to be a man of the world.

You guys need to grow up, turn off talk radio, and read your history. As Truman said, "The only thing new in the world is the history you forgot."

b.

Huh! :confused:

How did that statement write him off?

I am not going to defend Bill Clinton for his antics. He did some things that even his supporters did not like... people close to him.

No one here is naive. But, we do not have to brush it off or gloss over it.

Yes many accomplished people have had flaws. It would have been better for him if he would have controlled his urges a little. It would have been better for him, his family, and the rest of us who had to endure the whole mess.

youbet 03-16-2008 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinaco (Post 629792)
Huh! :confused:

It would have been better for him if he would have controlled his urges a little. It would have been better for him, his family, and the rest of us who had to endure the whole mess.

It would have been better for him, if he couldn't control his urges, to only chase women who agreed to be chased. The Monica thing was nothing..... It's the charges he had to defend himself of implicating he used power and influence and situational coercion to try to "force the issue."

As stated above, I'm certainly not a Bill Clinton hater. And the rich/influential folks (politicians included) who've used whores, "special friends", mistresses or whatever to satisfy their needs for extramartial sex generally don't draw my ire.......unless they're hypocrites about it. But I just have this uneasy feeling that there is something to the smoking guns relating to Bill using force and coercion in one or more of his sexual exploits. He's a smart guy and avoided jail but did pay some hefty cash settlements to wiggle out of some of the situations. Tacky...... very tacky.

boont 03-16-2008 04:15 PM

Arkansas Project
 
"I just have this uneasy feeling..."

Do you remember the "Arkansas Project"? This will refresh your memory... (Wikipedia)

"David Brock, who reported many of the Clinton scandals, described himself as a Republican "hitman" who "soon became a lead figure in the drive to" get Clinton. Writing for the American Spectator, he brought the stories of alleged sexual misbehavior by Bill and Hillary Clinton into the public notice in late 1993.[3] The Pacific Research Institute funded further attempts to discredit the Clintons. The "Arkansas Project" name that later became famous was conceived as a joke; the actual name within the Spectator and between the Spectator and Scaife foundations was the "Editorial Improvement Project."

"Writer David Brock also went after the Clintons. Brock was the first journalist who published the sexual allegations by Paula Jones, which conflicted with later claims.[14] The Troopergate investigation later led Jones to sue Clinton, successfully obtaining an out-of-court settlement in the hundreds of thousands. Brock continued his conspiracy theorizing until a 1997 Esquire article titled "I Was a Conservative Hit Man" in which he recanted some of his claims. In 1998 he went further and personally apologized to Clinton. Brock was let go from the Spectator and published his 2002 book Blinded by the Right: The Conscience of an Ex-Conservative."[14]

Perhaps this famous smear campaign is still making you uneasy. Even after the lead guy, Brock, "personally apologized to Clinton" the campaign continues.

I just know you are going to feel betrayed when you start hearing about Obama girfriends.

Pleeeze.

boont

dex 03-16-2008 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbet (Post 629770)
Well, Bill is already commonly referred to as "Bubba" because of certain, well known personality traits. But why go into regional, racial, cultural stereotypes? "Billery" relates to the combination of Bill and Hillary, a combination Hillary has chosen to be an important part of her campaign as she claims to have received full presidential experience from being first lady. "Hillbilly" is just a slam at a group of people.

Bad idea Dex.

It is more that Hillary should get top billing. Billery sounds as if Bill is leading. Hillbilly give Hillary top billing.

Allegany 03-16-2008 04:38 PM

Billary and Health Care
 
While Billary seems to be promising everyone in the country health care of one form or another, in New York State an individual can still not purchase an HSA and HDHP as it is against the law. Seems she and Schumer feel that these plans, which have the potential to slash health care costs in the state, are only tax deductions for the rich. Many people on this forum in other states have these plans and appear to be happy with their performance. In New York, Billary and Schumer refuse to talk to Sheldon Silver, head of the State Assembly, to move this forward. Maybe if the health insurance was more affordable we wouldn't have so many people who aren't covered. I don't want it free, because nothing is free, but offering catastrophic coverage, HSA's and High Deductible Health Plans seems like a logical step except if you live in the state of Billary and Schumer.

youbet 03-16-2008 04:42 PM

boont....

I feel any use of coercion, force or threatening influence to obtain sex from a woman is wrong. You can defend your personal savior Bill any way you like, but I still see a smoking gun(s) and I think he went over the line in regard to his capers with the ladies. Otherwise, I have no problem with Bill. He's no more of a villian than the other politicians.......

bpp3 03-16-2008 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dex (Post 629827)
It is more that Hillary should get top billing. Billery sounds as if Bill is leading. Hillbilly give Hillary top billing.

Hilliam?

youbet 03-16-2008 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpp3 (Post 629848)
Hilliam?

Hey! I like that one! Gives Hillary top billing as per Dex, yet avoids the "Hillbilly" stereotype which slurs a set of people.

boont 03-16-2008 05:47 PM

Remarks
 
"...any use of coercion, force or threatening influence to obtain sex..."

You know as well as I that no cases ever stood up after eight years of investigations with the exception of the Monica one, which had no accusations of force or anything else from her.

Don't just make stuff up.

Also, hold the, "personal savior" line and other
wry remarks, they are rude coercions in their own right.

boont

Arc 03-16-2008 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boont (Post 629865)
"...any use of coercion, force or threatening influence to obtain sex..."

You know as well as I that no cases ever stood up after eight years of investigations with the exception of the Monica one, which had no accusations of force or anything else from her.

Don't just make stuff up.

Also, hold the, "personal savior" line and other
wry remarks, they are rude coercions in their own right.

boont

AN OPEN LETTER TO HILLARY CLINTON BY JUANITA BROADDRICK

No one but Juanita and Bill (and maybe Hilliam) know for sure - though tough to put in the "make stuff up" category.

boont 03-16-2008 07:42 PM

Broaddrick
 
An open letter to Arc,

It's funny how you neglect to mention what Kenneth Starrs' investigation about this, at the time, two decade old accusation came to.

Maybe you think that Star's investigation was not long enough or thorough enough, but "FBI agents working for the Office of Independent Council eventually deemed evidence concerning Broaddrick's terrible accusation to be "inconclusive."

But you claim to have other knowledge. Knowledge beyond that of the FBI. So please enlighten us.

What factual evidence do you have? Maybe Kenith Star went easy on Clinton. Is that what you think?

boont


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:03 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.