Annuities Investigation on Dateline this Sunday

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They mentioned Financial Playbook magazine in the piece. Here is their web site making mention of the "magazine"~Financial Playbook Magazine - Home

Pretty good expose of EIAs and all of the tricks that they include, including a 16% commission for that [-]scumbag, sonofabitch, sleazebag, douchebag, guy [/-]agent representing Allianz Insurance in the yellow, then red, shirt. I almost thought that they would arrest the agent like they do outside the house on "To catch a Predator".


We recently have discovered that Chris Hansen from Dateline NBC has attempted to create his own unique publication through us, posing as a financial professional. Our team caught on to this and promptly canceled his order, refunding Dateline's money 100%. We have NOT shipped any product to him, so what you may have seen on Dateline is actually just a mock-up proof of an order that was never completed, nor paid for (they won't ever mention this to you because it doesn't help their ratings). It is apparent that Dateline's purpose of an upcoming episode is to smear our good name just as they would like to smear the good names of our clients.
 
ArtG should be along tomorrow to tell us what wonderful folks these salespeople are.

I think selling annuities must be easy because there's even people on this forum that want to buy them.

Maybe I'll do it part time. NOT!
 
ArtG should be along tomorrow to tell us what wonderful folks these salespeople are.

I saw the TV program. From what I saw the sales guys were just well meaning folks who were terribly misunderstood. As each carefully pointed out, Dateline didn't allow them to complete their sales pitch. Before being interrupted they were going to fully explain the details of how the annuity worked, including the fees, 16% surrender penalty, etc. :)
 
They mentioned Financial Playbook magazine in the piece. Here is their web site making mention of the "magazine"~Financial Playbook Magazine - Home

Pretty good expose of EIAs and all of the tricks that they include, including a 16% commission for that [-]scumbag, sonofabitch, sleazebag, douchebag, guy [/-]agent representing Allianz Insurance in the yellow, then red, shirt. I almost thought that they would arrest the agent like they do outside the house on "To catch a Predator".

Arrest them for what. They did nothing wrong. Seems like a non-story to me.
 
ArtG should be along tomorrow to tell us what wonderful folks these salespeople are.

I think selling annuities must be easy because there's even people on this forum that want to buy them.

\!

Perhaps it's because not all of them are bad? I know it might be hard for you to imagine but for many people there are annuity products that make sense.
 
I don't know where to begin...........:( All I can say is that an EIA makes a VA look good by comparison...........:)
 
ArtG should be along tomorrow to tell us what wonderful folks these salespeople are.

I think selling annuities must be easy because there's even people on this forum that want to buy them.

Maybe I'll do it part time. NOT!

Interesting that guys like Art G and I have VILLIFIED EIAs but noone seems to notice........:rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D
 
Interesting that guys like Art G and I have VILLIFIED EIAs but noone seems to notice........:rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D

EIAs are killers.... and anybody who would sell some 70 yo an investment product that would tie up your money for 16 years SHOULD be arrested...

Now... they actually DID have a guy on the show who said HE would not recommend this product at all... and they did point out that there were many reputable sales people...

But the one guy had a huge 3 ring binder of all his 'certificates'... certified senior adviser, certified IRA distribution adviser... etc. etc. etc... made me sick...
 
My next career goal was to become a marketing executive for a tobacco company, but now I am thinking that annuity salesman, maybe a better way of expressing my evil Catbert side.
 
please dont tell my mom im an annuity salesman,,,,, she thinks im a piano player in a whorehouse
 
I got bored with the show quickly.

It basically showed insurance salesman looking like the stereotypical used car salesman. It does seem that the industry needs a little bit of regulation. I doubt that would ever happen though.
 
I hear Dateline NBC has a blockbuster expose in the works, tentatively titled "To Catch an Annuity Predator". They plan to lure internet child sexual predators who work as insurance salesmen and catch them in the nude, attempting to sell an EIA to a 10 year old.

EDIT to add disclaimer: FinanceDude is NOT acting as a consultant in the filming of this expose.
 
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I think selling annuities must be easy because there's even people on this forum that want to buy them.

Maybe I'll do it part time. NOT!

Hey, you weren't using that soul, anyway.

>:D
 
So let me get this straight. These salesmen are using fear to sell a product, while focusing on the positive aspects and downplaying the negatives?

Uhm..... so what?

How is this any different from any other salesman? Does a new car salesman ask me if I really need a new car, or if I should maybe stick with the one I already have for a few more years? Does a clothing salesman tell me my current t-shirt looks fine, and I probably don't really need that $200 Armani shirt I'm looking at?

In the end, the salesmen did all divulge the information. Both verbally, and in the brochures. Anyone would would hand over hundreds of thousands of dollars without doing at least a little reading is ... well, just how far are we supposed to go to protect people from themselves?

This seems like a real non-story to me. The entire theme of the article was "Your money is locked in for years. That's bad." So what? That's what an annuity is. They also hand it over to you over a period of several years, giving you a guaranteed income stream. Some people are willing to pay a little extra for that kind of piece of mind.

If you're worried you might need access to a large lump-sum for some reason down the road, then why would you put your entire nest egg into a locked-in investment like this? Why wouldn't you keep some set aside for big, one-time expenses?

I found it an extremely poorly-balanced article.
 
I hear Dateline NBC has a blockbuster expose in the works, tentatively titled "To Catch an Annuity Predator". They plan to lure internet child sexual predators who work as insurance salesmen and catch them in the nude, attempting to sell an EIA to a 10 year old.

EDIT to add disclaimer: FinanceDude is NOT acting as a consultant in the filming of this expose.

I hear that they both bring wine and condoms:p That might be enough to bring Stoned Phillips out of FIRE...:angel:
 
In the end, the salesmen did all divulge the information. Both verbally, and in the brochures. Anyone would would hand over hundreds of thousands of dollars without doing at least a little reading is ... well, just how far are we supposed to go to protect people from themselves?

This seems like a real non-story to me. The entire theme of the article was "Your money is locked in for years. That's bad." So what? That's what an annuity is. They also hand it over to you over a period of several years, giving you a guaranteed income stream. Some people are willing to pay a little extra for that kind of piece of mind.

If you're worried you might need access to a large lump-sum for some reason down the road, then why would you put your entire nest egg into a locked-in investment like this? Why wouldn't you keep some set aside for big, one-time expenses?

Kombat, it's not about protecting people from themselves, it's about protecting vulnerable people from over-reaching and unethical salespeople who will go as far as the law allows them (and sometimes farther) to rip people off.

Consider this....what if a salesperson sold a variable annunity to a senior citizen that had a 50% surrender charge in the first year, would you say that was ok, so long as the surrender charge was printed somewhere on the document? What if it was 90%? Is there some point at which you would say the terms are just plain overreaching and wrong, regardless if it is disclosed? If your answer is no, then we simply disagree as a matter of public policy. If your answer is yes, then we agree that there should be some regulation to protect the more vulnerable and less sophisticated members of our society.
 
One interesting thing I would like to share: Most EIAs have NO choice for surrender charge length, while nearly ALL VAs do..........
 
I was disappointed in the show...

To me, there were no gotcha' moments. The closest was the fact that insurance salespersons can get their photo onto a publication with a ghost written article.

All of the filmed insurance agents disclosed there was some type of surrender charge, etc.

But, I am extremely cynical about everyone and want to double check everything that I am told....I was expecting outright lies, or outlandish statements - and I did not see that.

(Ok - there was the FDIC is rated "F-" in a restaurant - that was ridiculous)
 
FDIC is underfunded, but how do we know Allianz ISN'T underfunded:confused: :)
 
I take it from the posts that I've read here that most of you are in the securities business. Stockbrokers, etc. Several comments brag that VA are a better choice. Here's a couple of questions:

1) While most of these EIA annuities pay a pretty decent one-time commission (5 to 8%), how does this compare to the average hidden fees consumers unknowingly pay that are a part of Variable Annuities (2 to 4% annually)? How does the one-time 5 to 8% commission compare to the average ongoing annual 1.5% trail earned by the average broker on an typical account? (plus round-trip commissions on every trade)

2) Everbody's making a big stink about the surrender charges. These annuities have always been long-term products, and any 'agent' who misleads or hides the surrender charge should lose his license. However, there is a positive side to them as well. At least with an EIA, the client has the ability to know up front what his costs are. He knows FOR SURE what his account will be worth next year. Why do 10 year CDs pay more interest than a money market fund? Because the money market fund is charging the client for the liquidity that is part of the MM account. No one would go with a ten year CD if they're also looking for check-writing privileges. How many folks have a big chunk of money they don't need, but instead of a ten year CD, they take 6 month CDs and roll them every 6 months. They are paying for liquidity (through reduced interest rates) just in case they might need the money for something! The point is this: if you need access to 100% of your money... 100% of the time, an annuity is a very poor choice. Most of these products do allow for 10% annual withdrawal without penalty, and more relaxed liquidity in the case of a terminal illness diagnosis, nursing home confinement, and other scenarios. This is more than enough liquidity for most folks.

Why pay for liquidity that you don't need? Those who decide to take more than the 10% out will pay a cost for that liquidity. It's their choice and they know the costs up front... (assuming an honest agent sold it to them)

3) In addition, what they failed to mention on Dateline is that most of the products they were talking about also paid the client an up-front 10% bonus to move their money. Then the client decides it was a bad idea a year later and wants to surrender the entire contract. 20% surrender charges apply, but it's pretty clear to see that half of that penalty is simply the company recouping their 10% bonus! Realistically, the worst that these surrender charges get is a net 10% penalty.

How many of your clients ever suffered a 10% loss? Was that loss voluntary or involuntary?

How many older folks do you know who hung on through the last bear market 2000 to 2002 while their broker convinced them to 'hang in there... the market always comes back"? How many of your clients hung in there and lost 48% of their nest egg following your buy and hold advice?

How many of your older clients holding a big bond portfolio lost 20% in principal value when interest rates went the wrong way? I'm sure they thought that bonds were 'safe'...

The fact is that the S&P has returned about 12% over time, yet Dalbar studies prove time after time that the average mutual fund investor sees only a 4% average annual return due to fees, expenses, trading costs and the #1 biggy... buying high while chasing performance and then selling low. Most investors would be waaaay better off if they fired their brokers and simply invested in the S&P500 for 18 basis points and forgot about it. For older folks who don't have the time to make up for 20 or 30% market losses, other alternatives are available.

For those in retirement or getting close, these annuities offer some stability and peace of mind that is not available from your local stockbroker who simply wants the client to stay invested no matter what. Many of these older clients like the fact that this nest egg of theirs will never go down in value, but only UP. You see, they no longer have the time to make up for losses than invariably comes with market volitility. They like ther fact that they can turn this nest egg into an income for life that they will never outlive... and without giving up control of the money!

Bottomline is this: there are unscrupulous, loser salespeople in every industry. That doesn't make every stockbroker, insurance broker or used car dealer a crook. And we all realize (I hope) that any media coverage of ANY issue is going to be biased or bent to satisfy their agenda. No one tells both sides of the issue any more.
 
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